A Development thought for 2025!

[phillwhitewasmad]

7 hours ago, HGould said:

The suggestion I have heard from an aspiring rider (now 15 years old riders parent) has a slightly different take on the rumours above.

That is that the existing Clubs are happy with the size and structure and a few of them don't want nor can see viability in extra Fixtures above the current size.

To facilitate the other existing clubs that want to join or rejoin (presunmably to fill some gaps in CL especially fixtures) and any new Clubs will have their own League run on the same agreed format with 6 man teams.

That though will be a "win" for Riders as they can ride in the existing League and the new League, so potentially doubling opportunities to race. There will be no cross-over add on competitions though between the existing a new League.

It will be interesting to see if this idea, or a more anticipated geographical structure sees the light of day.

 

It's a good idea let's hope that if they run 6 man teams they give all riders 5 rides , no using one reserve 7 times and others only getting 3 rides. It's a development league and you don't develop being pulled out of your heats. 
there will be doom and gloom posters who think it's rubbish but with a lack of competitive riders at that level 10 plus teams can't run without separating the league. 
also can't wait for the it should be an upright league brigade to chip in.

[ouch]

15 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

It's a good idea let's hope that if they run 6 man teams they give all riders 5 rides , no using one reserve 7 times and others only getting 3 rides. It's a development league and you don't develop being pulled out of your heats. 
there will be doom and gloom posters who think it's rubbish but with a lack of competitive riders at that level 10 plus teams can't run without separating the league. 
also can't wait for the it should be an upright league brigade to chip in.

I don’t think managers do that in this league or at least hope they don’t. It’s all about rider development so not having them take their four rides is ridiculous and shortsighted. 

[SaddlebowRoad]

doesnt really matter how its structured, if it means more riders getting more rides on more different tracks then its all good

this level of speedway is about development pure and simple, or should be 

[MillenTheVillen]

1 hour ago, SaddlebowRoad said:

doesnt really matter how its structured, if it means more riders getting more rides on more different tracks then its all good

this level of speedway is about development pure and simple, or should be 

Of course it matters how it's structured.

No rider is going to double his outlay to ride for 2 teams to get 3 rides in each meeting!

6 man Teams 5 rides each is as simple a solution to rider development you can get or you end up with double the scenario we have now of 1 rider getting 14 rides in 2 meetings and another getting 6 for the same outlay 

Edited Tuesday at 11:18 AM by MillenTheVillen

[SaddlebowRoad]

11 minutes ago, MillenTheVillen said:

Of course it matters how it's structured.

No rider is going to double his outlay to ride for 2 teams to get 3 rides in each meeting!

6 man Teams 5 rides each is as simple a solution to rider development you can get or you end up with double the scenario we have now of 1 rider getting 14 rides in 2 meetings and another getting 6 for the same outlay 

agree with all that

didnt explain myself very well, i meant two separate leagues with the same riders overlapping is fine in my book

absolutely agree that you cant have the six rides / fourteen rides split

at the end of the day more opportunities for developing young riders is the way forward 

[KK62]

On 11/25/2024 at 5:03 PM, phillwhitewasmad said:

It's a good idea let's hope that if they run 6 man teams they give all riders 5 rides , no using one reserve 7 times and others only getting 3 rides. It's a development league and you don't develop being pulled out of your heats. 
there will be doom and gloom posters who think it's rubbish but with a lack of competitive riders at that level 10 plus teams can't run without separating the league. 
also can't wait for the it should be an upright league brigade to chip in.

Playing Devils advocate ( as always) but you’re doing a team manager out of a job !

Why cant 10 plus teams run without separating the league ? The riders are crying out for rides so the more matches the better……oh, hang on…..not enough riders ?

This is why they need to get their support for newbies and the youth sorted out as thats where the riders will come from. The SCB should be running speedway try outs -schools at any track that will host them, invite moto x riders , school kids, fans to come along , for free , and have a ride. The SCB/BSPL should supply bikes, basic kit and tutors to travel around and promote the sport other wise it will be dead within the next few years. This sticky plaster approach isn't going to save it.

