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The Big Five 1960's-team riding


BOBBATH

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Of the big 5- Craven, Fundin, Briggs, Moore, Knutsson, I would guess that Ronnie Moore was the best team rider of them all. I'm wondering how forumlanders would rank the other four as unselfish team riders e.g. who would rank worst - Ove maybe or Briggo perhaps- not sure about Craven (the only one I never saw ride) and I don't think Bjorn was really into team riding. I look forward to others' views on this as always. I learn a lot from the forum.

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At one time it was pretty difficult for the Big-5 to team ride when they started on a Handicap......but I watched them all and I have a vague recollection that when possible they did team ride.

 

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When I wrote my small booklet on Briggs and Moore, I spoke to a number of Wimbledon riders about this very subject. Their view was unanimous. Moore was the greatest; Briggs treated them like one of the opposition! This is what Bob Andrews said (and it is fairly typical of them all):


"...he {Ronnie] knew I could gate. He said "get to the first bend first, and leave a gap at about a foot from the line, if I need to I will come through." Bob said that's how they got a lot of 5-1s. He went on to say, "I then had a season riding with Barry - oh my God! I would gate, then leave a foot of room in case he wanted to come through. Usually, by the next bend, he would not just come through, but he would hang me on the fence. Briggs was a selfish rider."

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On 6/26/2024 at 2:41 PM, BOBBATH said:

 Thanks Norbold, If good old Bob Andrews says it then I believe it! Would the same apply to Ove, Peter and Bjorn do you think?

I forget where I read this,but it was probably in Classic Speedway, and it was on the lines of “ you didn’t need to leave a on gap for Ove , he would come through whether there was a gap or not and whether he needed to or not”. 

By all accounts it seems Ove had to win every race even if it meant knocking his own team mates out of the way ! Somewhat surprisingly the same was said about Nigel Boocock- by his own brother Eric !

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13 minutes ago, E I Addio said:

I forget where I read this,but it was probably in Classic Speedway, and it was on the lines of “ you didn’t need to leave a on gap for Ove , he would come through whether there was a gap or not and whether he needed to or not”. 

By all accounts it seems Ove had to win every race even if it meant knocking his own team mates out of the way ! Somewhat surprisingly the same was said about Nigel Boocock- by his own brother Eric !

Yes, sorry I've taken so long to answer your question BOBBATH, but I agree with the above comment on Ove Fundin. Even though he is now a good friend of mine, I have to say he was just as ruthless as Briggo and was not one for team riding!

 

 

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42 minutes ago, norbold said:

Yes, sorry I've taken so long to answer your question BOBBATH, but I agree with the above comment on Ove Fundin. Even though he is now a good friend of mine, I have to say he was just as ruthless as Briggo and was not one for team riding!

I saw Ove do a few tough moves.......one I saw him show respect to was Peter Craven

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8 hours ago, norbold said:

Yes, sorry I've taken so long to answer your question BOBBATH, but I agree with the above comment on Ove Fundin. Even though he is now a good friend of mine, I have to say he was just as ruthless as Briggo and was not one for team riding!

 

 

I heard Ron Mountford was one of the worst...

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I always figured Clive Featherby was the king of non team riding. Getting back to the Big Five we didn't mention the team riding of Peter Craven and Bjorn Knutsson- I would imagine Peter was just behind Ronnie -what about Bjorn was he more like Ove in that department- what do you think Norbold, I know that you saw Bjorn at West Ham every week in 1964.

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48 minutes ago, BOBBATH said:

I always figured Clive Featherby was the king of non team riding. Getting back to the Big Five we didn't mention the team riding of Peter Craven and Bjorn Knutsson- I would imagine Peter was just behind Ronnie -what about Bjorn was he more like Ove in that department- what do you think Norbold, I know that you saw Bjorn at West Ham every week in 1964.

Without looking up statistics and going purely from memory, all I can remember about Bjorn is that he seemed to win every race he was in at West Ham! I can't really remember him team riding, but I don't think he was as selfish as Briggo or Ove in the sense of knocking his own team mates out the way to get to the front - he was already there!

I saw Peter Craven mainly at New Cross and I don't think he ever really got to grips with the track. I always thought, purely from seeing him at the Frying Pan, that he was the worst of the Big Five, though that certainly wasn't the case looking at the overall statistics. So, I don't really remember him team riding much as he was struggling himself a lot of the time.

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15 hours ago, norbold said:

I saw Peter Craven mainly at New Cross and I don't think he ever really got to grips with the track. 

Don't forget the 1959 Tom Farndon Memorial meeting, when Peter won with 15 points. Briggs got 14, Moore 10 and Knutson 7.

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1 hour ago, BL65 said:

Don't forget the 1959 Tom Farndon Memorial meeting, when Peter won with 15 points. Briggs got 14, Moore 10 and Knutson 7.

Yes, I know he won that, but I didn't start going till 1960! Do you have any stats for Craven's appearances at New Cross before I start working through my programmes to see how correct my memory is?

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2 hours ago, norbold said:

Yes, I know he won that, but I didn't start going till 1960! Do you have any stats for Craven's appearances at New Cross before I start working through my programmes to see how correct my memory is?

