King’s Lynn Stars vs Belle Vue Aces - Premiership - Mon 31/3/25

[Arch Stanton]

3 minutes ago, ArseBellEnd said:

🤔

You ok there?

[Bagpuss]

Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. 

[Aries]

9 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. 

Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. 

Edited Wednesday at 07:57 AM by Aries

[ArseBellEnd]

30 minutes ago, Arch Stanton said:

You ok there?

I'm Ace ♣️🔔🔚

[TTT]

11 minutes ago, Aries said:

Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. 

True, Would only work if a club covered the riders travel costs on the night but then that's more money a club would have to pay out on a weekly basis for a rider who more than likely won't take any part in the meeting.

[Aries]

12 minutes ago, ArseBellEnd said:

I'm Ace ♣️🔔🔚

Gone a bit over my head there. You and AceBelle one and the same?

[Bagpuss]

39 minutes ago, Aries said:

Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. 

I reckon you could make it work by giving the two number eights some match races before/during/after the meeting and the experience of them being around some world class riders in the pits and on the track walk for the evening would be invaluable. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be the same number 8 every week, could just be two local nominated riders. It's got to be better than the alternatives. 

[ArseBellEnd]

13 minutes ago, Aries said:

Gone a bit over my head there. You and AceBelle one and the same?

Let's say we're Bells 🔔 🔔 from the same pack ♣️

[Aries]

9 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I reckon you could make it work by giving the two number eights some match races before/during/after the meeting and the experience of them being around some world class riders in the pits and on the track walk for the evening would be invaluable. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be the same number 8 every week, could just be two local nominated riders. It's got to be better than the alternatives. 

Fair point. There’s plenty of youngsters still on the rising star list that would I’m sure be grateful of that experience. The more you think about it the more it makes sense. 

[ouch]

2 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. 

Belle Vue always take a number 8 if we have to run R/R and there’s plenty of other times we have a Colt along for the ride, usually spannering for an Ace. We did propose several season ago that number 8’s should be standard at all meeting but it was knocked back due to the fact that many top flight clubs don’t engage with the junior process. 

A number 8 at the meeting link I posted earlier would have meant heat eight going ahead with the full four riders instead of just the three as was the case.

[foreverblue]

12 minutes ago, ouch said:

Belle Vue always take a number 8 if we have to run R/R and there’s plenty of other times we have a Colt along for the ride, usually spannering for an Ace. We did propose several season ago that number 8’s should be standard at all meeting but it was knocked back due to the fact that many top flight clubs don’t engage with the junior process. 

A number 8 at the meeting link I posted earlier would have meant heat eight going ahead with the full four riders instead of just the three as was the case.

Heat 8 started with four riders.

[stevebrum]

On 4/1/2025 at 2:12 PM, SUPERACE said:

With a high scoring number 1 Harris wouldn't be a reserve has he wouldn't fit. 

Well yeah, but that’s why he is a high scoring reserve right now.

23 hours ago, bigcatdiary said:

Harris rode twice at no 7 in July 2021 once at home and once away at Sheffield where he scored paid 17.

I thought as much as well. 

[Roger Jacobs]

On 4/1/2025 at 7:40 PM, Rickyag said:

I maybe incorrect but I believe Bomber never rode at reserve all season for Peterborough, although it looked it maybe doing but didn`t. I believe it was Anderson, Nicholls, Pedersen and Ostergaard.

Harris was at Reserve in July 2021:

https://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/20242/belle-vue-premiership-19-2021

It turns out the Panthers only rode a couple of matches that month - the other one was at Sheffield, and Harris scored 16+1 from 7 rides (including a Retirement in his second ride).

Edited Wednesday at 07:56 PM by Roger Jacobs

[Roger Jacobs]

On 4/1/2025 at 6:41 PM, Daniel Smith said:

Think there's a misunderstanding of what Aries is saying. Harris is just an example.

The point being, if a 'Rising Star' gets injured, should the No6 be allowed to take the remaining rides?

Take this as an example.

King's Lynn make the Play-Off Final and are 10-12 points down after the first leg. I'd take a tactical fall from the No7 in heat 2 & withdraw them, which allows the No6 to have 7 rides.

Is it right that the No6 could score 9 points from the No7 rides under the current 'Rising Star' format?

For me, either have a No8 available, or go with 3 riders only for 1 or 2 heats.

The reserve position is wide open to some serious manipulation. 

But it hasn't happened, has it ...?

Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but  how desperate are teams to do that ...

[Roger Jacobs]

On 4/1/2025 at 8:12 PM, Arthur54 said:

Won a GP in Denmark, would definitely been world champion, if injury hadn't cut his career short 

You can't say "definitely" - because we will never know.  Billy Sanders would definitely have won the World Championship if he hadn't lost one race to Egon Muller - and there are so many examples of what could definitely have happened.

[89buttons]

10 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

You can't say "definitely" - because we will never know.  Billy Sanders would definitely have won the World Championship if he hadn't lost one race to Egon Muller - and there are so many examples of what could definitely have happened.

Dave Jessop was 2-3 engine failures from being a multiple world champion wasn’t he? Before my time but that’s the story me old chap told me

[szkocjasid]

13 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

But it hasn't happened, has it ...?

Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but  how desperate are teams to do that ...

Yeah, I'm not sure why such a fuss is being made here. Even before the rising star rule was introduced, anytime a weaker reserve got injured before completing 3 rides his team benefits. It doesn't happen often enough for their to be any conspiracy about cheating imo, plus like you say, they need to be signed off by a doctor.

[Daniel Smith]

13 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said:

But it hasn't happened, has it ...?

Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but  how desperate are teams to do that ...

 

15 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

Yeah, I'm not sure why such a fuss is being made here. Even before the rising star rule was introduced, anytime a weaker reserve got injured before completing 3 rides his team benefits. It doesn't happen often enough for their to be any conspiracy about cheating imo, plus like you say, they need to be signed off by a doctor.

What are we doing here??

So because it hasn't happened it should be ignored??

It's a massive massive loophole someone CAN (and I would as a team manager) take advantage of in a very important situation i.e. the Play-Off Final as an example. 

[Arch Stanton]

28 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

 

What are we doing here??

So because it hasn't happened it should be ignored??

It's a massive massive loophole someone CAN (and I would as a team manager) take advantage of in a very important situation i.e. the Play-Off Final as an example. 

Couldn’t have said it better myself. 

[Arch Stanton]

I’ll throw my hat in the ring to the “best rider never to win the world championship”. Dennis Sigalos. When Penhall retired he was THE biggest threat to the Danish dominance. beat Nielsen in the 82 British Open run off for the biggest financial pay out in history at the time. Was a world class field reminiscent of the world final. Topped the British averages just shy of 11.00 in 83 and had the world at his feet. 
 

A fantastic write up here of Siggy. A crying shame that ankle injury ended his career and of course, we’ll never know. In my childhood eyes in the early 80’s though, the 🐐
 

https://vojensspeedwaycenter.dk/en/speedway-legenderne-dennis-sigalos/

Edited 13 hours ago by Arch Stanton