Berwick v Glasgow , BSN thingy , 6/4/24 @7pm

[IainB]

22 minutes ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

But Glasgow, and obviously any other team who have a rider who fails a test trackside, deserve to be punished on the night. 

Why? If he'd been randomly tested at home the day before would Glasgow have had a facility? Will they be granted a facility next time they ride, or are they expected to ride with 6 for the rest of the season?

Not sure any other team sport wouldn't allow a replacement, would a football team be forced to field 10 players?

[Fromafar]

6 minutes ago, Joseq7 said:

Hypothetically, in your opinion, should a meeting be rerun if a failed test ever turned out to be inaccurate? 

The tests are seldom inaccurate it’s just conformation of what’s substance it is.It is a test for banned substances whether the were taken by mistake or not.

[Noelinho]

The difficulty on the night is who can replace them in time? Connor Bailey was at the track, but his average is too high. On a purely practical level, it's difficult to replace a rider at such short notice, and whilst a number eight is an option, we all know teams won't take one to every meeting because it's another expense. We only used one in the playoffs because they were the playoffs (and we were already running R/R). In normal matches, no teams really going to do that.

In terms of re-running a match later, I think fans might find that even worse, if they've paid to see a meeting that then doesn't count.

It's a tricky problem to solve when the rider system isn't a squad system. Football teams bring more than 11 players to a match - it makes it much easier. I don't see an easy, cost effective way of doing it in speedway.

[Fromafar]

5 minutes ago, Noelinho said:

The difficulty on the night is who can replace them in time? Connor Bailey was at the track, but his average is too high. On a purely practical level, it's difficult to replace a rider at such short notice, and whilst a number eight is an option, we all know teams won't take one to every meeting because it's another expense. We only used one in the playoffs because they were the playoffs (and we were already running R/R). In normal matches, no teams really going to do that.

In terms of re-running a match later, I think fans might find that even worse, if they've paid to see a meeting that then doesn't count.

It's a tricky problem to solve when the rider system isn't a squad system. Football teams bring more than 11 players to a match - it makes it much easier. I don't see an easy, cost effective way of doing it in speedway.

In days gone by Teams used to “ borrow” a home junior.Not Ideal but a solution to 4 rider heats.

[RoundTheBoards]

24 minutes ago, iainb said:

Not sure any other team sport wouldn't allow a replacement, would a football team be forced to field 10 players?

Surely football's equivalent of being excluded from a speedway meeting is a red card?    So yes, a football team would be forced to play with 10 players.   They could make a substitution to change formation, but they'd still only have 10 players.   Just the same as Glasgow could cover Complin's rides with a reserve, whilst still only having 6 riders.

[IainB]

15 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

Surely football's equivalent of being excluded from a speedway meeting is a red card?    So yes, a football team would be forced to play with 10 players.   They could make a substitution to change formation, but they'd still only have 10 players.   Just the same as Glasgow could cover Complin's rides with a reserve, whilst still only having 6 riders.

You don't get red carded before a match starts though do you? I'm not sure but once a football team is declared an hour before kick off and a player is injured in warm up they can still be replaced. Until the meeting/match actually starts surely you should be able to make any changes you wish as long as it fits within the points limit

Edited April 7 by iainb

[Cast1rn]

15 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

Surely football's equivalent of being excluded from a speedway meeting is a red card?    So yes, a football team would be forced to play with 10 players.   They could make a substitution to change formation, but they'd still only have 10 players.   Just the same as Glasgow could cover Complin's rides with a reserve, whilst still only having 6 riders.

I see the comparison, however the incident occurred off the track before the meeting had started. So using your football analogy the match wouldn't have started and a replacement to the starting 11 would be used.

The argument can go back and forward with what's the solution, take Boxers for example, they get tested any time and if caught a replacement can be brought in so the boxing fixture isn't cancelled.

The point I was trying to make earlier is the SCB are trying to run a professional anti doping scheme in an extremely amateur run sport.

If you and I get sick we go to boots and get stuff to make us feel better, we go to the doctor's or dentist and are prescribed medication we take it. WADA rules say this isn't allowed.

These aren't "elite athletes" they are brickys, roofers, factory workers who ride bikes with no breaks for 5 months of the year.

If they wanna play big boy/person/toaster  games then have random samples anytime 24/7,  365 days.

 

 

[Fromafar]

4 minutes ago, Cast1rn said:

I see the comparison, however the incident occurred off the track before the meeting had started. So using your football analogy the match wouldn't have started and a replacement to the starting 11 would be used.

The argument can go back and forward with what's the solution, take Boxers for example, they get tested any time and if caught a replacement can be brought in so the boxing fixture isn't cancelled.

The point I was trying to make earlier is the SCB are trying to run a professional anti doping scheme in an extremely amateur run sport.

If you and I get sick we go to boots and get stuff to make us feel better, we go to the doctor's or dentist and are prescribed medication we take it. WADA rules say this isn't allowed.

These aren't "elite athletes" they are brickys, roofers, factory workers who ride bikes with no breaks for 5 months of the year.

If they wanna play big boy/person/toaster  games then have random samples anytime 24/7,  365 days.

 

 

It all depends on what you can buy in Boots then.!!

[Mr Blobby]

1 hour ago, SharpenRake said:

Really, just to be clear, I wasn't joking.

Snowflake.

[j2ohh]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Why? If he'd been randomly tested at home the day before would Glasgow have had a facility? Will they be granted a facility next time they ride, or are they expected to ride with 6 for the rest of the season?

Not sure any other team sport wouldn't allow a replacement, would a football team be forced to field 10 players?

