Referees decisions

[Star Lady]

1 T Rick "fencing"...all back.

I couldn't really decided who was most at fault, Hans went wide, Gollob went for a gap that was there but disappeared and TRick maybe got a wee bit too close to the fence. I decided the air fence was at fault in the end so, altho unorthodox, think the ref got this one right.

2 Nicki P and Bo Brhel....exc Nicki

Not sure about this one, would have thought Brhel should have expected Nicki to come under him and be prepared altho Nicki did touch his leg and with a tricky track predictable outcome. Ref probably right.

3 Nicki and Hancock...all back

He cannot be serious. Ref out of order.

[Bryce]

1 - A good case could be made for the ref to jump more than one way on this one. So probably all back in was the just decision.

 

2 - I agree, he got it right.

 

3 - Which then makes his choice NOT to exclude Nicki for the Hancock incident utterly beyond belief.

[Trees]

3. Perhaps it was at the other riders request, thinking about it perhaps it was at Ole Olsen's request, for the crowd entertainment, who knows??

[Mateusz]

3. NP should have been excluded but was not... Fortunately Hancock showed that pig a place in order...

Anyway, referee-duo Steel & Posselwhite rules. No doubts

[Star Fever]

1 - Hans Andersen drifted out in ht 11 and squeezed Bo Brhel up against the fence. Bo grazes the air-fence but hangs on. In ht 16 Andersen did exactly the same which pushed Gollob into TRick, but unfortunately TRick got hooked on the fence and goes down. Giving Andersen the benefit of doubt it seemed to me that the natural line for a rider on the inside on bend 2 is to drift outwards. Riders would instinctively shut-off seeing riders doing this and with a normal wooden fence would bounce off, so it was the fence which ultimately caused TRick to fall. I think the ref used good judgement here realising it was a racing accident with no malicious intent, so yes - ref was right not to exclude anyone.

2 - Nicki Pedersen's rear wheel touched Bo's leg, Bo goes down. Exactly the same situation as in Norway last year with Crump/Holta. Crump was excluded then - Pedersen excluded now - another correct decision.

3a - Ht21 - Exactly the same situation as hts 11 & 16 - Pedersen drifts wide and squeezes Hancock against fence. Like TRick he hooks up and goes down. Fence caused fall again - no exclusion again - another correct decision.

3b - Ht21 re-run. Hancock does a corking pass of Pedersen but then makes a point of fencing him on exit of turn 4 in an act of obvious retaliation. Nicki manages to shut-off in time though - wonder what the ref would have done if he'd clipped the fence and fallen? Hopefully he'd have excluded Greg for a deliberate dangerous manouevre. Now that would have been amusing.

[Chris Brown]

1 - Hans Andersen drifted out in ht 11 and squeezed Bo Brhel up against the fence. Bo grazes the air-fence but hangs on. In ht 16 Andersen did exactly the same which pushed Gollob into TRick, but unfortunately TRick got hooked on the fence and goes down. Giving Andersen the benefit of doubt it seemed to me that the natural line for a rider on the inside on bend 2 is to drift outwards. Riders would instinctively shut-off seeing riders doing this and with a normal wooden fence would bounce off, so it was the fence which ultimately caused TRick to fall. I think the ref used good judgement here realising it was a racing accident with no malicious intent, so yes - ref was right not to exclude anyone.

2 - Nicki Pedersen's rear wheel touched Bo's leg, Bo goes down. Exactly the same situation as in Norway last year with Crump/Holta. Crump was excluded then - Pedersen excluded now - another correct decision.

3a - Ht21 - Exactly the same situation as hts 11 & 16 - Pedersen drifts wide and squeezes Hancock against fence. Like TRick he hooks up and goes down. Fence caused fall again - no exclusion again - another correct decision.

3b - Ht21 re-run. Hancock does a corking pass of Pedersen but then makes a point of fencing him on exit of turn 4 in an act of obvious retaliation. Nicki manages to shut-off in time though - wonder what the ref would have done if he'd clipped the fence and fallen? Hopefully he'd have excluded Greg for a deliberate dangerous manouevre. Now that would have been amusing.

Surely you are joking about Pedersen's move on Greg. I haev not critiscised Nicki in the past but this was pure crazy. I really do worry that he is going to hurt someone. Hard riding is acceptable but what Nicki done tonight is not.

 

I can't beleive we are talking about this incident in a thread about referee's decisions. The referee made the only decision to be made in this case.

[Daniel Smith]

3a - Ht21 - Exactly the same situation as hts 11 & 16 - Pedersen drifts wide and squeezes Hancock against fence. Like TRick he hooks up and goes down. Fence caused fall again - no exclusion again - another correct decision.

