midlandred Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 If the semi-finals and finals have to stay….. Points scored in the usual way in heats 1-20 accumulate over the season towards the World Individual Championship. On the night, as now, the top eight scorers qualify for semi-finals and final to decide the Grand Prix (or Rider of the night), but no points from those last three races are included in the World Championship reckoning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 (edited) 24 minutes ago, racers and royals said: To be fair the graphics have been spot on for several Gp’s now. I don’t see anything wrong with the scoring system in use currently( apart from 1 thing). If one fills a programme in after heat 20 it only takes a couple of minutes max to allocate positions 9 to 16 and determine who is in which semi and order of choice( ingrained in my memory is 1,4,6,7 and 2,3,5,8 lol). Working out who gets 12,11,10 and 9 points is also not rocket science, it’s just based on the finishing position after 20 heats. my main concern is how Michelsen in Riga was robbed of a point for last place to a reserve(Gusts) who failed to score a point. I have made a suggestion to the FIM that meeting reserves points are only considered in the meeting points classification if they actually score a race point( or more). They can't even spell Marshal correctly, the graphics have been all over the place during qualifying... when they can be bothered to show them and Cardiff? The hokey cokey GP 🕺. Imagine if that had been for a title... or medal... or top 6 So we wait a couple of minutes to decide who is world champion while the rocket scientists sort it out? Sport is all about the moment... it'd be like Ice Dancing when they're all waiting around for the results! Edited September 15 by IainB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
midlandred Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 13 hours ago, TheSmiler said: Kelvin Tatum “and umm, err”. Every other sentence! Is there any other way of referring to coming fourth than “and xxxxx xxxxxx misses out”, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 37 minutes ago, midlandred said: If the semi-finals and finals have to stay….. Points scored in the usual way in heats 1-20 accumulate over the season towards the World Individual Championship. On the night, as now, the top eight scorers qualify for semi-finals and final to decide the Grand Prix (or Rider of the night), but no points from those last three races are included in the World Championship reckoning. I thought the best system was every race counted, so effectively riders could score 21 per GP if they won all 7 races, the fact that some riders could end up with more points than the winner didn’t bother me one jot. Riders also knew that retiring for whatever reason cost them points and would always generally try to race rather than just give up. I don’t have a problem with the top 6 qualifying for the following seasons GP but the GP Challenge should provide at least 6 qualifiers with just 3 picks for the FIM., this rewards riders who do the qualifiers. Too many riders rely on the FIM picks for places and don’t bother to do the GP Qualifiers and just take a chance, if they decline to pre qualify and don’t make the top 6 or 8 then they shouldn’t get a FIM pick. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 Lets face it if we had 3 different WC over the last three years no one would be going on about the scoring system ,if you take BZ out of the mix the rest are well matched . BZ has excelled over the last few years ( IMO he is a better rider than 2021 he is more mature) is part of a well "oiled" package that has GP's sorted better than the rest . The whole presentation is better than anyone at the GP's ,his attire ,bikes and the colour he has choosen makes him stand out on the start line. It reminds me of when Mauger transformed the sport in 60's-70's ,he stood out in every way from the rest BZ is doing the same . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 (edited) 14 hours ago, mikebv said: I agree.. But, the days of being World Champion and getting you "made for life" are long gone.. I am, sadly, old enough to remember the mid 70's when winning the World Title was quoted by Dave Lanning as "guaranteeing" you £250k as a minimum the following year. In 1978 PC got a months ban for arriving back late for the start of the season due a flight issue in the US, and, in his book, he said that the month cost him over £20k 😯 in lost earnings here and in Germany riding long track on a Sunday... Poland pay you the "life changing" money these days, not the World Championships.. Zmarzlik gets 4 GM engines a year free for being world champion from GM, he gets huge sponsorship from the door company, Astorin watches and god knows who much he gets from orlen oil as well as his many other sponsors, I think that alone gets him £250,000 before you even get to his polish league money which is well over a million, I don’t think it money that motivates him, he has a desire to win no matter what the meeting, something I alluded to last weekend about timed practice is have you noticed how zmarzlik is never the fastest so eliminating the decision of picking the wrong gates, also last night he and his crew were in deep discussion before his last race, was it to tell