 

20 minutes ago, iainb said:

You don't get red carded before a match starts though do you? I'm not sure but once a football team is declared an hour before kick off and a player is injured in warm up they can still be replaced. Until the meeting/match actually starts surely you should be able to make any changes you wish as long as it fits within the points limit

now then , now then , now then. bored are we  ? poo stirer .  please return to your own thread and stop stirring it up .

[Binman]

54 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

In days gone by Teams used to “ borrow” a home junior.Not Ideal but a solution to 4 rider heats.

Plenty of second half riders but all on smaller machines

[allthegearbutnaeidea]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Why? If he'd been randomly tested at home the day before would Glasgow have had a facility? Will they be granted a facility next time they ride, or are they expected to ride with 6 for the rest of the season?

Not sure any other team sport wouldn't allow a replacement, would a football team be forced to field 10 players?

Because the team manager has confirmed that all riders are fit to ride? And so therefore has lied if he’s signed the form. If a rider 2nd in the averages that hated a particular away track tested positive, and was replaced with RR, the team would be better off, in what way is that fair to the complying team? There’s no easy answer, don’t get me wrong, but you can’t class it as an injury, or missing for riding for another team imo.

[DSC67]

2 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

But Glasgow, and obviously any other team who have a rider who fails a test trackside, deserve to be punished on the night. 

Isn’t it normal practice to suspend a rider or any other sportsperson until the outcome of the second test only then can any punishment be applied ? 

[Technik]

1 hour ago, Cast1rn said:

I see the comparison, however the incident occurred off the track before the meeting had started. So using your football analogy the match wouldn't have started and a replacement to the starting 11 would be used.

The argument can go back and forward with what's the solution, take Boxers for example, they get tested any time and if caught a replacement can be brought in so the boxing fixture isn't cancelled.

The point I was trying to make earlier is the SCB are trying to run a professional anti doping scheme in an extremely amateur run sport.

If you and I get sick we go to boots and get stuff to make us feel better, we go to the doctor's or dentist and are prescribed medication we take it. WADA rules say this isn't allowed.

These aren't "elite athletes" they are brickys, roofers, factory workers who ride bikes with no breaks for 5 months of the year.

If they wanna play big boy/person/toaster  games then have random samples anytime 24/7,  365 days.

 

 

Prior to the test the selected party will be asked if they have taken any drugs within the last 48 hours, after their reply usually "No" they will be asked again but now they will be promted ti include perscription or over the counter drugs the reply again is usually "No" they will then be asked if they remember the last time they took any drugs & again prompted with for a headache or muscle strain or anything at all. So in all reality it matters not how professional or amateur the sport looks on the outside or what business the riders are in away from their racing. If it turns out to be an over the counter drug or perscribed then a severe slapped wrist is the likley outcome but if recreational drugs or alcohol are the cause then a ban is the result. I know the Glasgow promotion are not short of finances but are they willing to defend a 39 year old reserve through a case that will tarnish anybody involved.

[IainB]

1 hour ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said:

Because the team manager has confirmed that all riders are fit to ride? And so therefore has lied if he’s signed the form. If a rider 2nd in the averages that hated a particular away track tested positive, and was replaced with RR, the team would be better off, in what way is that fair to the complying team? There’s no easy answer, don’t get me wrong, but you can’t class it as an injury, or missing for riding for another team imo.

So, what happens if the match is rained off before it starts or is cancelled prior to heat 10? Are you suggesting that when it's re-staged that the team with the offending rider should only start with 6 and no facility? They may even have a completely different team with new signings, injuries etc. It seems to me that this is a glaring loophole that needs closing ASAP. At the end of the day it cheats the fans who have paid to watch 2 7 man teams in 15 races

Edited April 7 by iainb

[IainB]

1 hour ago, j2ohh said:

 

now then , now then , now then. bored are we  ? poo stirer .  please return to your own thread and stop stirring it up .

Doing your best Jimmy Savile impression there... you need to find a new hero 

[screm]

So what did we all think of the actual meeting.

[Normski]

Just now, screm said:

So what did we all think of the actual meeting.

Enjoyable meeting to be fair. Kerr was superb for the Bandits 

[DSC67]

2 hours ago, Cast1rn said:

I see the comparison, however the incident occurred off the track before the meeting had started. So using your football analogy the match wouldn't have started and a replacement to the starting 11 would be used.

The argument can go back and forward with what's the solution, take Boxers for example, they get tested any time and if caught a replacement can be brought in so the boxing fixture isn't cancelled.

The point I was trying to make earlier is the SCB are trying to run a professional anti doping scheme in an extremely amateur run sport.

If you and I get sick we go to boots and get stuff to make us feel better, we go to the doctor's or dentist and are prescribed medication we take it. WADA rules say this isn't allowed.

These aren't "elite athletes" they are brickys, roofers, factory workers who ride bikes with no breaks for 5 months of the year.

If they wanna play big boy/person/toaster  games then have random samples anytime 24/7,  365 days.

 

 

The racing may not have started but the meeting started when the riders sign in , sports like football and athletics usually do the testing after the match or race has finished and they are suspended from the next match or whatever 

[RoundTheBoards]

2 hours ago, iainb said:

You don't get red carded before a match starts though do you? 

From the laws of Football:    "A person can be sent off from the time the referee goes onto the pitch for the pre-match inspection until the referee leaves the pitch after the end of the game, including during half-time, the break before extra time, extra time, half-time of extra time and penalties."

So pretty much the same as speedway where the referee takes charge from the moment he arrives.  The referee was within his rights to exclude Complin from the meeting