mikebv Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 (edited) 5 hours ago, orion said: The watering down of team strenghts is the main reasons why crowds fell away...its been done it dont work The improving of the levels hasn't worked either it appears, but will have increased costs.. No disrespect to any riders, but hardly any of them put "bums on seats", so lose one "middle level" rider per team and invest that money into marketing.. £40k or so would interest someone to get involved in the marketkng of a club surely? Especially if you add on some commission based on income growth.. Maybe even all 7 could join forces and nationallv advertise? When trying to gain new fans, or getting ex fans to return, the big plus they currently have is that each club is pretty much down to the hard core so any "watering down" won't impact the die hards, and any newbies or ex fans will have either zero knowledge or little knowledge of who the "top riders" are.. And if the clubs keep the "top twos" you would still have GP stars to advertise.. Doing the same old, same old certainly isnt cutting it, so some innovation to the operating model is long overdue.... Edited July 23 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 9 minutes ago, mikebv said: The improving of the levels hasn't worked either it appears, but will have increased costs.. No disrespect to any riders, but hardly any of them put "bums on seats", so lose one "middle level" rider per team and invest that money into marketing.. £40k or so would interest someone to get involved in the marketkng of a club surely? Especially if you add on some commission based on income growth.. Maybe even all 7 could join forces and nationallv advertise? When trying to gain new fans, or getting ex fans to return, the big plus they currently have is that each club is pretty much down to the hard core so any "watering down" won't impact the die hards, and any newbies or ex fans will have either zero knowledge or little knowledge of who the "top riders" are.. And if the clubs keep the "top twos" you would still have GP stars to advertise.. Doing the same old, same old certainly isnt cutting it, so some innovation to the operating model is long overdue.... The problem is, where is the inspiration going to come from to reinvent the sport because the SCB certainly have no interest... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 (edited) 20 minutes ago, mikebv said: The improving of the levels hasn't worked either it appears, but will have increased costs.. No disrespect to any riders, but hardly any of them put "bums on seats", so lose one "middle level" rider per team and invest that money into marketing.. £40k or so would interest someone to get involved in the marketkng of a club surely? Especially if you add on some commission based on income growth.. Maybe even all 7 could join forces and nationallv advertise? When trying to gain new fans, or getting ex fans to return, the big plus they currently have is that each club is pretty much down to the hard core so any "watering down" won't impact the die hards, and any newbies or ex fans will have either zero knowledge or little knowledge of who the "top riders" are.. And if the clubs keep the "top twos" you would still have GP stars to advertise.. Doing the same old, same old certainly isnt cutting it, so some innovation to the operating model is long overdue.... They've tried a few things before but it never lasts. One year the KOC included choosing gates when 6 behind, was there a match race too, losing team wins that and gets 3 points? Think that was the old 13 heat format with 2 nominated races. They were gonna have a 3 team tournament (Jubilee League) but decided to go back to 2 legs (never raced). I remember an Edinburgh vs Glasgow Scottish Cup tie over 13 heats & a second half like years ago, but not all the riders wanted to go out for the second half, so the Glasgow leg became a 15 heat match. The Premiership KO Cup had a fans choose the nominated heat riders one year too. Do we blame the "powers that be" for giving up on ideas too easily or is it the same fans that demand something different then don't like anything new? Edited July 23 by szkocjasid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stbender Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 “The way forward” is a whole new thread on its own. Clubs are mostly on their arse and whilst there does seem to be a fresh look in the TV presentation with the sponsorship backdrops behind the presents and riders when interviewing and in the pits, there is no real fresh people operating the day to day. I feel sorry for Phil Morris as I’m a big fan but one man can’t do it all. I think one big league is the most likely option over the next few years with meetings over Thursdays/fridays/ Saturdays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 (edited) 1 hour ago, szkocjasid said: They've tried a few things before but it never lasts. One year the KOC included choosing gates when 6 behind, was there a match race too, losing team wins that and gets 3 points? Think that was the old 13 heat format with 2 nominated races. They were gonna have a 3 team tournament (Jubilee League) but decided to go back to 2 legs (never raced). I remember an Edinburgh vs Glasgow Scottish Cup tie over 13 heats & a second half like years ago, but not all the riders wanted to go out for the second half, so the Glasgow leg became a 15 heat match. The Premiership KO Cup had a fans choose the nominated heat riders one year too. Do we blame the "powers that be" for giving up on ideas too easily or is it the same fans that demand something different then don't like anything new? I personally think the riders are dictating the sport to suit their own needs and Promotions are just going with it.They are probably have still