secsy1 Posted March 29 Report Share Posted March 29 Had the most unfortunate experience of going to this meeting today and what a total waste of time. Firstly I would like to know if the start marshalls have any form of training or have to attend any form of seminar. Do they have to understand the rules? A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performances but how can you try to explain to a group of 7 newbies about tractor racing for 20 minutes. Total farce of a meeting and Belle Vue should be ashamed of how they dealt with such a farce. Credit to the riders who actually tried in difficult circumstances, but others need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves do I really want to do this! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 How big was the crowd? Did it get into the hundreds? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil The Ace Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 10 hours ago, secsy1 said: Had the most unfortunate experience of going to this meeting today and what a total waste of time. Firstly I would like to know if the start marshalls have any form of training or have to attend any form of seminar. Do they have to understand the rules? A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performances but how can you try to explain to a group of 7 newbies about tractor racing for 20 minutes. Total farce of a meeting and Belle Vue should be ashamed of how they dealt with such a farce. Credit to the riders who actually tried in difficult circumstances, but others need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves do I really want to do this! Yes. It wasn’t a good look for us. Very rare indeed. the start Marshall’s were standing in as our normal ones were away regarding the track. And this is a massive bug bare of mine and this is my opinion why a lot of riders never make the step up from NL to premiership. that track was absolutely spot on yesterday despite all the rain we had. The premiership boys would have loved that. but because the youth system and NL give all these youngsters tracks like motorways they don’t know how to ride when there is a bit of grip. they then have to learn how to ride with grip in competitive action thus knocking there confidence and eventually being lost to the sport. so I dont like doing this but I blame the riders for not having the skill to race and not the track itself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted March 30 Author Report Share Posted March 30 It was a decent crowd, possibly into 300 until the tractor racing started and saw several families leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 12 hours ago, secsy1 said: Had the most unfortunate experience of going to this meeting today and what a total waste of time. Firstly I would like to know if the start marshalls have any form of training or have to attend any form of seminar. Do they have to understand the rules? A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performances but how can you try to explain to a group of 7 newbies about tractor racing for 20 minutes. Total farce of a meeting and Belle Vue should be ashamed of how they dealt with such a farce. Credit to the riders who actually tried in difficult circumstances, but others need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves do I really want to do this! By way of explanation to the 7 newbies. A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performance so it was decided to spend 20 minutes making the track safer for the young lads taking part who were getting into difficulty. Rider safety is paramount. The interval was dispensed with and the whole meeting was completed in under two hours. If less than two hours is “a complete waste of time” then maybe speedway isn’t for you. With regards the start marshals can you be more specific with regards any perceived issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldace Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 I'm beginning to wonder whether we have lost our direction a bit with the Colts. I attended yesterday but became quite disillusioned and left before the end, something I've only done previously because of other commitments. I'd say that yesterday's meeting was the worst I have seen since the move to the NSS. So much went wrong and, whilst most wasn't deliberately intended, something doesn't feel right. I have always enjoyed the Colts and attended as much as I can. But we seem to be switching the focus away from giving the young guys a chance and relying on older riders who frankly are not going to progress. Nothing personal, but I'd say using Marson and Muff isn't what this league is about. My view is that we should be using younger riders looking for a chance to shine, we saw a few in the Leicester team. Maybe this is one of the reasons the attendance was so poor for a Bank Holiday meeting? I, like many others, will never forget the first match at the NSS and the home debut of Dan Bewley. I'm sure that experience has made watching him progress even more enjoyable. And, in subsequent years, there were more young riders to follow like Sam McGurk recently, not all made it but following them was interesting. Indeed, watching Freddy Hodder progress has been great. I may be wrong but I seem to remember two years ago he had his first race win when Harry McGurk shepherd him home. Yesterday Harry looked a very different rider and I wonder whether he can get back to the form he showed then. He doesn't look comfortable on the bike. I know not all will agree but this is not meant to be negative, it's just an observation you may well disagree. . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted March 30 Report Share Posted March 30 16 hours ago, Phil The Ace said: Yes. It wasn’t a good look for us. Very rare indeed. the start Marshall’s were standing in as our normal ones were away regarding the track. And this is a massive bug bare of mine and this is my opinion why a lot of riders never make the step up from NL to premiership. that track was absolutely spot on yesterday despite all the rain we had. The premiership boys would have loved that. but because the youth system and NL give all these youngsters tracks like motorways they don’t know how to ride when there is a bit of grip. they then have to learn how to ride with grip in competitive action thus knocking there confidence and eventually being lost to the sport. so I dont like doing this but I blame the riders for not having the skill to race and not the track itself. You make a good point. It's a similar situation to riding in the wet, clubs don't want poor crowds, so call meetings off. Therefore riders don't get much experience riding in the rain, but once we get to play-off / KOC finals in October, there's no option but to get on with it. So riders have to race in the rain, but have never experienced these conditions before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 23 hours ago, ouch said: By way of explanation to the 7 newbies. A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performance so it was decided to spend 20 minutes making the track safer for the young lads taking part who were getting into difficulty. Rider safety is paramount. The interval was dispensed with and the whole meeting was completed in under two hours. If less than two hours is “a complete waste of time” then maybe speedway isn’t for you. With regards the start marshals can you be more specific with regards any perceived issues? If you do not know what was the problem with the start marshals then maybe speedway is not for you. Speedway does have rules and if the fools officiating are not aware of them they should not be in the position to officiate. The start marshal shall raise a red flag when the red lights come on. Riders disqualified under the 2 minute rule are eligible to be re instated going off 15 metres, not from the tapes. Pity that the clerk of the course had to come out of the pits to instruct them what to do. Even last year 3 lap and 5 lap races. Criticism is constructive if it is listened to and observed. This was a perfect opportunity for riders to learn, but instead decided by most to be throttle jockeys with the consequences. Credit to the riders who actually tried in difficult circumstances, but others need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves do I really want to do this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 (edited) 2 hours ago, secsy1 said: If you do not know what was the problem with the start marshals then maybe speedway is not for you. Speedway does have rules and if the fools officiating are not aware of them they should not be in the position to officiate. The start marshal shall raise a red flag when the red lights come on. Riders disqualified under the 2 minute rule are eligible to be re instated going off 15 metres, not from the tapes. Pity that the clerk of the course had to come out of the pits to instruct them what to do. Even last year 3 lap and 5 lap races. Criticism is constructive if it is listened to and observed. This was a perfect opportunity for riders to learn, but instead decided by most to be throttle jockeys with the consequences. Credit to the riders who actually tried in difficult circumstances, but others need to take a long hard look at themselves and ask themselves do I really want to do this! One rider from each side was guilty of exceeding the time allowance. One rider was informed by his team manager that he was to go off 15m and he duly arrived at the start using the 15m marker set out by the marshals. One rider was not informed by his manager and he incorrectly arrived at tapes to start the race. The marshals & ref didn’t know if this was the original rider or a reserve replacement as the manager hadn’t let anyone know how his team was to be formulated for this heat, indeed this was announced over the PA system. There was then a delay whilst confirmation was sort from the manager and once this was established the rider was shown to his starting position by the start marshals. Not really an issue on a sunny afternoon but I can see how the managers actions could cause dissatisfaction from some of the crowd. I’m sure he will learn from it. Well done to the riders for provided some great entertainment and the track staff and promotion for provided track time for these future league riders when so few don’t invest in the future of the sport. Edited March 31 by ouch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpeedwaySlider72 Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 On 3/29/2024 at 9:12 PM, secsy1 said: A pre start shower definitely affected the track and rider performances but how can you try to explain to a group of 7 newbies about tractor racing for 20 minutes. It is quite common in other sports where weather is a factor. Have you been to a cricket match where an extended time period can be required following rain to dry the outfield and ready the square? Even for tennis at Wimbledon the roof on Centre Court takes 10 minutes to close, and it then takes a further 20-30 minutes for the air management system to re-create the correct conditions. Such delays are common in weather dependant sports and most sensibly minded 'newbies' would be accepting of this within a reasonable timeframe. I wonder if organisers in other sports get the same hammering that speedway promoters do! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted March 31 Author Report Share Posted March 31 It is far too easy for most posters to iron over the problems and make excuses instead of addressing them. Or even asking what a problem is when they already know the answer Surely after the down pour it would have been advisable to scrape the top off and tyre pack the track from the start. No messing around or problems and as long as the announcer tells everyone what is going on they can understand and appreciate the problem. It was a poor advert for speedway and anyone new visiting speedway for the first time would be put off. A dying sport and this is partially the reason why and with fans up their own backsides defending mediocrity how can it survive. I am done with Belle Vue Speedway after many years as a visiting fan, never again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 2 hours ago, ouch said: One rider from each side was guilty of exceeding the time allowance. One rider was informed by his team manager that he was to go off 15m and he duly arrived at the start using the 15m marker set out by the marshals. One rider was not informed by his manager and he incorrectly arrived at tapes to start the race. The marshals & ref didn’t know if this was the original rider or a reserve replacement as the manager hadn’t let anyone know how his team was to be formulated for this heat, indeed this was announced over the PA system. There was then a delay whilst confirmation was sort from the manager and once this was established the rider was shown to his starting position by the start marshals. Not really an issue on a sunny afternoon but I can see how the managers actions could cause dissatisfaction from some of the crowd. I’m sure he will learn from it. Well done to the riders for provided some great entertainment and the track staff and promotion for provided track time for these future league riders when so few don’t invest in the future of the sport. Spot on... It's the THIRD level of a small minority sport.. Where even the top two leagues hardly register any recognition from the national media.. "Paid/Subsidised Training" for new lads is my take on the NDL, augmented by a few lads who still like a blast round after riding for many years but never really getting any better than NDL standard.. Go along, pay your money, and watch the racing, and hopefully it is good (at the NSS it almost always is),.. And that stands for all leagues.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 5 minutes ago, secsy1 said: It is far too easy for most posters to iron over the problems and make excuses instead of addressing them. Or even asking what a problem is when they already know the answer Surely after the down pour it would have been advisable to scrape the top off and tyre pack the track from the start. No messing around or problems and as long as the announcer tells everyone what is going on they can understand and appreciate the problem. It was a poor advert for speedway and anyone new visiting speedway for the first time would be put off. A dying sport and this is partially the reason why and with fans up their own backsides defending mediocrity how can it survive. I am done with Belle Vue Speedway after many years as a visiting fan, never again. Mark Lemon will be devastated.... An "amateur level" speedway meeting didn't quite go to plan and you will never attend again? Is your seat an "end of aisle" one, by the way? If so, can you let me know the seat number, I have a bad back so need the leg room of the aisle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted March 31 Report Share Posted March 31 10 minutes ago, secsy1 said: It is far too easy for most posters to iron over the problems and make excuses instead of addressing them. Or even asking what a problem is when they already know the answer Surely after the down pour it would have been advisable to scrape the top off and tyre pack the track from the start. No messing around or problems and as long as the announcer tells everyone what is going on they can understand and appreciate the problem. It was a poor advert for speedway and anyone new visiting speedway for the first time would be put off. A dying sport and this is partially the reason why and with fans up their own backsides defending mediocrity how can it survive. I am done with Belle Vue Speedway after many years as a visiting fan, never again. Sorry to hear that. Just out of interest where do you watch your speedway most often as we could take a look and try and emulate them. It’s was announced many times what was going on during the interviews with the lads. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMW Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 On 3/31/2024 at 3:24 PM, mikebv said: Mark Lemon will be devastated.... An "amateur level" speedway meeting didn't quite go to plan and you will never attend again? Is your seat an "end of aisle" one, by the way? If so, can you let me know the seat number, I have a bad back so need the leg room of the aisle... The fact that any fan wants to walk away should be a concern ! For every one that says they are walking away there are 10 just doing it without so much as a bye or leave. this is where the problem lies with the NDL people keep trotting out this line ‘it’s only a training league’ okay then make it free. People are expected to pay good money they would like to see a return on that investment. with regards to the riders, it’s easy to belittle the league but, they take it very seriously as they want to progress but unless the powers that be stop using it as a political football and focus on making it a league that riders can be proud to be part of then the higher league clubs will carry on having to fly riders half way round the world at great cost. end of chat 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
