Arch Stanton Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 7:33 AM, ArseBellEnd said: 🤔 Expand You ok there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 (edited) On 4/2/2025 at 7:47 AM, Bagpuss said: Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. Expand Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. Edited April 2 by Aries 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArseBellEnd Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 7:37 AM, Arch Stanton said: You ok there? Expand I'm Ace ♣️🔔🔚 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 7:53 AM, Aries said: Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. Expand True, Would only work if a club covered the riders travel costs on the night but then that's more money a club would have to pay out on a weekly basis for a rider who more than likely won't take any part in the meeting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 8:08 AM, ArseBellEnd said: I'm Ace ♣️🔔🔚 Expand Gone a bit over my head there. You and AceBelle one and the same? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 7:53 AM, Aries said: Great idea about a number 8. Far better than my idea of allowing the opposition to also swap their rising star. The only issue with that is having a rider travel with equipment whilst not likely to get a ride. Expand I reckon you could make it work by giving the two number eights some match races before/during/after the meeting and the experience of them being around some world class riders in the pits and on the track walk for the evening would be invaluable. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be the same number 8 every week, could just be two local nominated riders. It's got to be better than the alternatives. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArseBellEnd Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 8:21 AM, Aries said: Gone a bit over my head there. You and AceBelle one and the same? Expand Let's say we're Bells 🔔 🔔 from the same pack ♣️ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aries Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 8:35 AM, Bagpuss said: I reckon you could make it work by giving the two number eights some match races before/during/after the meeting and the experience of them being around some world class riders in the pits and on the track walk for the evening would be invaluable. It wouldn't even necessarily need to be the same number 8 every week, could just be two local nominated riders. It's got to be better than the alternatives. Expand Fair point. There’s plenty of youngsters still on the rising star list that would I’m sure be grateful of that experience. The more you think about it the more it makes sense. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 7:47 AM, Bagpuss said: Amongst all the garbage on this thread a very good point was raised about a Rising Star withdrawing through injury. As has been said its ripe for manipulation, I'd have thought the best solution would be to have a number 8 on hand to take any remaining rides of the minimum three that the RS would have had to take including the obligatory heat 8. I don't think it's fair for the other reserve to take heat 8 really. Expand Belle Vue always take a number 8 if we have to run R/R and there’s plenty of other times we have a Colt along for the ride, usually spannering for an Ace. We did propose several season ago that number 8’s should be standard at all meeting but it was knocked back due to the fact that many top flight clubs don’t engage with the junior process. A number 8 at the meeting link I posted earlier would have meant heat eight going ahead with the full four riders instead of just the three as was the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/2/2025 at 9:57 AM, ouch said: Belle Vue always take a number 8 if we have to run R/R and there’s plenty of other times we have a Colt along for the ride, usually spannering for an Ace. We did propose several season ago that number 8’s should be standard at all meeting but it was knocked back due to the fact that many top flight clubs don’t engage with the junior process. A number 8 at the meeting link I posted earlier would have meant heat eight going ahead with the full four riders instead of just the three as was the case. Expand Heat 8 started with four riders. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/1/2025 at 1:12 PM, SUPERACE said: With a high scoring number 1 Harris wouldn't be a reserve has he wouldn't fit. Expand Well yeah, but that’s why he is a high scoring reserve right now. On 4/1/2025 at 7:18 PM, bigcatdiary said: Harris rode twice at no 7 in July 2021 once at home and once away at Sheffield where he scored paid 17. Expand I thought as much as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 (edited) On 4/1/2025 at 6:40 PM, Rickyag said: I maybe incorrect but I believe Bomber never rode at reserve all season for Peterborough, although it looked it maybe doing but didn`t. I believe it was Anderson, Nicholls, Pedersen and Ostergaard. Expand Harris was at Reserve in July 2021: https://speedwayupdates.proboards.com/thread/20242/belle-vue-premiership-19-2021 It turns out the Panthers only rode a couple of matches that month - the other one was at Sheffield, and Harris scored 16+1 from 7 rides (including a Retirement in his second ride). Edited April 2 by Roger Jacobs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/1/2025 at 5:41 PM, Daniel Smith said: Think there's a misunderstanding of what Aries is saying. Harris is just an example. The point being, if a 'Rising Star' gets injured, should the No6 be allowed to take the remaining rides? Take this as an example. King's Lynn make the Play-Off Final and are 10-12 points down after the first leg. I'd take a tactical fall from the No7 in heat 2 & withdraw them, which allows the No6 to have 7 rides. Is it right that the No6 could score 9 points from the No7 rides under the current 'Rising Star' format? For me, either have a No8 available, or go with 3 riders only for 1 or 2 heats. The reserve position is wide open to some serious manipulation. Expand But it hasn't happened, has it ...? Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but how desperate are teams to do that ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted April 2 Report Share Posted April 2 On 4/1/2025 at 7:12 PM, Arthur54 said: Won a GP in Denmark, would definitely been world champion, if injury hadn't cut his career short Expand You can't say "definitely" - because we will never know. Billy Sanders would definitely have won the World Championship if he hadn't lost one race to Egon Muller - and there are so many examples of what could definitely have happened. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
89buttons Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 On 4/2/2025 at 8:10 PM, Roger Jacobs said: You can't say "definitely" - because we will never know. Billy Sanders would definitely have won the World Championship if he hadn't lost one race to Egon Muller - and there are so many examples of what could definitely have happened. Expand Dave Jessop was 2-3 engine failures from being a multiple world champion wasn’t he? Before my time but that’s the story me old chap told me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 On 4/2/2025 at 8:01 PM, Roger Jacobs said: But it hasn't happened, has it ...? Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but how desperate are teams to do that ... Expand Yeah, I'm not sure why such a fuss is being made here. Even before the rising star rule was introduced, anytime a weaker reserve got injured before completing 3 rides his team benefits. It doesn't happen often enough for their to be any conspiracy about cheating imo, plus like you say, they need to be signed off by a doctor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 On 4/2/2025 at 8:01 PM, Roger Jacobs said: But it hasn't happened, has it ...? Any rider has to be signed-off by the track doctor to be able to withdraw from a meeting. I guess it's possible a RS could be persuaded to pretend they are injured, but how desperate are teams to do that ... Expand On 4/3/2025 at 9:08 AM, szkocjasid said: Yeah, I'm not sure why such a fuss is being made here. Even before the rising star rule was introduced, anytime a weaker reserve got injured before completing 3 rides his team benefits. It doesn't happen often enough for their to be any conspiracy about cheating imo, plus like you say, they need to be signed off by a doctor. Expand What are we doing here?? So because it hasn't happened it should be ignored?? It's a massive massive loophole someone CAN (and I would as a team manager) take advantage of in a very important situation i.e. the Play-Off Final as an example. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 On 4/3/2025 at 9:30 AM, Daniel Smith said: What are we doing here?? So because it hasn't happened it should be ignored?? It's a massive massive loophole someone CAN (and I would as a team manager) take advantage of in a very important situation i.e. the Play-Off Final as an example. Expand Couldn’t have said it better myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arch Stanton Posted April 3 Report Share Posted April 3 (edited) I’ll throw my hat in the ring to the “best rider never to win the world championship”. Dennis Sigalos. When Penhall retired he was THE biggest threat to the Danish dominance. beat Nielsen in the 82 British Open run off for the biggest financial pay out in history at the time. Was a world class field reminiscent of the world final. Topped the British averages just shy of 11.00 in 83 and had the world at his feet. A fantastic write up here of Siggy. A crying shame that ankle injury ended his career and of course, we’ll never know. In my childhood eyes in the early 80’s though, the 🐐 https://vojensspeedwaycenter.dk/en/speedway-legenderne-dennis-sigalos/ Edited April 3 by Arch Stanton 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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