All 7 Rising Stars announced - Friday 18 October

[Youhave2minutes]

7 minutes ago, Triple.H. said:

What happens if Jake Mulford has a great start to the season, doubling his average and becomes the darling of the Aces fans due to his all action style, how do they justify dropping him. Same at Poole where young Cairns is rumoured to be going.

They won’t drop him he will be promoted higher up in the team and another rider will drop down surely 

[Teromaafan]

Just taking stock of this whole RS thing. Trying to promote young British talent is just masking the fact that the sport in this country has failed to attract interest and sponsorship on a national scale for some time. Promoting the sport does not just attract spectators but has a knock affect for potential riders wanting to take up the sport. The RS system and protected heats (in the football world would equate to not allowed to tackle this player….come on!) reflect poorly from the outside for the top tier of this professional sport. The powers that be are kidding nobody. If the No.7s aren’t up to it, they should be competing at a lower level until they are ready (if ever) to compete. I’m all for giving youth a chance in any sport, but it if this RS system continues in this format, a few riders could decide to call it a day if their confidence is continually knocked through performances due to the positions they are put in. If there aren’t enough competitive riders to go round adopt 6 man teams? I took time out from speedway after the Lions demise in the early 80’s but always look back on the young talents of that era who weren’t wrapped in cotton wool and succeeded because of their ability. Michael Lee is the best example I can think of.

[szkocjasid]

32 minutes ago, Teromaafan said:

Just taking stock of this whole RS thing. Trying to promote young British talent is just masking the fact that the sport in this country has failed to attract interest and sponsorship on a national scale for some time. Promoting the sport does not just attract spectators but has a knock affect for potential riders wanting to take up the sport. The RS system and protected heats (in the football world would equate to not allowed to tackle this player….come on!) reflect poorly from the outside for the top tier of this professional sport. The powers that be are kidding nobody. If the No.7s aren’t up to it, they should be competing at a lower level until they are ready (if ever) to compete. I’m all for giving youth a chance in any sport, but it if this RS system continues in this format, a few riders could decide to call it a day if their confidence is continually knocked through performances due to the positions they are put in. If there aren’t enough competitive riders to go round adopt 6 man teams? I took time out from speedway after the Lions demise in the early 80’s but always look back on the young talents of that era who weren’t wrapped in cotton wool and succeeded because of their ability. Michael Lee is the best example I can think of.

But what about the Polish leagues, their clubs have to include 2 x Polish juniors in all divisions, seems to work very well for them if you look at their success at junior level.

The RS system is just a (much) smaller version of that. If anything this system should being riders on more as if they're good enough they'll move into the top 5 (Brennan, Rowe, Dan T for example). The Polish juniors stay at reserve all year.

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of riders, just wanting to give young Brits a chance.

[szkocjasid]

2 hours ago, Triple.H. said:

What happens if Jake Mulford has a great start to the season, doubling his average and becomes the darling of the Aces fans due to his all action style, how do they justify dropping him. Same at Poole where young Cairns is rumoured to be going.

For this reason I find it very surprising that Cairns has a Champ team lined up already. Why would any 2.00 rider sign for Poole, knowing they will be dropped?

In this case I don't think Mulford is one of the better "rising stars", so don't see him upping his average much. But even if he doesn't, will it be a risk putting Cairns in to the top division so early in his career?

[ouch]

46 minutes ago, Teromaafan said:

Just taking stock of this whole RS thing. Trying to promote young British talent is just masking the fact that the sport in this country has failed to attract interest and sponsorship on a national scale for some time. Promoting the sport does not just attract spectators but has a knock affect for potential riders wanting to take up the sport. The RS system and protected heats (in the football world would equate to not allowed to tackle this player….come on!) reflect poorly from the outside for the top tier of this professional sport. The powers that be are kidding nobody. If the No.7s aren’t up to it, they should be competing at a lower level until they are ready (if ever) to compete. I’m all for giving youth a chance in any sport, but it if this RS system continues in this format, a few riders could decide to call it a day if their confidence is continually knocked through performances due to the positions they are put in. If there aren’t enough competitive riders to go round adopt 6 man teams? I took time out from speedway after the Lions demise in the early 80’s but always look back on the young talents of that era who weren’t wrapped in cotton wool and succeeded because of their ability. Michael Lee is the best example I can think of.

Michael Lee is the only example I can think of.

[tyler42]

26 minutes ago, ouch said:

Michael Lee is the only example I can think of.

Andy Smith was thrown in at the deep end when 16. Mark Loram, Joe Screen same age. Sink or swim. They all went on to be great riders. We had Peter Schroeck saying the other day how Jody Scott is only 17 and he must protect him!! The three above riding when the top league was a lot harder than today.

[ouch]

11 minutes ago, tyler42 said:

Andy Smith was thrown in at the deep end when 16. Mark Loram, Joe Screen same age. Sink or swim. They all went on to be great riders. We had Peter Schroeck saying the other day how Jody Scott is only 17 and he must protect him!! The three above riding when the top league was a lot harder than today.