[phillwhitewasmad]

2 hours ago, KK62 said:

Playing Devils advocate ( as always) but you’re doing a team manager out of a job !

ok nominate riders for heats 13 ,14, 15 let him switch the lowest two averaged riders in heats but all must have 5 rides

Why cant 10 plus teams run without separating the league ? The riders are crying out for rides so the more matches the better……oh, hang on…..not enough riders ?

agree not enough riders but even if there was clubs are not wanting 10 to 12 more home meetings 

This is why they need to get their support for newbies and the youth sorted out as thats where the riders will come from. The SCB should be running speedway try outs -schools at any track that will host them, invite moto x riders , school kids, fans to come along , for free , and have a ride. The SCB/BSPL should supply bikes, basic kit and tutors to travel around and promote the sport other wise it will be dead within the next few years. This sticky plaster approach isn't going to save it.

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:47 PM by phillwhitewasmad

[szkocjasid]

On 11/25/2024 at 5:03 PM, phillwhitewasmad said:

It's a good idea let's hope that if they run 6 man teams they give all riders 5 rides , no using one reserve 7 times and others only getting 3 rides. It's a development league and you don't develop being pulled out of your heats. 

 

12 hours ago, ouch said:

I don’t think managers do that in this league or at least hope they don’t. It’s all about rider development so not having them take their four rides is ridiculous and shortsighted. 

2023 at Oxford Jacob Fellows had 2 home matches, 3 rides in each. Luke Killeen took 6 rides in one & Sam Woods 5 rides in the other. Away from home 3 rides in one match, got 5 in the other when Killeen got injured.

Fellows then got dropped before getting a fifth match.

That's a prime example of a rider who would've benefitted from getting a minimum of 5 rides per match.

[AndiCapp]

Any info regarding the league after todays meeting?

[Bojangles]

1 hour ago, szkocjasid said:

 

2023 at Oxford Jacob Fellows had 2 home matches, 3 rides in each. Luke Killeen took 6 rides in one & Sam Woods 5 rides in the other. Away from home 3 rides in one match, got 5 in the other when Killeen got injured.

Fellows then got dropped before getting a fifth match.

That's a prime example of a rider who would've benefitted from getting a minimum of 5 rides per match.

You seem to have omitted Jacob Fellows' scores in those meetings...

H vs Leicester: 1+1 (scored a point as Max James was excluded)
H vs Belle Vue: 0
-
A vs Belle Vue: 0
A vs Mildenhall: 1 (scored point as Sam Woods was excluded)

Would he have benefited more from an extra ride half a lap behind the opposition, or did Luke Killeen (etc.) benefit more from those extra rides? Yes, it's a development league, but riders should still be competitive at that level if they want the rides surely? Jacob Fellows could have been in 7 heats in those meetings and he would have scored the same (bar exclusions) as he was so far off the pace. Instead the likes of Luke Killeen got them, and look where he is now.

Edited Tuesday at 10:52 PM by Bojangles

[szkocjasid]

8 hours ago, Bojangles said:

You seem to have omitted Jacob Fellows' scores in those meetings...

H vs Leicester: 1+1 (scored a point as Max James was excluded)
H vs Belle Vue: 0
-
A vs Belle Vue: 0
A vs Mildenhall: 1 (scored point as Sam Woods was excluded)

Would he have benefited more from an extra ride half a lap behind the opposition, or did Luke Killeen (etc.) benefit more from those extra rides? Yes, it's a development league, but riders should still be competitive at that level if they want the rides surely? Jacob Fellows could have been in 7 heats in those meetings and he would have scored the same (bar exclusions) as he was so far off the pace. Instead the likes of Luke Killeen got them, and look where he is now.

Of course I omitted Fellows' scores, they weren't relevant to my post. I was commenting on previous posts suggesting 5 riders each was better for development & someone thinking "surely teams wouldn't give one reserve more rides & one 3 rides only".

Oxford didn't break any rules & were entitled to do what they did, my comment was based solely on riders being taken out of rides, to answer the previous posts.

