Two National Leagues in 25

[Islander15]

2 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

Would've preferred 6 man teams (5 rides each). Also a tad surprised Kent didn't enter both competitions. Wonder what the plan is if Lynn don't enter, will a league team go into the trophy? 

Delighted that riders will get more fixtures, well done to all the teams taking part, especially Championship ones as this fills sone blank dates in the fixture list.

Presumably clubs can’t compete in both as then there would become a rider clash. 

Presumably the NL will be the only form that will work towards averages and those points scored in the NT in effect won’t count towards any averages. 

[TheSmiler]

5 hours ago, Bert said:

Surely providing more competitive track time to youngsters is far more important than wondering how the averages is going to be calculated !

Just a wondering thought dude, no need to snap. 😊 

[szkocjasid]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

With respect I think you're all missing the point

The existing Teams in the NDL were happy with the exact format they had and didn't want any more meetings (can't imagine oxford could have handled any as an example)

THIS IS WHY THERE IS A LEAGUE and a TROPHY

Those in the LEAGUE did not stand in the way though of NEW entrants provided they had a separate competition...hence the TROPHY

It benefits RIDERS as they can ride for a LEAGUE team and a TROPHY TEAM so get more rides.

There is no option for any Team to ride in both!

I'll disagree, there is an option to ride in both if another club assisted them?

For example if Kent said, "we'd like to ride in both competitions to make it more worth our while, we don't want to rent a stadium for only 4 meetings a season" what's to stop Oxford for example saying, "ok in that case we'll go in the Trophy & you can take our place in the league"

Maybe they didn't ask, maybe no current team thought to offer. All they would've been doing is replacing 5 home league matches for 5 home trophy matches, helping Kent & giving riders more matches.

For the sake of new stand-alone teams etc I'd like to believe such a scenario would be a possibility.

[szkocjasid]

1 hour ago, Islander15 said:

Presumably clubs can’t compete in both as then there would become a rider clash. 

Presumably the NL will be the only form that will work towards averages and those points scored in the NT in effect won’t count towards any averages. 

My idea would be riders racing for Kent in the league would also race for Kent in the trophy, so no clashing of riders.

Imagine if Cairns made his debut in the trophy only & guested 3 times in the league, he'd be starting on a 3.00 average this season (if only league matches count).

[arnieg]

8 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

My idea would be riders racing for Kent in the league would also race for Kent in the trophy, so no clashing of riders.

Imagine if Cairns made his debut in the trophy only & guested 3 times in the league, he'd be starting on a 3.00 average this season (if only league matches count).

I suspect Kentbourne wanted a 'short' season and were happy with this arrangement. Had they (or Mildenhall) wanted a longer season  they could probably have reconfigured the set up to accommodate them.

[HGould]

8 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

I'll disagree, there is an option to ride in both if another club assisted them?

For example if Kent said, "we'd like to ride in both competitions to make it more worth our while, we don't want to rent a stadium for only 4 meetings a season" what's to stop Oxford for example saying, "ok in that case we'll go in the Trophy & you can take our place in the league"

Maybe they didn't ask, maybe no current team thought to offer. All they would've been doing is replacing 5 home league matches for 5 home trophy matches, helping Kent & giving riders more matches.

For the sake of new stand-alone teams etc I'd like to believe such a scenario would be a possibility.

I think ArnieG may be right (lower down).

I suspect Iwade Track, that runs NORA and a lot of Amateur Events may not want to be running too many Kent Fixtures, especially after the issues they had with BSPL in 2022.

May be too they want to see how a collaboration of 2 previously rival Clubs (Kent and Eastbourne) works in reality.

Better to make an assessment on 5 fixtures than 10 if it's not profitable or just breaks even, although on NDL pay rates and the supporter pool of both Clubs, they should have no trouble attracting at least 500 on a regualr basis you'd think.

Good luck to them and hopefully this time they won't be impacted by petty BSPL attitude like Si Kellow was.

[szkocjasid]

Quick glance at the averages, Belle Vue had the highest team average at the end of the season, if they dropped Hagon (no longer eligible) for Shimelt, they'd still be 3 points over the limit.

I wonder if some higher averaged riders may ride for one team & lower averaged riders find it easier to race for 2 clubs?