3b - Ht21 re-run. Hancock does a corking pass of Pedersen but then makes a point of fencing him on exit of turn 4 in an act of obvious retaliation. Nicki manages to shut-off in time though - wonder what the ref would have done if he'd clipped the fence and fallen? Hopefully he'd have excluded Greg for a deliberate dangerous manouevre. Now that would have been amusing.

uuuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, someones been wearing the same dark goggles as the referee me thinks

[Star Fever]

Joking? No - just saying what I saw. Pedersen didn't deliberately look across to see where Hancock was - he simply took the natural and fastest line out of the bend, as other riders had already done (especially Andersen). In fact Andersen's moves in hts 11 & 16 were more suspect as he was behind the other riders at the time he drifted out into them and obviously could see where they were. Pedersen was actually ahead of Hancock so surely had the 'right of way' anyway. Difference is of course that Andersen hasn't (yet) got Pedersen's bad-boy reputation.

 

I realise that all the Pedersen-haters will jump on this incident with glee (long-time haters Ermolenko and Havelock just loved it didn't they) but I'm not jumping on the band-wagon for what to me seemed a rather innocuous move that I've seen in most every speedway meeting I've seen. Greg's retaliation was a lot more serious imo as it was a calculated move.

[robpeasley]

Star Fever,

 

You seem to be talking about the wrong meeting mate. We're talking about tonight's Czech GP - the one where Nicki Pedersen lost the respect of his fellow riders and also most of the fans.

 

All the best

Rob

[Star Fever]

We're talking about tonight's Czech GP

Hmm - So why isn't everybody having a pop at Hans Andersen as well then - similar moves - similar results? Is it because he isn't Nicki Pedersen?

If it had been any other rider would all this fuss have been made?

 

Anyway this thread is about the referee's decision - lest we forget he didn't exclude Pedersen so presumably he thought it was purely a racing accident too.

Either that or he wasn't wearing his hate glasses.

[21st century heathen]

The ref was a joke.

 

There was very little contact between NP and BB. Tough call that could have gone either way. A little like a footballer taking a dive when there's the slightest contact. Got nothing against BB but he went down easy. Totally different to JC and RH last year. JC ran straight through RH leg with his back wheel. NP brushed BB leg with just the dirt deflector it looked to me.

 

TR should have been excluded, although that would be tough on him. It wasn't the fault of HA or TG that he got caught on the fence. Half way down the back straight means somebody ahs to go. The race was stopped because TR fell. That means he has to go.

 

Should have excluded NP for knocking GH off. I refuse to subscribe to the 'hang him at dawn' mob though.

 

Two GP's down, and the ref has let us down on both occassions. It seems that where TR, in particular, is concerned the ref is going to bottle it every time.

[Splatty]

can anyone clarify for me how the 2x3rd bend all 4 backs looked on camera? - ridiculous decisions - I thought all 4 back on bend 2 is stretching the rules a bit - let alone 3!

[Silver Bee]

Nicki putting Greg in the fence was an absolute joke. He's deliberately put him in the fence. Hreg then made a fair move underneath him to show him who's boss. He never intended to knock Nicki off but to show him he could beat Nicki without cheating. Plus, Oxford Vs. Eastbourne, Nicki Vs. Greg on friday...........

[diamonds_are_forever]

Hmm - So why isn't everybody having a pop at Hans Andersen as well then - similar moves - similar results? Is it because he isn't Nicki Pedersen?

 

Its because Andersen left room to race. TRick scorched around the outside so quick Andersen didn't realise he was there. He moved Gollob over, but left him room to choose the track & not the fence. The problem was he didn't realise TRick was there, so although he left racing room for Gollob, he didn't leave enough room for 2 riders, hence the fall crash.

 

Pedersen could clearly see Gregs line & didn't even leave room for a fly, never mind a bike. I know Gregs only little but even he can't fit through a non existent gap! The fact he shut off as soon as he saw Nicki coming & still couldn't do anything about hitting the fence & cartwheeling down the back straight says it all. What was the alternative? Ride straight into Nicki's back wheel & make the crash worse? The ironic thing was that Greg shut off not only to avoid hitting the fence but to try & avoid hitting Nicki too!

 

Well said by 21st century heathen, you don't have to join the lynch mob, but you surely can't deny the fact he was out of order.

[BritPete]

Apparently, the "all four back" rule for first bend bunching, is NOT in the rule book it is up to the discretion of the referee, and he can order all four back at ANY stage of the race. So I am told!

Edited May 16, 2004 by BritPete

[Alcoholic Mathematician]

1. All three were on different paths that converged at the same time. I think the ref was right as all three were involved and no individual was the main cause.

 

2. Just before making his move on Brhel, Pedersen lifted. Only for a split second, but it took him closer to Brhel than if he hadn't. Not a dirty move by any means, just over-riding. Very similar to Gollob's pass in Heat 21, but Gollob had more room. Brhel wouldn't have fallen if Pedersen had not attempted the pass in that way. I think the ref was right.

 

3. Not, repeat, not the same circumstances as in Heat 16, in which the collision happened much further along the straight and involved three riders. Pedersen could see Hancock was setting-up an outside run coming off the second bend, and moved out to block him. There is a huge difference between blocking someone and squeezing them right up against the fence, but Pedersen did the latter in a very reckless way. Hancock would not have fallen if Pedersen had left him enough room. I think the ref was wrong.