[phillwhitewasmad]

9 hours ago, Bojangles said:

You seem to have omitted Jacob Fellows' scores in those meetings...

H vs Leicester: 1+1 (scored a point as Max James was excluded)
H vs Belle Vue: 0
-
A vs Belle Vue: 0
A vs Mildenhall: 1 (scored point as Sam Woods was excluded)

Would he have benefited more from an extra ride half a lap behind the opposition, or did Luke Killeen (etc.) benefit more from those extra rides? Yes, it's a development league, but riders should still be competitive at that level if they want the rides surely? Jacob Fellows could have been in 7 heats in those meetings and he would have scored the same (bar exclusions) as he was so far off the pace. Instead the likes of Luke Killeen got them, and look where he is now.

My take on this would be that Luke would have still progressed to the level he has taking 5 rides if teams were six man as he had the abilities. Jacob could well of progressed to a decent standard national league reserve given the chance to take his rides

its all subjective though as its opinion based

[MillenTheVillen]

10 hours ago, Bojangles said:

Yes, it's a development league, but riders should still be competitive at that level if they want the rides surely? Jacob Fellows could have been in 7 heats in those meetings and he would have scored the same (bar exclusions) as he was so far off the pace. Instead the likes of Luke Killeen got them, and look where he is now.

By your reckoning then the rider who needs 7 riders to progress shouldn't get them and the rider who is progressing should just keep getting more? 

Until everyone gets away from the win at all costs mentality and starts to make it about Development (that doesn't mean everyone is entitled to take part) it'll continue to be the same old same old below the PL and CL level.

5 rides each has to be way forward for 6 man Teams or 4 rides for 7 (by all means allow reserves to switch and nominate the last 4 heats) to develop all the riders not just those who can score the most points on a night!

Edited Wednesday at 08:59 AM by MillenTheVillen

[Bojangles]

1 hour ago, MillenTheVillen said:

By your reckoning then the rider who needs 7 riders to progress shouldn't get them and the rider who is progressing should just keep getting more? 

Until everyone gets away from the win at all costs mentality and starts to make it about Development (that doesn't mean everyone is entitled to take part) it'll continue to be the same old same old below the PL and CL level.

5 rides each has to be way forward for 6 man Teams or 4 rides for 7 (by all means allow reserves to switch and nominate the last 4 heats) to develop all the riders not just those who can score the most points on a night!

It's not about win at all costs, it's about developing the right riders who have a future in the sport. If Fellows was taken out for a 36-year-old journeyman, then I agree with you. If he's taken out and replaced by a more promising rider who would benefit more, then I'm all for it.

Edited Wednesday at 10:04 AM by Bojangles

[Bojangles]

2 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

Of course I omitted Fellows' scores, they weren't relevant to my post. I was commenting on previous posts suggesting 5 riders each was better for development & someone thinking "surely teams wouldn't give one reserve more rides & one 3 rides only".

Oxford didn't break any rules & were entitled to do what they did, my comment was based solely on riders being taken out of rides, to answer the previous posts.

Of course it's relevant as you stated it was a prime example of a rider who would have benefited from more rides. Jacob Fellows had numerous rides around Oxford, in practice (doing lap after lap following meetings) and racing, and he never progressed - there was no improvement, as the scores show. Why do you think an extra ride or two would have made the difference?

I get the essence of your original point, though, but perhaps using Fellows wasn't a good example.

Edited Wednesday at 10:09 AM by Bojangles

[KK62]

16 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

 

You should be a promoter and get on the committee, its not like you do much else.

[phillwhitewasmad]

2 hours ago, KK62 said:

You should be a promoter and get on the committee, its not like you do much else.

no thanks mate I am already bitter and twisted without adding that to it

[Binman]

1 hour ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Would say a large percentage of the lads have it on the limit at the start and it's a god thing they are limited those who don't should aspire to as it's part of progression. Riders not wanting to progress is their issue but still need to follow the technical specifications. 

A large percentage will be on the limit but the fast gaters won't