[IronScorpion]

17 hours ago, robolots said:

Why didn't they do a north south divide?

Would make more sense for travelling-but hey ho this is speedway

Because riders are not based in a north/south divide but travel the length & breadth of the country to get rides.

[IronScorpion]

What happened to the junior meetings that were supposed to take place after the Premiership meetings? I did not hear much going on!

[Islander15]

12 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

My idea would be riders racing for Kent in the league would also race for Kent in the trophy, so no clashing of riders.

Imagine if Cairns made his debut in the trophy only & guested 3 times in the league, he'd be starting on a 3.00 average this season (if only league matches count).

Which is what used to happen with the Trophy and the League. But they seem to want to run it as 2 separate but simultaneous competitions. 

[Sings4Speedway]

Previously the trophy was for teams that were already in the league that wanted extra fixtures. Now the current league setup has said 6 teams is enough with regards to rider availability and fixtures and if anyone else wants to play they have to join a separate competition and wait to be invited into the league if a place becomes available in the future. 

The league is already losing a few notable names and was already bolstered this year by hobby riders who were/are happy with a shortened fixture list. There will be plenty next season who only want a place in one of the competitions and only really those who have aspirations beyond NDL level will be looking for places in both.

[Sings4Speedway]

Averages are of course a nightmare in this situation and in no way have they been considered barring initial year 1 team building.

To have any credibility each league should have its own rider averages that are used for team building moving forward. For a start there is a good chance the levels could be quite different so a rider could average 8 in the trophy and 5 in the NDL. 

Then there is the other examples. New rider in the trophy signs on a 3, ends season on a 9. The following season he looks for a spot in the League competition too does he sign on as a 3 or a 9? With such short seasons averages won't be calculated more than twice during the trophy season anyway. 

The concept of allowing teams extra fixtures and a way into the sport is sound enough but as ever massively hashed together with very little consideration of where the product should be moving forward.

[KK62]

Whilst this may look like an opportunity for more track time for NDL standard riders it looks to me to be another sticking plaster approach just like the promised ‘ more opportunities via individual meetings’ that they said would happen in 2024. The fact was that only three/ four of those meetings actually took place. Whilst we don't know the full make up of teams yet, the fact that they expect riders to double up sets the alarm bells ringing. Some of these NDL riders who appeared in 2024 will not be riding next season for reasons of ‘too good’, retired or simply cant afford it with the new silencers and rev limiters being required  ( about £600 to be found per bike ). So already the SIX NDL sides are hunting for riders , some for two or even three . Yes, theres a couple of 15 year olds to come in , but not loads so just where do the rest of them come from ? The TROPHY sides need to find riders willing to ride and also willing to ride mid week and travel , they might yet struggle to find enough riders willing to double up as the rumoured pay rates will not attract riders who hold down a full time job. Fixture planning needs to be very carefully thought through. 

Is there a long term plan attached to this idea ? Will current NDL riders be cueing up to get in a Trophy side ?

Let’s hope it thrives…….time will tell.

[IronScorpion]

2 hours ago, KK62 said:

Whilst this may look like an opportunity for more track time for NDL standard riders it looks to me to be another sticking plaster approach just like the promised ‘ more opportunities via individual meetings’ that they said would happen in 2024. The fact was that only three/ four of those meetings actually took place. Whilst we don't know the full make up of teams yet, the fact that they expect riders to double up sets the alarm bells ringing. Some of these NDL riders who appeared in 2024 will not be riding next season for reasons of ‘too good’, retired or simply cant afford it with the new silencers and rev limiters being required  ( about £600 to be found per bike ). So already the SIX NDL sides are hunting for riders , some for two or even three . Yes, theres a couple of 15 year olds to come in , but not loads so just where do the rest of them come from ? The TROPHY sides need to find riders willing to ride and also willing to ride mid week and travel , they might yet struggle to find enough riders willing to double up as the rumoured pay rates will not attract riders who hold down a full time job. Fixture planning needs to be very carefully thought through. 

Is there a long term plan attached to this idea ? Will current NDL riders be cueing up to get in a Trophy side ?

Let’s hope it thrives…….time will tell.

Is this new regulations this year across all 3 leagues or just tied to National League as I have not seen it anywhere else?