him to get second behind bewley so he didn’t meet lambert in the semi final as he knew lambert would be doing his best to eliminate him ? Maybe it wasn’t ? Maybe it was to sit wherever he was after the gate as he already through,These things may seem tiny insignificant details to us mortals but when the difference between winning and losing is so tiny they can be everything, remember last year when he would step infront of everyone else at the gate pick ? It’s pure psychology Edited September 15 by THE DEAN MACHINE 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 11 hours ago, Mr. Clemens said: But in those days everyone got a chance of getting to the world final not the 'select few' Riders from every country get a chance to enter do they not but there are only so many places allocated to each Country,so you have to be the Top rider in that Country.Dont think many decent rider miss the chance to start with.Poles have the biggest grievance as they more better riders than most(as GB in the 70/ 80’s).Don't think there should be Wild Cards though.It is what it is and Bartosz is a worthy 5 times Champion.IMO.( Russian situation accepted). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKYLANE Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 From what I recall, the semis and finals are there to create a climax to the meeting which is greatly favoured by those filming the series and the sponsors. in the old format two bad rides and there would be no chance of getting in the top 3. if we are having a series, then I think the present format is fine 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJC Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 Another poor meeting in terms of actual racing but a great result for Lambert, hopefully opens the floodgates for next year. Oh what could have been had he not had a stinker in Gorzow. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 5 minutes ago, DJC said: Another poor meeting in terms of actual racing but a great result for Lambert, hopefully opens the floodgates for next year. Oh what could have been had he not had a stinker in Gorzow. . It’s generally always poor at Vojens the track is a gaters paradise and generally slick. I have rarely seen a decent meeting there over the years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 38 minutes ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: Zmarzlik gets 4 GM engines a year free for being world champion from GM, he gets huge sponsorship from the door company, Astorin watches and god knows who much he gets from orlen oil as well as his many other sponsors, I think that alone gets him £250,000 before you even get to his polish league money which is well over a million, I don’t think it money that motivates him, he has a desire to win no matter what the meeting, something I alluded to last weekend about timed practice is have you noticed how zmarzlik is never the fastest so eliminating the decision of picking the wrong gates, also last night he and his crew were in deep discussion before his last race, was it to tell him to get second behind bewley so he didn’t meet lambert in the semi final as he knew lambert would be doing his best to eliminate him ? Maybe it wasn’t ? Maybe it was to sit wherever he was after the gate as he already through,These things may seem tiny insignificant details to us mortals but when the difference between winning and losing is so tiny they can be everything, remember last year when he would step infront of everyone else at the gate pick ? It’s pure psychology He is in a unique situation given the sports profile in Poland, and is also very much "right place, right time" when it comes to opponents... He is genuinely one of the best riders ever but clearly isn't getting challenged anywhere near the way Trick, Crump, Hancock, Gollob and Pedersen, challenged each other, plus with the likes of Adams too.. For me, the money in Poland won't make any difference to Zmarzlik as he has such desire and almost no fear... But, to the others, (non Poles in particular), I would suggest taking the risks that Zmarzlik takes wouldn't be on their agenda given they wouldnt get anywhere near the financial rewards in their own countries by being World Champ, but they can earn many hundred of thousands a year by ensuring they are fit to ride each Sunday after the GP... And do this for 10 years or more and they have the chance to retire very wealthy men... He really could win the next five at least given no one seems to be "getting close" and there doesn't seem to be any up and coming young superstar to challenge him... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 17 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: It’s generally always poor at Vojens the track is a gaters paradise and generally slick. I have rarely seen a decent meeting there over the years. It’s sad when the meeting at Scunny on Friday was miles better.GP for Scunny I say.