Belle Vue Aces 2025

[Racin Jason 72]

1 hour ago, ouch said:

 

You could make up an alternative narrative for all The Aces but the fact of the matter is someone HAD to go, even including Tate’s injury replacement the fabulous Antti. That’s not debatable. 

Like I say Ben ticked all the boxes unfortunately but whoever it was we could be unfairly berated for dropping a rider - which we had to do to conform to the rules. Things will be a clearer when the team is announced as why it was Ben. 

Louis mentioned Keynan wanted to stay as he had unfinished business and that Louis had reasons for getting rid of Keynan. Keynan also had reasons that could affect whether he re-signed or not. Probably 50/50 though as Louis stated it was mostly Kenyan, so 51/49. His sacking was  unnecessary, a choice not available to The Aces, again not debatable. 

 

Keynan priced himself out of a return. He wasn’t sacked as like all riders they are out of contract from November onwards. 
 

[ouch]

17 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said:

Keynan priced himself out of a return. He wasn’t sacked as like all riders they are out of contract from November onwards. 
 

Fair play to Ipswich going for the cheaper option and a good one at that in Tom. Belts always need tightening in the UK speedway world. 
 

The out of contract thing is just semantics to me. For the 50+ years I’ve been watching speedway all teams generally stick with their team or at least the core, especially the successful ones. There’s an implied “as you were” despite the self employed status of riders. That’s my opinion anyway, could be wrong. 

[JamesB]

43 minutes ago, ouch said:

Fair play to Ipswich going for the cheaper option and a good one at that in Tom. Belts always need tightening in the UK speedway world. 
 

The out of contract thing is just semantics to me. For the 50+ years I’ve been watching speedway all teams generally stick with their team or at least the core, especially the successful ones. There’s an implied “as you were” despite the self employed status of riders. That’s my opinion anyway, could be wrong. 

OK, it’s a cold and boring Friday morning so I’ll take the bait….

1. Louis has decided to strengthen the team by bringing in Brennan.

2. Therefore, in the same way as Belle Vue ‘somebody has to go’ to accommodate that strengthening.

3. Two clubs offered Rew a significant uptick on his points money. He was ‘keen to stay’ but expected Louis to move towards his new offered points money.

4. Any business when hiring an individual weighs up cost v benefit i.e. value for money and it would appear that in this case Louis decided that did not stack up for him as the owner of the business.

5. I have no issue with Rew wanting to increase his earnings and another team being willing to pay accordingly, that’s called Capitalism. 
 

I wish Rew all the best and hope that we see him back as a Witch at some point in the future.

[ouch]

37 minutes ago, JamesB said:

OK, it’s a cold and boring Friday morning so I’ll take the bait….

1. Louis has decided to strengthen the team by bringing in Brennan.

2. Therefore, in the same way as Belle Vue ‘somebody has to go’ to accommodate that strengthening.

3. Two clubs offered Rew a significant uptick on his points money. He was ‘keen to stay’ but expected Louis to move towards his new offered points money.

4. Any business when hiring an individual weighs up cost v benefit i.e. value for money and it would appear that in this case Louis decided that did not stack up for him as the owner of the business.

5. I have no issue with Rew wanting to increase his earnings and another team being willing to pay accordingly, that’s called Capitalism. 
 

I wish Rew all the best and hope that we see him back as a Witch at some point in the future.

Great post and a clear description of the situation. 

The only not the same is point 2 where Ipswich by choice strengthened so Keynan had to go whereas Belle Vue had to de strengthen and not by choice (but due to the rules) a rider had to go. 

If you are a witch, I’d be interested to know if you think Keynan was dropped due to money or due to the signing of Tom. 

[JamesB]

9 minutes ago, ouch said:

Great post and a clear description of the situation. 

The only not the same is point 2 where Ipswich by choice strengthened so Keynan had to go whereas Belle Vue had to de strengthen and not by choice (but due to the rules) a rider had to go. 

If you are a witch, I’d be interested to know if you think Keynan was dropped due to money or due to the signing of Tom. 