got the same wages bill in a seriously weakened league in recent seasons.Dont think crowds have improved markedly at most Clubs. Edited July 23 by Fromafar 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 4 minutes ago, 1stbender said: “The way forward” is a whole new thread on its own. Clubs are mostly on their arse and whilst there does seem to be a fresh look in the TV presentation with the sponsorship backdrops behind the presents and riders when interviewing and in the pits, there is no real fresh people operating the day to day. I feel sorry for Phil Morris as I’m a big fan but one man can’t do it all. I think one big league is the most likely option over the next few years with meetings over Thursdays/fridays/ Saturdays. Poland have Thursday, Friday, Saturday (and Sundays) tied up... Thursdays given away by the UK... As previously said, post Covid was the time for a "complete reset, and relaunch"... With over a year of no speedway, the sports followers would have been open to some innovation, and radical changes... It got none of the above... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 23 Report Share Posted July 23 14 hours ago, michanekman said: I don't know what Sam E is smoking but it must be pretty potent. This from the Birmingham press release after last night...“It’s hard to get it consistent at the moment, we’re still working on it, and when it does click we’ll be a force.” Yeah, I know he's got to try & be positive, but that's a bit of a stretch. More accurately if the team all clicks they'll have the ability to win 46-44 at home & score 40 points away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 The damage has already been done. As Orion stated, the constant watering down of the standard year on year has seen the crowds fall away. No coincidence. The sport is dying on its ar*e sadly and not sure there is any way back for most clubs now. 90 percent of British clubs have promoted poorly over the years, the powers that be have let things get out of control rules wise and whats left is a rubbish product that most wont take serious anymore. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 (edited) I'm not sure I buy the watering down argument, yes it is watered down somewhat to what it used to be and that was probably understandable post-pandemic/brexit, but in recent years it has been watered-up again with the return of some "stars". Personally I think the reasons are many, I don't think there's one overall reason, you can tinker about with the rules until the cows come home, tac subs, league points, average limits, who you can sign and when it will not attract a single new fan. The best money British Speedway could spend would be getting some kind of consultant in to write a report on the current state of the sport and the reasons behind that and a plan for a complete overhaul. That may involve changes a lot of which the current fan base (and riders) may well not be happy with. Edited July 24 by iainb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*JJ Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 19 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said: Is there a water shortage in the Birmingham area? Every match report I read from Birmingham in the summer months involves complaints of clouds of dust from early in the meetings. seems a good way to diss any new fans to the sport…. This is a mantra which people seem to trot out all the time, relating to the situation in 2021 when the track had not been touched for two years and the shale had weathered. There wasn't any dust on Monday until the last two heats. The track was watered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 (edited) JJ is correct. The track was watered continuously from early morning, and it was only towards the end that there was any dust. Personally, I seriously doubt whether many of the people who post on this site have actually been in attendance at the matches that they comment on. There is a hard core who come what may, will never be satisfied and a good many more who seem to just follow on and and add their own opinions to these comments. Edited July 24 by brianbuck 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 12 hours ago, iainb said: I'm not sure I buy the watering down argument, yes it is watered down somewhat to what it used to be and that was probably understandable post-pandemic/brexit, but in recent years it has been watered-up again with the return of some "stars". Personally I think the reasons are many, I don't think there's one overall reason, you can tinker about with the rules until the cows come home, tac subs, league points, average limits, who you can sign and when it will not attract a single new fan. The best money British Speedway could spend would be getting some kind of consultant in to write a report on the current state of the sport and the reasons behind that and a plan for a complete overhaul. That may involve changes a lot of which the current fan base (and riders) may well not be happy with. Absolutely no need for any of that... You only have to see the joy on the faces of the managers and promoters during the TV meetings to see how seriously they take it to know all is well, and that they must be delighted at the way they run the sport, and the direction of travel that they have the sport heading in.... They certainly don't need any outside help from "professionals" in expert fields given they run things so well... More of the same next season please..... And the season after.... And the season after that.. And the etc etc etc (If it still is going)... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1stbender Posted July 24 Report Share Posted July 24 Speedway really is a closed circle. promotions could unleash a wealth of dynamic people if they just opened up and asked for some help and I’m sure some people would offer to help and use their skills from different sectors (marketing, sales, operational personnel) maybe even for nothing for a small amount of their time due to the care of the sport etc, but it seems to me unless your willing to part with your cash to prop up the team with the promotion then forget it. Most clubs don’t seem to want to open up and keep it as it is because “that’s how we’ve always done it” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 15 hours ago, brianbuck said: JJ is correct. The track was watered continuously from early morning, and it was only towards the end that there was any dust. Personally, I seriously doubt whether many of the people who post on this site have actually been in attendance at the matches that they comment on. There is a hard core who come what may, will never be satisfied and a good many more who seem to just follow on and and add their own opinions to these comments. Unfortunately Brian, the fact of the matter is that the track was ok for a few heats and then it was poor, with blue grooves and minimal racing lines..... nearly wiping out Lampart and Flint... Being on TV made it evident for ALL to see! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 13 hours ago, 1stbender said: Speedway really is a closed circle. promotions could unleash a wealth of dynamic people if they just opened up and asked for some help and I’m sure some people would offer to help and use their skills from different sectors (marketing, sales, operational personnel) maybe even for nothing for a small amount of their time due to the care of the sport etc, but it seems to me unless your willing to part with your cash to prop up the team with the promotion then forget it. Most clubs don’t seem to want to open up and keep it as it is because “that’s how we’ve always done it” Most speedway Promoters are relying on other peoples money to keep them afloat.Sponsors and Fan Clubs are propping up Speedway at a number of Clubs.Fans only hear anything when they need money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted July 25 Report Share Posted July 25 (edited) 9 hours ago, GiveusaB said: 9 hours ago, GiveusaB said: I can't say I agree with that Steve. I watched both races from the centre green, and I thought it was a typically forceful ride from Howarth in heat 8 - Howarth has always been a hard rider, and I didn't see anything wrong with his overtake in that race (although I think Flint wasn't too happy about it!) In heat 12, Chris Holder lifted his front wheel (probably higher than he intended) to get more speed out of his bike. He kept a straight line, but he definitely unsettled Lampart and caused him to momentarily shut off with the result that both Holder and Edwards got past him. Again, I don't think Holder did anything wrong - it was just an incident which worked against us. I don't believe that the track had anything to do with either incident, but knowing that you feel that the track isn't what it should be, I'm not surprised that it is getting the blame!!!! Edited July 25 by brianbuck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted August 5 Report Share Posted August 5 (edited) Both incidents are matters of opinion I guess... (stood on the Centre Green on many occasions and I can't agree that it's the best viewing aspect for both of the said incidents) As for the track? From my position and many, many other speedway fans, the track is inconsistent and not good enough.... I know a lot of people work hard and put in a lot of effort at the Club.....but unfortunately, they're not getting it right. Edited August 5 by GiveusaB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petecc Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 20 hours ago, GiveusaB said: Both incidents are matters of opinion I guess... (stood on the Centre Green on many occasions and I can't agree that it's the best viewing aspect for both of the said incidents) As for the track? From my position and many, many other speedway fans, the track is inconsistent and not good enough.... I know a lot of people work hard and put in a lot of effort at the Club.....but unfortunately, they're not getting it right. Time for you to turn up and share your expert advice ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 4 minutes ago, Petecc said: Time for you to turn up and share your expert advice ? I haven't claimed to know how to prepare a track? but if you think its good enough then you're easily pleased! I could certainly select a better side ! Pawlicki wouldnt be getting another ride that's for sure....he must be on a guaranteed contract...he's crap! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 6 Report Share Posted August 6 On 7/24/2024 at 8:42 AM, iainb said: I'm not sure I buy the watering down argument, yes it is watered down somewhat to what it used to be and that was probably understandable post-pandemic/brexit, but in recent years it has been watered-up again with the return of some "stars". Personally I think the reasons are many, I don't think there's one overall reason, you can tinker about with the rules until the cows come home, tac subs, league points, average limits, who you can sign and when it will not attract a single new fan. The best money British Speedway could spend would be getting some kind of consultant in to write a report on the current state of the sport and the reasons behind that and a plan for a complete overhaul. That may involve changes a lot of which the current fan base (and riders) may well not be happy with. Agree,when you have 5 Glasgow Tigers team that started the season riding in Workington v Redcar fixture that says it all really.Sad for the sport IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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