Beirao Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 If the NL/PL split had been averted would West Ham, Glasgow, Sunderland and Newport have been opened https://classicspeedwaymemories.webador.co.uk/march-2024/going-back-in-time-march-1964 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 Yup, I reckon so- Norwich had closed so NL were down to 6 tracks. PL was on the up so I think all 3 PL tracks would have opened up anyway. Interesting thread though and I'd be interested in other folks' thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 The split could have been averted in one of two ways. Firstly, a PL team from 1963 could have joined the NL to replace Southampton. (Norwich did not close until the end of 1964). Wolverhampton as reigning PL champions were the 'chosen ones' but there was never any prospect of Mike Parker going down that route. Even if he had been persuaded to do so, Parker was still in expansionist mode and nothing was going to stop him opening new tracks. He had lost part of his empire (an interest in Middlesbrough and Stoke) at the end of 1962 when he and Reg Fearman went their separate ways, so he had some ground to make up. The second option was one league comprising NL and PL tracks. The NL promoters would almost certainly not have wanted Newport and Sunderland to be included, but probably the only way amalgamation could have come about at that point would have been for them to back down and allow the new tracks in. The issue was that the NL promoters believed this would have made the league 'too big'. With Southampton's demise the NL was down to 6 teams. Rayleigh did not stay in the league for 1964 and with the closure of Stoke this reduced the number of tracks to 11. Subsequent events showed that there was no reason why a new league of 19 teams could not have worked, i.e. the 17 remaining tracks from 1963 plus the new ones at Newport and Sunderland. After all, the new British League of 18 tracks in 1965 was increased to 19 in 1966. Glasgow would have opened anyway as it was a relocation of Trevor Redmond's promotion from St Austell. Trevor finally found a (slightly) more permanent home for his team after being based at Neath in 1962 and St Austell in 1963. West Ham would almost certainly have fallen by the wayside as Charles Ochiltree and co. only re-opened the track in 1964 to make the NL numbers up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 53 minutes ago, BL65 said: West Ham would almost certainly have fallen by the wayside as Charles Ochiltree and co. only re-opened the track in 1964 to make the NL numbers up. I'm sure you are right about that. So, for some of us at least, the NL/PL split was a great blessing! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 59 minutes ago, norbold said: I'm sure you are right about that. So, for some of us at least, the NL/PL split was a great blessing! But if the two leagues had continued would West Ham have been a possible replacement for Norwich who closed at the end of 1964. (Alternatively of course King's Lynn might have been admitted to the league in 65 instead of running open licence. If conflict was averted by amalgamation in 1964, I would guess no West Ham, Newport or Sunderland but yes to Glasgow (Edinburgh need for a local rival, strong crowd base and sport's history in Glasgow). In this alternative history my best guess is that Mike Parker would have opened Newport in 1969 (possibly instead of Doncaster) and Sunderland would have waited until 1971. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted March 21 Report Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, BL65 said: The split could have been averted in one of two ways. Firstly, a PL team from 1963 could have joined the NL to replace Southampton. (Norwich did not close until the end of 1964). Wolverhampton as reigning PL champions were the 'chosen ones' but there was never any prospect of Mike Parker going down that route. Other solutions were suggested, including a PL Select that rode home matches on 6/12 different Provincial tracks, or a Swedish 'touring team' that rode only away matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beirao Posted March 21 Author Report Share Posted March 21 2 hours ago, arnieg said: Other solutions were suggested, including a PL Select that rode home matches on 6/12 different Provincial tracks, or a Swedish 'touring team' that rode only away matches. Wasn't the PL Select to ride on NL tracks to fill out their fixture list? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted March 22 Report Share Posted March 22 The Wolverhampton Express & Star reported (21.11.63) that the SCB discussed a scheme for three regional teams to join the National League. There was further consideration of this plan the following week with Wolves, Sheffield and Exeter the suggested home bases of these teams (WE&S 29.11.63) Eric Linden also suggested a PL Select as a National League team in Speedway Star 27 March 1964 There was also a much earlier suggestion for 1963 (reported in Motor Cycle News 23.1.63) actually discussed at PL Promoters Conference (with the seven home tracks named) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Knight Posted March 25 Report Share Posted March 25 (edited) Ahhh yes!!! 1964 - The year Sunderland 'Saints' got 'stuffed' by their own Promoters'. Never forget - never forgive either. Edited March 25 by The White Knight Correction. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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