Once the decision was taken to strengthen with Brennan, then one of the 2024 cohort had to move on.

I have been told and I have no certainty whether it is true or not that the original plan was for one of the other riders to move on, however the situation with Rew changed the plan.

[MP78]

You've got to believe that Rew would've been retained if his demands were inline with what management wanted to pay.  Ipswich persevered with him during his first season where he was below his 4 point assessed average and started to reap the rewards last year... So would surely have been keen to sign him up for 2025 when he will likely continue his progression.  On that basis, I would guess that Ellis or King were lined up to make way - the latter has hinted at that with his recent comments.  

[ouch]

30 minutes ago, MP78 said:

You've got to believe that Rew would've been retained if his demands were inline with what management wanted to pay.  Ipswich persevered with him during his first season where he was below his 4 point assessed average and started to reap the rewards last year... So would surely have been keen to sign him up for 2025 when he will likely continue his progression.  On that basis, I would guess that Ellis or King were lined up to make way - the latter has hinted at that with his recent comments.  

He came in on a 5.00 so I can see the witches frustration with him ending his second season of (pretty much) riding at reserve and only showing 0.67 increase on that starting average. Card was marked imo. 

https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/p23_issue_1.pdf

[blue witch]

Money as I believe Ellis would've been dropped if Rew didn't ask for so much. Been told he was paid enough this season gone but performed at reserve most he season.

[JamesB]

32 minutes ago, blue witch said:

Money as I believe Ellis would've been dropped if Rew didn't ask for so much. Been told he was paid enough this season gone but performed at reserve most he season.

I heard the same.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

5 hours ago, ouch said:

Great post and a clear description of the situation. 

The only not the same is point 2 where Ipswich by choice strengthened so Keynan had to go whereas Belle Vue had to de strengthen and not by choice (but due to the rules) a rider had to go. 

If you are a witch, I’d be interested to know if you think Keynan was dropped due to money or due to the signing of Tom. 

I know but I'm not going to tell you 

[Youhave2minutes]

25 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I know but I'm not going to tell you 

Tell me if you like

[Roger Jacobs]

4 hours ago, ouch said:

He came in on a 5.00 so I can see the witches frustration with him ending his second season of (pretty much) riding at reserve and only showing 0.67 increase on that starting average. Card was marked imo.

https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/p23_issue_1.pdf

The original thought was he would be on a 4.00, but the Regulations say that riders with Ekstraliga experience start on a minimum 5.00, and that was imposed. I think, although not sure, the Witches had to re-jig their team plans because of their incorrect assumption.

Overall, I reckon 5.67 is a decent average for a rider who had a tough learning curve at Foxhall - his improvement this season was tangible.

I'm with others in that: i) I agree signing Brennan was a no-brainier, and ii) I think Rew was more likely to have been retained - with either King or, most likely, Ellis, making way. From Louis' comments, Rew played a part in the decision for him to move on.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:03 PM, ouch said:

Great post and a clear description of the situation. 

The only not the same is point 2 where Ipswich by choice strengthened so Keynan had to go whereas Belle Vue had to de strengthen and not by choice (but due to the rules) a rider had to go. 

If you are a witch, I’d be interested to know if you think Keynan was dropped due to money or due to the signing of Tom. 

Kenyan wasn’t offered a new contract as he wanted more than Louis was prepared to offer.

As some have already said the boy had his head turned by offers from elsewhere let just hope they are concrete offers.

A big shame really as another year at Ipswich in a settled environment alongside Emil & Jason would really have seen him kick on.

If he is Birmingham bound I can’t see that being an upgrade on Ipswich.

If Rew had stayed then one of Ellis or King would have gone & reading Kings interview I think it would have been him.

[bellevueace]

57 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

Kenyan wasn’t offered a new contract as he wanted more than Louis was prepared to offer.

As some have already said the boy had his head turned by offers from elsewhere let just hope they are concrete offers.

A big shame really as another year at Ipswich in a settled environment alongside Emil & Jason would really have seen him kick on.

If he is Birmingham bound I can’t see that being an upgrade on Ipswich.