So pretty much one a decade. 
I think us fans put too much on these riders tbh. 

[Teromaafan]

32 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

But what about the Polish leagues, their clubs have to include 2 x Polish juniors in all divisions, seems to work very well for them if you look at their success at junior level.

The RS system is just a (much) smaller version of that. If anything this system should being riders on more as if they're good enough they'll move into the top 5 (Brennan, Rowe, Dan T for example). The Polish juniors stay at reserve all year.

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of riders, just wanting to give young Brits a chance.

Polish speedway? We’re talking about the UK here. Adopting the Poles approach ain’t the answer if the riders are not out there. The Poles have continually produced riders who improve because they are being attracted in to the sport which appears to be well run over there. Don’t tell me that the meteoric rise of Lambert and Bewley is down to British Speedway nurturing. These are riders are where they are through ability and determination to succeed where ever opportunities arise. The nearest we have to these guys is Tom Brennan (Woffy is on the countdown now). There is a big gap after Tom for the foreseeable.
 

[tyler42]

20 minutes ago, ouch said:

So pretty much one a decade. 
I think us fans put too much on these riders tbh. 

It's Different times I suppose. Throughout the 70s,80s and 90's we had young talent coming through by bucketloads, but that was because we had a great feeder program called grass track. Now we have kids starting out in the youth series under Neil Vatcher. They just progress through the ranks and ride against each and because of the lack of riders compared to yesteryear, they all get a team place in the NDL. They then progress into the CL and as we have witnessed this season, even in a very low standard CL they are not good enough. How many of the riders who made their debut over the last two season in the CL would you say have a bright future? Young Luke Harrison, Killeen, Dan Thompson Look the best contenders to me. Some of the others look so far out of their depth and wlll never make it. That is not their fault. It's the system.

[Trees]

4 hours ago, tyler42 said:

It's Different times I suppose. Throughout the 70s,80s and 90's we had young talent coming through by bucketloads, but that was because we had a great feeder program called grass track. Now we have kids starting out in the youth series under Neil Vatcher. They just progress through the ranks and ride against each and because of the lack of riders compared to yesteryear, they all get a team place in the NDL. They then progress into the CL and as we have witnessed this season, even in a very low standard CL they are not good enough. How many of the riders who made their debut over the last two season in the CL would you say have a bright future? Young Luke Harrison, Killeen, Dan Thompson Look the best contenders to me. Some of the others look so far out of their depth and wlll never make it. That is not their fault. It's the system.

There's a few more than that who show promise ....

[mikebv]

8 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

But what about the Polish leagues, their clubs have to include 2 x Polish juniors in all divisions, seems to work very well for them if you look at their success at junior level.

The RS system is just a (much) smaller version of that. If anything this system should being riders on more as if they're good enough they'll move into the top 5 (Brennan, Rowe, Dan T for example). The Polish juniors stay at reserve all year.

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of riders, just wanting to give young Brits a chance.

But they don't drag out the system to riders over 21, and don't "protect" heats to give them an advantage others don't get..

That is just contrived nonsense in a sporting context..

We now have "professional RS's" who year in, year out, take a slot but don't progress..

With many, "well behind", during races, which adds nothing to a speedway meeting..

Like a non league footballer  playing Premier League football and not being allowed to be taken off for 70 mins..

Just use the system in the 2nd tier and let the odd " next superstar", take a place on merit if good enough to compete eg Bewley,Lambert etc..

The gap is too big currently for them between the best riders at each meeting and themselves..

Which won't help them develop, and doesn't help what's on offer entertainment wise..

[89buttons]

8 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

But what about the Polish leagues, their clubs have to include 2 x Polish juniors in all divisions, seems to work very well for them if you look at their success at junior level.

The RS system is just a (much) smaller version of that. If anything this system should being riders on more as if they're good enough they'll move into the top 5 (Brennan, Rowe, Dan T for example). The Polish juniors stay at reserve all year.

I don't think it's anything to do with lack of riders, just wanting to give young Brits a chance.

How many of the world beating polish juniors have developed into top top riders tho? They get huge sponsorship and top notch coaching and equipment early which imo gives a false perspective of ability. 
 

the polish dominance at junior goes back a long way and very few have gone on to be top Grand Prix level riders where are the likes of drabik and smektala now, cierniak didn’t set it alight last season either.

And it goes way back to the likes of Robert miskowiak, karol zabik, Arthur mrozcka…

[arnieg]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

But they don't drag out the system to riders over 21, and don't "protect" heats to give them an advantage others don't get..

But the PZM identified this as a weakness in the Polish system and they came up with the under 24 league to give additional opportunities to 22 and 23 year olds.

The main  problem with our system is that it applies to the wrong league.