secsy1 Posted April 4 Author Report Share Posted April 4 On 3/31/2024 at 3:24 PM, mikebv said: Mark Lemon will be devastated.... An "amateur level" speedway meeting didn't quite go to plan and you will never attend again? Is your seat an "end of aisle" one, by the way? If so, can you let me know the seat number, I have a bad back so need the leg room of the aisle... So you are one of the Lemony snicket lickers and a to boost. If it is Amateur Level then we are being robbed, it should be free It does not matter where I sat, if you have a bad back a like you will not mind paying for 2 seats then. On 3/31/2024 at 3:28 PM, ouch said: Sorry to hear that. Just out of interest where do you watch your speedway most often as we could take a look and try and emulate them. It’s was announced many times what was going on during the interviews with the lads. Straight from the horses mouth so to speak. Wolverhampton has closed unfortunately Well if you understand half of the garbage that comes out of a horses mouth well good for you, 99.9% can not understand horse talk 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 (edited) 1 hour ago, secsy1 said: So you are one of the Lemony snicket lickers and a to boost. If it is Amateur Level then we are being robbed, it should be free It does not matter where I sat, if you have a bad back a like you will not mind paying for 2 seats then. Wolverhampton has closed unfortunately Well if you understand half of the garbage that comes out of a horses mouth well good for you, 99.9% can not understand horse talk Bless.... Its the NDL mate.. Maybe these lads get their expenses covered at best... And I cannot see the Aces making too much out of it, in fact, probably subsidising it.. But, it may deliver several Championship level reserves and SS's over the next few years, and maybe even some of a standard higher.. Personally, couldn't give a monkeys about any of the leagues given the way they are ran, but Speedway is still a good night out, especially at the NSS.. Edited April 4 by mikebv 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 4 Report Share Posted April 4 2 hours ago, TMW said: The fact that any fan wants to walk away should be a concern ! For every one that says they are walking away there are 10 just doing it without so much as a bye or leave. this is where the problem lies with the NDL people keep trotting out this line ‘it’s only a training league’ okay then make it free. People are expected to pay good money they would like to see a return on that investment. with regards to the riders, it’s easy to belittle the league but, they take it very seriously as they want to progress but unless the powers that be stop using it as a political football and focus on making it a league that riders can be proud to be part of then the higher league clubs will carry on having to fly riders half way round the world at great cost. end of chat It's paid practice, and gives the lads some experience of riding in a (however contrived), team concept... If fans don't want to watch it, then it will stop.. If fans want to take any of the UK leagues ultra seriously then they are a very accommodating of the way the promoters run them, and obviously happy to collude in the "made up stuff".... Therefore. Let's just let 14 lads turn up and ride, some with dreams of stardom, and some with a desire to keep riding because they love it, with some also wanting to help out the new ones.. It still costs these lads a fair few.quid to compete, so some payment to help offset those costs is more than reasonable, therefore an admission fee is also reasonable given you can still get some excellent entertainment, particularly at the NSS.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 13 hours ago, mikebv said: Bless.... Its the NDL mate.. Maybe these lads get their expenses covered at best... And I cannot see the Aces making too much out of it, in fact, probably subsidising it.. But, it may deliver several Championship level reserves and SS's over the next few years, and maybe even some of a standard higher.. Personally, couldn't give a monkeys about any of the leagues given the way they are ran, but Speedway is still a good night out, especially at the NSS.. He’s another troll. Had me as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted April 5 Report Share Posted April 5 On 3/30/2024 at 7:37 AM, Phil The Ace said: Yes. It wasn’t a good look for us. Very rare indeed. the start Marshall’s were standing in as our normal ones were away regarding the track. And this is a massive bug bare of mine and this is my opinion why a lot of riders never make the step up from NL to premiership. that track was absolutely spot on yesterday despite all the rain we had. The premiership boys would have loved that. but because the youth system and NL give all these youngsters tracks like motorways they don’t know how to ride when there is a bit of grip. they then have to learn how to ride with grip in competitive action thus knocking there confidence and eventually being lost to the sport. so I dont like doing this but I blame the riders for not having the skill to race and not the track itself. 1. Always open for a guest booking - Start Marshals should receive training from the CofC and as a licenced official will have a copy of the rule book. 2. Leicester also provide the Cubs with a grippy track and I am always fearful at the start of Heat 2 the first time the away reserves drop the clutch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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