If Rew had stayed then one of Ellis or King would have gone & reading Kings interview I think it would have been him.

Rew would definately have benefitted from another season at Ipswich, given the reported crowd figures at Birmingham i wonder how they can find the money to satisfy Rew,s demands? Given the club seems far from stable a strange decision to move there, is Tolley going to over commit financially?

[Youhave2minutes]

18 minutes ago, bellevueace said:

Rew would definately have benefitted from another season at Ipswich, given the reported crowd figures at Birmingham i wonder how they can find the money to satisfy Rew,s demands? Given the club seems far from stable a strange decision to move there, is Tolley going to over commit financially?

Success or bust year I think

[RoundTheBoards]

On 11/22/2024 at 12:18 PM, JamesB said:

I have been told and I have no certainty whether it is true or not that the original plan was for one of the other riders to move on, however the situation with Rew changed the plan.

Weeks ago I said that the Ipswich plan was for King to move on.   And everyone said I didn't know what I was talking about.   Maybe people are starting to see that I did indeed have the correct information at that time.

Something clearly happened with the Rew situation, and Ipswich just went back to King instead. Did he just ask for more money, and Ipswich said no? Did he not want a Thursday race night and prefer Mondays at Brum? Is he giving Britain a miss altogether?  Any of these could be possible.

The only theory being put around that I find hard to believe is that Birmingham offered him more money to move away from Ipswich?   Why would they do that?  With Brennan going to Ipswich, it meant that either King, Ellis or Rew would have to go.  If I were Birmingham, I would be looking to pick up whichever of those three was surplus, without the need to offer big money.   In fact with little prospect of a place elsewhere, I'd be looking to get one of them on a cut-price deal.

[BluPanther]

35 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

Weeks ago I said that the Ipswich plan was for King to move on.   And everyone said I didn't know what I was talking about.   Maybe people are starting to see that I did indeed have the correct information at that time.

Something clearly happened with the Rew situation, and Ipswich just went back to King instead. Did he just ask for more money, and Ipswich said no? Did he not want a Thursday race night and prefer Mondays at Brum? Is he giving Britain a miss altogether?  Any of these could be possible.

The only theory being put around that I find hard to believe is that Birmingham offered him more money to move away from Ipswich?   Why would they do that?  With Brennan going to Ipswich, it meant that either King, Ellis or Rew would have to go.  If I were Birmingham, I would be looking to pick up whichever of those three was surplus, without the need to offer big money.   In fact with little prospect of a place elsewhere, I'd be looking to get one of them on a cut-price deal.

You still don't know what you're talking about, because that was never the plan...

[szkocjasid]

1 hour ago, RoundTheBoards said:

Weeks ago I said that the Ipswich plan was for King to move on.   And everyone said I didn't know what I was talking about.   Maybe people are starting to see that I did indeed have the correct information at that time.

Something clearly happened with the Rew situation, and Ipswich just went back to King instead. Did he just ask for more money, and Ipswich said no? Did he not want a Thursday race night and prefer Mondays at Brum? Is he giving Britain a miss altogether?  Any of these could be possible.

The only theory being put around that I find hard to believe is that Birmingham offered him more money to move away from Ipswich?   Why would they do that?  With Brennan going to Ipswich, it meant that either King, Ellis or Rew would have to go. If I were Birmingham, I would be looking to pick up whichever of those three was surplus, without the need to offer big money. In fact with little prospect of a place elsewhere, I'd be looking to get one of them on a cut-price deal.

That would make a lot of sense, unless Birmingham decided Rew is the difference between winning & losing thus increasing crowds?

[StarBoy]

26 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

That would make a lot of sense, unless Birmingham decided Rew is the difference between winning & losing thus increasing crowds?

But in a roundabout way they’ve just swapped Brennan for Rew and probably paid more on top. Should’ve just matched what Brennan was offered by Ipswich and saved a few quid

[RoundTheBoards]

1 hour ago, BluPanther said:

You still don't know what you're talking about, because that was never the plan...

Subsequent events have proved I was right.