Edited Sunday at 08:05 AM by arnieg

[IainB]

2 hours ago, 89buttons said:

How many of the world beating polish juniors have developed into top top riders tho? They get huge sponsorship and top notch coaching and equipment early which imo gives a false perspective of ability. 
 

the polish dominance at junior goes back a long way and very few have gone on to be top Grand Prix level riders where are the likes of drabik and smektala now, cierniak didn’t set it alight last season either.

And it goes way back to the likes of Robert miskowiak, karol zabik, Arthur mrozcka…

It has made their league system sustainable though which is ideally, imo, what it should all be about. They're not "reliant" on foreign imports and double up/downers... Rising Star is perhaps not the name for the system, there are many ingredients that go into making a rider a "Star" many of which can't be taught and they won't find trailing around adrift at the back of every race... it should be Rising Journeyman as these types are the life blood of any sport. Stars for bums on seats, journeyman to keep the sport sustainable. 

Edited Sunday at 09:12 AM by IainB

[tyler42]

6 hours ago, 89buttons said:

How many of the world beating polish juniors have developed into top top riders tho? They get huge sponsorship and top notch coaching and equipment early which imo gives a false perspective of ability. 
 

the polish dominance at junior goes back a long way and very few have gone on to be top Grand Prix level riders where are the likes of drabik and smektala now, cierniak didn’t set it alight last season either.

And it goes way back to the likes of Robert miskowiak, karol zabik, Arthur mrozcka…

You are quite correct. The riders you mentioned have not gone on to be GP standard, but I would suggest all three ride in the hardest league in the world. Bar Bewley and Lambert, no other British rider is competing at that level. Of course you could say, " put them on a uk track and they would be pants" but the facts are they all ride in the main body of the team and don't if they are struggling get to drop back down to reserve. If they don’t perform they are then shipped off to the lower leagues. Out of interest, the Polish U24 league has a list of the top 100 riders. Young Aussie Keynan Rew is top. You have to go down to 35 Rowe, 38 Flint and 55 Giilkes https://ekstraliga.pl/en/se/classification-list/u24e/2024 

So the above British riders should surely be a lot higher up that list, due to riding in our top league?

[mc131]

19 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

For this reason I find it very surprising that Cairns has a Champ team lined up already. Why would any 2.00 rider sign for Poole, knowing they will be dropped?

In this case I don't think Mulford is one of the better "rising stars", so don't see him upping his average much. But even if he doesn't, will it be a risk putting Cairns in to the top division so early in his career?

Did Lambert no harm in probably a stronger top league bk in 2014. Imo if your good enough I don't see any issues with it.

[Fromafar]

14 hours ago, 89buttons said:

How many of the world beating polish juniors have developed into top top riders tho? They get huge sponsorship and top notch coaching and equipment early which imo gives a false perspective of ability. 
 

the polish dominance at junior goes back a long way and very few have gone on to be top Grand Prix level riders where are the likes of drabik and smektala now, cierniak didn’t set it alight last season either.

And it goes way back to the likes of Robert miskowiak, karol zabik, Arthur mrozcka…

How many rising stars will even make Premiership Heat leader standard.The riders you mention are holding their own in Extraleague.Brennam making progress though not sure about anyone else.

[mikebv]

The RS system was designed to find a good few riders to go into teams and replace overseas riders...

Unearthing a supply of "Simon Lambert's" rather than specifically finding a "Robert Lambert"...

Which is a very sensible plan...

I am just not sure doing it in the top league is the way forward as the standard on show is too high for many of them to compete...

They need to be nurtured, not disillusioned as they progress...

And watching several almost a whole straight behind race winners last year won't be doing anyone any good, most of all the sport itself as it tries to keep crowd numbers at acceptable levels..

Edited yesterday at 08:47 AM by mikebv

[Spiderman1]

2 hours ago, mikebv said:

The RS system was designed to find a good few riders to go into teams and replace overseas riders...

Unearthing a supply of "Simon Lambert's" rather than specifically finding a "Robert Lambert"...

Which is a very sensible plan...

I am just not sure doing it in the top league is the way forward as the standard on show is too high for many of them to compete...

They need to be nurtured, not disillusioned as they progress...

And watching several almost a whole straight behind race winners last year won't be doing anyone any good, most of all the sport itself as it tries to keep crowd nunbers at acceptable levels..

Yep, another terrible British rule,and  RS should not be in the top league, helps no one

[tyler42]

8 hours ago, mikebv said:

The RS system was designed to find a good few riders to go into teams and replace overseas riders...

Unearthing a supply of "Simon Lambert's" rather than specifically finding a "Robert Lambert"...

Which is a very sensible plan...

I am just not sure doing it in the top league is the way forward as the standard on show is too high for many of them to compete...

They need to be nurtured, not disillusioned as they progress...

And watching several almost a whole straight behind race winners last year won't be doing anyone any good, most of all the sport itself as it tries to keep crowd numbers at acceptable levels..

Very good post👍👍