😂 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 3 minutes ago, mikebv said: He is in a unique situation given the sports profile in Poland, and is also very much "right place, right time" when it comes to opponents... He is genuinely one of the best riders ever but clearly isn't getting challenged anywhere near the way Trick, Crump, Hancock, Gollob and Pedersen, challenged each other, plus with the likes of Adams too.. For me, the money in Poland won't make any difference to Zmarzlik as he has such desire and almost no fear... But, to the others, (non Poles in particular), I would suggest taking the risks that Zmarzlik takes wouldn't be on their agenda given they wouldnt get anywhere near the financial rewards in their own countries by being World Champ, but they can earn many hundred of thousands a year by ensuring they are fit to ride each Sunday after the GP... And do this for 10 years or more and they have the chance to retire very wealthy men... He really could win the next five at least given no one seems to be "getting close" and there doesn't seem to be any up and coming young superstar to challenge him... Bartosz rides well within himself these days compared to when he first came on the scene.He is one of the greats IMO.You can only beat what’s in front of you and I wouldn’t say the sport is any easier now,in fact I would say it is harder to stay ahead of the game given all the Countries and Meetings the Top riders contest. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 Just now, Fromafar said: Bartosz rides well within himself these days compared to when he first came on the scene.He is one of the greats IMO.You can only beat what’s in front of you and I wouldn’t say the sport is any easier now,in fact I would say it is harder to stay ahead of the game given all the Countries and Meetings the Top riders contest. Clearly one of the best ever, maybe even THE best .? But also head and shoulders above all the others.... Lambert probably the only one who could give him a run for his money? When you win a GP series well before the conclusion the gulf is massive . Maybe they need to make him have at least one less GP each year than the rest? 😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 6 minutes ago, mikebv said: Clearly one of the best ever, maybe even THE best .? But also head and shoulders above all the others.... Lambert probably the only one who could give him a run for his money? When you win a GP series well before the conclusion the gulf is massive . Maybe they need to make him have at least one less GP each year than the rest? 😁 They tried that one last year and it didn’t work.😂.Maybe should try Two next year.👍😂 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 14 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Bartosz rides well within himself these days compared to when he first came on the scene.He is one of the greats IMO.You can only beat what’s in front of you and I wouldn’t say the sport is any easier now,in fact I would say it is harder to stay ahead of the game given all the Countries and Meetings the Top riders contest. As a matter of interest how many meetings does BZ compete in during a season? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE DEAN MACHINE Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 48 minutes ago, IainB said: As a matter of interest how many meetings does BZ compete in during a season? I would say about 100. He rides in Sweden, Poland and all the individual and Poland test matches 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 3 hours ago, midlandred said: If the semi-finals and finals have to stay….. Points scored in the usual way in heats 1-20 accumulate over the season towards the World Individual Championship. On the night, as now, the top eight scorers qualify for semi-finals and final to decide the Grand Prix (or Rider of the night), but no points from those last three races are included in the World Championship reckoning. That's a terrible idea. It reduces winning the GP to the status of winning the second half. I actually think the current scoring is fine. It's only hard to work out because poor old Kelvin isn't very good at maths so just confuses everyone - including himself. The winner of the GP should be the top scorer. Anyway, well done Robert Lambert, and congratulations to Bartosz Zmarzlik on yet another "asterix" World Championship. I'm still not convinced he is as great as other winners with a similar amount of wins though. Imagine someone like Leigh Adams riding in a field this strength instead of Bartosz. We'd probably be talking about Leigh Adams as one of the greatest riders of all time instead of "best rider never to be World Champion". How many World Championships would Jason Crump have won if Tony Rickardsson and Nicki Pedersen had been banned? Does he suddenly become the greatest of all time by default. You can only beat what is in front of you though, and Zmarzlik is doing that every year with a GP to spare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hackett Posted September 15 Report Share Posted September 15 Great to see Lambert finally win a SGP. Fully deserved has been a model of consistency this season . As he said if he didnt win one this season that would be all that would be discussed over the winter. Hopefully now he can build on this and take a Silver Medal at Torun and challenge again in 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted September 15 Author Report Share Posted September 15 1 hour ago, THE DEAN MACHINE said: I would say about 100. He rides in Sweden, Poland and all the individual and Poland test matches Less than that - 75 tops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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