 

It's the frequency with which Pedersen is involved in such incidents that has angered so many. I'm sure we'd all forgive and forget a one-off incident. Pedersen does this sort of thing all the time. I vehemently disagree with the argument that he puts bums on seats and makes things more exciting. It's only a matter of time before Pedersen causes someone a serious injury or worse.

Edited May 16, 2004 by Alcoholic Mathematician

[Dave the Mic]

Not posted on this forum before, so Hi everyone. I found it by typing some phrases in google & these threads about last night's GP came up. I had to look as I was so incensed by what I saw go on.

 

I am an announcer at a track in the UK (and have announced at three other tracks in the past), so am in a privileged position, I guess. I have got to work with many referees past & present, so this thread intrigues me more than the one about Pedersen being dirty, although I may be tempted to post on that one too

 

The incident between Pedersen & Brhel was clear cut & I feel that most referees would have seen it the same way. There may not have been much contact, but the fact is, Pedersen pushed Brhel over & this caused the fall. Therefore, I don't see that the referee had much choice.

 

The incident where Tony fell was less obvious, clearly. They all moved over & he ran out of room. It could have been so much worse & I was glad to see him make a full & speedy recovery. Whilst the referee showed "common sense" he took an easy way out in a lot of ways. There is absolutley no allowance in the rule book for not excluding somebody should the race be stopped after the first turn after someone has fallen. (I have discussed this with 2 heads of the SCB in the past & present & they were both adamant). I am not suggesting the rule book is right, but the rule book is there for a reason & Posselwhite didn't make a decision when he should have. There are many arguments here, but if you apply the letter of the law to it's fullest degree then Tony should have been excluded as he was the reason the race had to be stopped. I don't feel you could exclude Andersen as he was in front, therefore he could pick his line & Gollob was "just in the way." It would have been a harsh decision, but in the letter of the "law" - the right one.

 

As for the Pedersen/Hancock incident. How anyone can defend either the rider (Pedersen) or Posselwhite's decision is beyond me. Pedersen came from nowhere & rode straight into Hancock. Pedersen was certainly culpable for the crash & Posselwhite for not being able to make the right decision. His "all four back" decision was one of the worst I have seen & was made even more so by the fact that he was able to watch it from every possible angle before making the decision. I suspect that there could have been two things that influenced his decision. 1) Ole Olsen, who will do anything for a Dane to win (he has far too much power) & 2) the decision he made over the crash with Tony. Having not excluded anyone there, he may have felt he had to make the same decision in the second one.

 

Comments concerning the re-run & suggesting Hancock "fenced" Pedersen? You must have been using the same glasses as the referee, who incidentally I have worked with more than a few times in the past & I have to say that he is one of the worst there is, so his inept performance came as no shock to me.

Edited May 16, 2004 by Dave the Mic

[Bill leahy]

as we were at football, glad I taped this Gp, watch it in an hour, glad to see the ref are as bad as football, they have there opinion you have yours, it will never change, but it makes good TV, and the Nicki vs. Greg thing will also add to the gate next week, now me and my friends are defiantly going, No Brakes no Fear, they say ......so why complain when you fall or are knocked off.....rather them than me....still don't understand how they get paid less than footballers........have fun .......Bill

[Leg Trailer]

It's the frequency with which Pedersen is involved in such incidents that has angered so many. I'm sure we'd all forgive and forget a one-off incident. Pedersen does this sort of thing all the time. I vehemently disagree with the argument that he puts bums on seats and makes things more exciting. It's only a matter of time before Pedersen causes someone a serious injury or worse.

 

Precisely what I've been getting slagged off on this board for since the day I registered! Granted, it's taken people time to agree with me but finally you lot are waking up and realising that Pedersen is a total liability.

 

Sam Ermolenko summed it up well "he showed no respect for a fellow rider. You can move someone over but you don't have to try and KILL someone". I thought Sam maintained his composure very well considering the fact he just witnessed some lunatic attempting to kill one of his best mates.

 

Some sort of ban is in order for a rider who shows no respect on the track and who appears dangerous more often than not. The Vinnie Jones of speedway will end up doing someone a serious injury (if he hasn't already!) and should be punished like a footballer would be...... coupla red cards and a match ban, that sorta thing yanno? But what hope is there when the referee is watching another meeting all together? That guy needs a sit down with the FIM board and a thorough assessment.

 

But alas, the sense of satisfaction I got from seeing Greg Hancock sock it to Pedersen in the re-run made my bloody night! That is what I call JUSTICE! Nice one Greg, a total gent showed a total punk the way to ride a bike hard but fair. Something Pedersen has no idea about.

[Guest PorkyFenman]

The referees opinions are the only ones that count . With regard 'racing incidents' , it would appear they are allowed to decide blame and the subsequent consequences on a whim . There appear to be no definite rules regarding who should get excluded under what cirumstances , therefore , the ref makes it up as the meeting goes along . With no exact rules to follow , personal favouritism , crowd reaction and ego must sometimes be an influence , after all , they are only human . It's a case of like it or lump it .

 

 

 

I know not what i speak of .