I think there are 5 or 6 silencers to choose from in the 24 reg's & going by performance of the transponders used this last year, they were of a cheaper option & not as good as used abroad.

[Paulbooth]

5 minutes ago, IronScorpion said:

Is this new regulations this year across all 3 leagues or just tied to National League as I have not seen it anywhere else?

I think there are 5 or 6 silencers to choose from in the 24 reg's & going by performance of the transponders used this last year, they were of a cheaper option & not as good as used abroad.

https://www.scbgb.co.uk/news.php?extend.191

[Sargent10]

3 hours ago, KK62 said:

Whilst this may look like an opportunity for more track time for NDL standard riders it looks to me to be another sticking plaster approach just like the promised ‘ more opportunities via individual meetings’ that they said would happen in 2024. The fact was that only three/ four of those meetings actually took place. Whilst we don't know the full make up of teams yet, the fact that they expect riders to double up sets the alarm bells ringing. Some of these NDL riders who appeared in 2024 will not be riding next season for reasons of ‘too good’, retired or simply cant afford it with the new silencers and rev limiters being required  ( about £600 to be found per bike ). So already the SIX NDL sides are hunting for riders , some for two or even three . Yes, theres a couple of 15 year olds to come in , but not loads so just where do the rest of them come from ? The TROPHY sides need to find riders willing to ride and also willing to ride mid week and travel , they might yet struggle to find enough riders willing to double up as the rumoured pay rates will not attract riders who hold down a full time job. Fixture planning needs to be very carefully thought through. 

Is there a long term plan attached to this idea ? Will current NDL riders be cueing up to get in a Trophy side ?

Let’s hope it thrives…….time will tell.

The added cost of the silencers rev limiters will undoubtedly increase the chances of riders saying thanks but no thanks, especially when they find out how much money the clubs are allowed to pay, I hope I’m wrong but it’s certainly not getting riders queuing up to ride, you only have to look at how many don’t enter amateur meetings anymore for prove of that.

[phillwhitewasmad]

4 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Previously the trophy was for teams that were already in the league that wanted extra fixtures. Now the current league setup has said 6 teams is enough with regards to rider availability and fixtures and if anyone else wants to play they have to join a separate competition and wait to be invited into the league if a place becomes available in the future. 

The league is already losing a few notable names and was already bolstered this year by hobby riders who were/are happy with a shortened fixture list. There will be plenty next season who only want a place in one of the competitions and only really those who have aspirations beyond NDL level will be looking for places in both.

Which notable names are leaving I'm intrigued to know

[phillwhitewasmad]

Don't get the debate about limiters and silencers it was put out in July this year and won't be needed till April next year surely any rider wanting to progress will of started to get the funds together already for this. And in reality lots of riders may not need exhaust as long as they are no older than 2022 on the point of limiters this has been on the back burner for years so isn't totally unexpected.

rules are rules no point whining about it let's just go with it

[MillenTheVillen]

49 minutes ago, Sargent10 said:

The added cost of the silencers rev limiters will undoubtedly increase the chances of riders saying thanks but no thanks, especially when they find out how much money the clubs are allowed to pay, I hope I’m wrong but it’s certainly not getting riders queuing up to ride, you only have to look at how many don’t enter amateur meetings anymore for prove of that.

The added cost won't stop those wanting to progress, everyone knew these rules were coming and had plenty time to adjust to them, as for how much Clubs are allowed to pay - that was brought in to stop those staying in NDL and topping their wages with big pay days, it also blocked riders coming into NDL.

 

There won't be a team not filled up at the start of the season regardless of silencers/limiters/wages and that's fact!

[Sargent10]

6 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Don't get the debate about limiters and silencers it was put out in July this year and won't be needed till April next year surely any rider wanting to progress will of started to get the funds together already for this. And in reality lots of riders may not need exhaust as long as they are no older than 2022 on the point of limiters this has been on the back burner for years so isn't totally unexpected.

rules are rules no point whining about it let's just go with it

You know full well pal the reality of riders wanting to progress fell on its arse a few years ago, look at how many young lads are no longer riding, regulation amongst other reasons is because of that, and the rev limiters is a joke, how many riders are up to 13,500 revs at any time especially NDL lads, Andy your right rules are rules but as pointed out lots of people it’s not helping youngsters continue.