BackInTheDHSS Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 6 minutes ago, Arthur54 said: Probably bigger crowds if you put the Premiership, Championship and National league crowds together Nope. Oxford got bigger crowds in the Championship than Poole last season. And probably on a par with them this season, despite the fact they are competing in three leagues. Crowds are so good we also don't have to 'worry' about which nights we race on. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trackrat Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, Arthur54 said: The tv footage lies then Proof? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur54 Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 9 minutes ago, Trackrat said: Proof? Have a look on Eurosport/Discovery, showed footage from Birmingham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 Just had a look at this thread to find the score as im away in Cornwall at the moment, racing sounds as if it was entertaining, the usual suspects are out in force as regards crowd size i see. My personal take on it apart from the sport in general not attracting massive crowds as in years gone by is streaming. BSN seem to do a great job with their streams according to those who subscribe, but what damage is it doing the clubs who need people in the stadium? Streaming will no doubt save people money on racedays, the worry is taking paying fans from the stadiums can only be a road to lose more clubs who wont be able to make ends meet. Tv meetings certainly are not increasing attendences BSN or Eurosport, the opposite effect appears to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 1 hour ago, bellevueace said: Just had a look at this thread to find the score as im away in Cornwall at the moment, racing sounds as if it was entertaining, the usual suspects are out in force as regards crowd size i see. My personal take on it apart from the sport in general not attracting massive crowds as in years gone by is streaming. BSN seem to do a great job with their streams according to those who subscribe, but what damage is it doing the clubs who need people in the stadium? Streaming will no doubt save people money on racedays, the worry is taking paying fans from the stadiums can only be a road to lose more clubs who wont be able to make ends meet. Tv meetings certainly are not increasing attendences BSN or Eurosport, the opposite effect appears to be the case. Whilst the BSN streams (which as you say are very good) may impact attendances, what about the people following the away team who purchase the stream? Away supporters at most tracks are in the minority and I would expect that a sizeable proportion of stream subscribers are following the away team. The purchase of a stream is approximately half the cost of attending a meeting. I don’t know what percentage of the stream fee finds its way to the club, but they will be getting money from people who would never have attended. Whilst we don’t have access to figures, look at the turnstile revenue shortfall on a streamed meeting and compare it with money received from the stream. Bottom line - is there a significant net loss or profit, which is more important than the number of people in attendance on the night? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 9 hours ago, Arthur54 said: Fixed race nights Poor crowds on non Wednesday fixtures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted June 25 Report Share Posted June 25 4 hours ago, Teromaafan said: Whilst the BSN streams (which as you say are very good) may impact attendances, what about the people following the away team who purchase the stream? Away supporters at most tracks are in the minority and I would expect that a sizeable proportion of stream subscribers are following the away team. The purchase of a stream is approximately half the cost of attending a meeting. I don’t know what percentage of the stream fee finds its way to the club, but they will be getting money from people who would never have attended. Whilst we don’t have access to figures, look at the turnstile revenue shortfall on a streamed meeting and compare it with money received from the stream. Bottom line - is there a significant net loss or profit, which is more important than the number of people in attendance on the night? I would say that away supporters would more likely stay at home and save on petrol, food, drink, and entrance fee plus dodgy forecasts.Away support has certainly fallen off a cliff from the days of Belle Vue, Coventry, Cradley Heath, Swindon etc racing on a Saturday, but there does appear to also be a sizable reduction in home support which ive witnessed myself, at one stage tv was seen as essential to raise awareness and promote the sport and increase attendences, i just think today it will just do the opposite. For me speedway will always be better live anyway. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 8 hours ago, bellevueace said: I would say that away supporters would more likely stay at home and save on petrol, food, drink, and entrance fee plus dodgy forecasts.Away support has certainly fallen off a cliff from the days of Belle Vue, Coventry, Cradley Heath, Swindon etc racing on a Saturday, but there does appear to also be a sizable reduction in home support which ive witnessed myself, at one stage tv was seen as essential to raise awareness and promote the sport and increase attendences, i just think today it will just do the opposite. For me speedway will always be better live anyway. Due to the way the sport is ran, there is no tribal feeling of "I must go" that you get with other team sports.. As, for a great many, the racing is the reason to be there, rather than the importance of the result.. Hence, many can comfortably stay away and watch it on the TV, and see it as a chance to "save a few quid", but still watch the racing.. As an example, Tungate's score the other night for KL could actually assist KL prevent his own team from making the play offs... If that happens, then Oxford would then be asking a lot of their "big" crowds to return next year in the same numbers I would suggest .. TV crowds show that fans, in the main, don't take it "too seriously" hence when they get a chance to see it without forking out any more cash than their TV subscription, then they do.. Promoters cannot complain about that as they set the operating model... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MP78 Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 13 hours ago, bellevueace said: I would say that away supporters would more likely stay at home and save on petrol, food, drink, and entrance fee plus dodgy forecasts.Away support has certainly fallen off a cliff from the days of Belle Vue, Coventry, Cradley Heath, Swindon etc racing on a Saturday, but there does appear to also be a sizable reduction in home support which ive witnessed myself, at one stage tv was seen as essential to raise awareness and promote the sport and increase attendences, i just think today it will just do the opposite. For me speedway will always be better live anyway. 100% agree that the live experience can't be bettered... I remember vividly taking my kids to their first meeting a few years ago and their faces were a picture as 4 riders hurtled towards the 1st bend showing no signs of giving an inch - That first experience has obviously stayed with them, because even as teenagers, I say I'm going to speedway and who wants to come and generally they are keen. If I ask if anyone is joining me to watch speedway on BSN or eurosport, then I know the answer already... they are not at all interested. So live will always reign supreme, but promoters have got to find new ways of applying the 'hook' in the first place. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackInTheDHSS Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 Agreed that live speedway will always be better and I'm one who wouldn't miss a meeting due to the TV cameras being there, but do understand why some people would give it a miss. Money is tight for many in this country and if they want to miss a match and save some money, they are always going to pick a meeting that's on TV - that way they won't miss anything. It's a natural philosophy I think. Plus, surely the TV money is there to negate this impact anyway. It's only really a concern if the crowds don't come back for the next meeting after the cameras have gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 52 minutes ago, MP78 said: 100% agree that the live experience can't be bettered... I remember vividly taking my kids to their first meeting a few years ago and their faces were a picture as 4 riders hurtled towards the 1st bend showing no signs of giving an inch - That first experience has obviously stayed with them, because even as teenagers, I say I'm going to speedway and who wants to come and generally they are keen. If I ask if anyone is joining me to watch speedway on BSN or eurosport, then I know the answer already... they are not at all interested. So live will always reign supreme, but promoters have got to find new ways of applying the 'hook' in the first place. I am always amazed that the live matches dont get promoted locally as separate entities.. The images portrayed on screen of a three quarters empty stadium the other night, does the Aces, and the sport, no favours... Many businesses would kill for two hours, prime time, worth of advertising being beamed out to the very large reach both locally and nationally that Eurosport has... UK Speedway seem to have no interest in showcasing their sport, either individually or as a collective, which I find baffling... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teromaafan Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 The main reason that I don’t attend that many away meetings is the uncertainty as to whether it will be on and if so, will it be completed. It seems that more and more meetings are postponed due to weather forecasts and the call can sometimes be made late. I’m too old to see the funny side of travelling a couple of hours or more to probably not see a wheel turned. If the meeting is streamed/televised though, I don’t have make any commitment until tapes up. Greater certainty of meetings taking place can only be achieved if tracks can be prepped and covered. As we all know though, this will never happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPD444 Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 22 hours ago, Teromaafan said: Whilst the BSN streams (which as you say are very good) may impact attendances, what about the people following the away team who purchase the stream? Away supporters at most tracks are in the minority and I would expect that a sizeable proportion of stream subscribers are following the away team. The purchase of a stream is approximately half the cost of attending a meeting. I don’t know what percentage of the stream fee finds its way to the club, but they will be getting money from people who would never have attended. Whilst we don’t have access to figures, look at the turnstile revenue shortfall on a streamed meeting and compare it with money received from the stream. Bottom line - is there a significant net loss or profit, which is more important than the number of people in attendance on the night? The solution is available and used by t.v.companies in the states. All NFL games are streamed and available to purchase to watch on the t.v. accept for the city where the game is being played unless the game is a sell out when it then becomes available. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted June 26 Report Share Posted June 26 On 6/25/2024 at 3:50 PM, bellevueace said: Just had a look at this thread to find the score as im away in Cornwall at the moment, racing sounds as if it was entertaining, the usual suspects are out in force as regards crowd size i see. My personal take on it apart from the sport in general not attracting massive crowds as in years gone by is streaming. BSN seem to do a great job with their streams according to those who subscribe, but what damage is it doing the clubs who need people in the stadium? Streaming will no doubt save people money on racedays, the worry is taking paying fans from the stadiums can only be a road to lose more clubs who wont be able to make ends meet. Tv meetings certainly are not increasing attendences BSN or Eurosport, the opposite effect appears to be the case. You had a look at this thread to find the score?! Have you never heard of Live Updates? Organised and run by the fans, for the fans, it's only been going for 20 years ... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 On 6/26/2024 at 4:26 PM, SPD444 said: The solution is available and used by t.v.companies in the states. All NFL games are streamed and available to purchase to watch on the t.v. accept for the city where the game is being played unless the game is a sell out when it then becomes available. All NFL games are shown live without regional restrictions across the whole of the USA via either CBS, Fox, ESPN, NBC & ABC. The TV companies will be paying a combined annual fee of just over $10billion until 2033. There are varying degrees of local restrictions on games via streaming channels but this amount of coverage/subscribers is tiny in comparison to the views via the television channels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 The unpalatable truth for us fans is that people don’t like speedway. I’ve listed the lengths the Aces have gone to both currently and in the past and I’ve seen first hand the apathy towards the sport when I’m banging the drum with friends, family & colleagues. Our support is literally dying out and something needs to change to make it more appealing. The meeting on Monday was one of the best I’ve seen in over 50 years of watching the sport but you could have it on a loop in the Arndale or wherever and it would make little to no difference to the long term support. It’s a worry, a big worry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted June 28 Report Share Posted June 28 On 6/26/2024 at 7:15 PM, Roger Jacobs said: You had a look at this thread to find the score?! Have you never heard of Live Updates? Organised and run by the fans, for the fans, it's only been going for 20 years ... For your information i was camping had no electric hook up and a phone that needed charging, not easy in parts of the Cornish countryside, the result wasnt that important so i got my phone charged when it was convinient, whats with the sarky post anyway? Could have just said nothing couldnt you? As for updates ive only been following speedway 56 years so suprisingly i am aware thank you. I dont belong to the generations addicted to the phone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 7 Report Share Posted July 7 On 6/28/2024 at 11:40 AM, bellevueace said: For your information i was camping had no electric hook up and a phone that needed charging, not easy in parts of the Cornish countryside, the result wasnt that important so i got my phone charged when it was convinient, whats with the sarky post anyway? Could have just said nothing couldnt you? As for updates ive only been following speedway 56 years so suprisingly i am aware thank you. I don't belong to the generations addicted to the phone. For your information: you didn't say all of that did you ... how was anyone reading your message expected to know your situation? It wasn't a sarky post, it was genuine - there are still fans who don't know about Live Updates. Even so - when you'd got your phone charged, you still came here for the result? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted July 9 Report Share Posted July 9 On 7/7/2024 at 3:19 PM, Roger Jacobs said: For your information: you didn't say all of that did you ... how was anyone reading your message expected to know your situation? It wasn't a sarky post, it was genuine - there are still fans who don't know about Live Updates. Even so - when you'd got your phone charged, you still came here for the result? I actually did state i was in Cornwall i didnt think it necessary to qualify my post with all the background details, as for your update comment ending with its only been going 20 years came across as sarky to me. In this case there were more comments on the meeting thread from around the country to give me an idea of the standard of racing than on the updates thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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