26.04.53 New Cross v BELLE VUE 2 points from 3 rides as reserve (fell twice)
19.08.59 NEW CROSS v Wimbledon 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost once to Moore)
26.08.59 NEW CROSS v Southampton 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost once to Knutson but won another hear when Bjorn fell)
02.09.59 New Cross v BELLE VUE 12 from 5 rides (two wins)
09.09.59 NEW CROSS v World Stars 9 from 5 rides (2 wins, beat Fundin, lost to Knutson and Moore)
16.09.59 NEW CROSS v Poole 10+1 from 5 rides (2 wins)
23.09.59 Tom Farndon Trophy 15 from 5 rides (beat Briggs, Knutson and Moore)
25.05.60 Southern Riders' CQR (guest) 10 from 5 rides (3 wins)
03.08.60 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 6 rides (3 wins, paid win, ef in the other, 2 -1 to Briggs, one of which was the ef)
24.8.60 Tom Farndon Trophy 6 from 4 (withdrew from last ride, won one race, lost to Moore)
07.08.60 ENGLAND v Australasia 5+1 from 6 rides (won one race, lost to Briggs twice and Moore twice)
03.05.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 8 from 4 rides (2 wins and a second)
10.05.61 London v THE REST 9 from 4 rides (2 wins,  beat Moore and Briggs)
07.06.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 5 rides (3 wins)
26.07.61 ENGLAND v New Zealand v Australia WC Qualifier, 13 from 6 rides (4 wins, lost to Moore, beat Briggs twice)
16.08.61 NEW CROSS v Southampton 8 from 4 rides (one win, lost to Moore twice and Briggs)
23.08.61 NEW CROSS V The Kiwis (8+2 from 5 rides (no race wins, lost to Briggs twice and Moore)
06.09.61 Tom Farndon Trophy 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost to Briggs, beat Moore and Knutson)

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1 hour ago, BL65 said:

26.04.53 New Cross v BELLE VUE 2 points from 3 rides as reserve (fell twice)
19.08.59 NEW CROSS v Wimbledon 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost once to Moore)
26.08.59 NEW CROSS v Southampton 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost once to Knutson but won another hear when Bjorn fell)
02.09.59 New Cross v BELLE VUE 12 from 5 rides (two wins)
09.09.59 NEW CROSS v World Stars 9 from 5 rides (2 wins, beat Fundin, lost to Knutson and Moore)
16.09.59 NEW CROSS v Poole 10+1 from 5 rides (2 wins)
23.09.59 Tom Farndon Trophy 15 from 5 rides (beat Briggs, Knutson and Moore)
25.05.60 Southern Riders' CQR (guest) 10 from 5 rides (3 wins)
03.08.60 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 6 rides (3 wins, paid win, ef in the other, 2 -1 to Briggs, one of which was the ef)
24.8.60 Tom Farndon Trophy 6 from 4 (withdrew from last ride, won one race, lost to Moore)
07.08.60 ENGLAND v Australasia 5+1 from 6 rides (won one race, lost to Briggs twice and Moore twice)
03.05.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 8 from 4 rides (2 wins and a second)
10.05.61 London v THE REST 9 from 4 rides (2 wins,  beat Moore and Briggs)
07.06.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 5 rides (3 wins)
26.07.61 ENGLAND v New Zealand v Australia WC Qualifier, 13 from 6 rides (4 wins, lost to Moore, beat Briggs twice)
16.08.61 NEW CROSS v Southampton 8 from 4 rides (one win, lost to Moore twice and Briggs)
23.08.61 NEW CROSS V The Kiwis (8+2 from 5 rides (no race wins, lost to Briggs twice and Moore)
06.09.61 Tom Farndon Trophy 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost to Briggs, beat Moore and Knutson)

Some excellent stats here for the speedway researcher website, i know it is not New Cross, but it is against the big five riders:

Tuesday 22 August 1961: Southampton v NEW CROSS (Peter Craven 11 from 5 rides - 1 win) [lost to Briggs twice, and Knutsson].

Can I please add

 

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1 hour ago, RobbieB said:

Some excellent stats here for the speedway researcher website, i know it is not New Cross, but it is against the big five riders:

Tuesday 22 August 1961: Southampton v NEW CROSS (Peter Craven 11 from 5 rides - 1 win) [lost to Briggs twice, and Knutsson].

Can I please add

 

No, because I was asking about New Cross home matches. :D

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2 hours ago, BL65 said:


25.05.60 Southern Riders' CQR (guest) 10 from 5 rides (3 wins)
03.08.60 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 6 rides (3 wins, paid win, ef in the other, 2 -1 to Briggs, one of which was the ef)
24.8.60 Tom Farndon Trophy 6 from 4 (withdrew from last ride, won one race, lost to Moore)
07.08.60 ENGLAND v Australasia 5+1 from 6 rides (won one race, lost to Briggs twice and Moore twice)
03.05.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 8 from 4 rides (2 wins and a second)
10.05.61 London v THE REST 9 from 4 rides (2 wins,  beat Moore and Briggs)
07.06.61 New Cross v BELLE VUE 13+1 from 5 rides (3 wins)
26.07.61 ENGLAND v New Zealand v Australia WC Qualifier, 13 from 6 rides (4 wins, lost to Moore, beat Briggs twice)
16.08.61 NEW CROSS v Southampton 8 from 4 rides (one win, lost to Moore twice and Briggs)
23.08.61 NEW CROSS V The Kiwis (8+2 from 5 rides (no race wins, lost to Briggs twice and Moore)
06.09.61 Tom Farndon Trophy 12 from 5 rides (3 wins, lost to Briggs, beat Moore and Knutson) 

So, in the meetings I saw him in he scored at an average of 8.15 (including bonus points). Not bad, but not quite Big Five status.

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