BOBBATH Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 I've been thinking of this for a while. which of those two tracks, both champions in the respective years, were the better. Firstly league results W.Ham in 1965 . Results M.34 W 23 D1 L 10. Halifax in 1966 M 36 W 27 D 0 L 9. Better record for Halifax Head to Head : 1965 Halifax 39-38 at Halifax. West Ham 45-33 at West Ham. 1966 Halifax beat West Ham both times by same score 41-37 each time . Better record for Halifax Riders CMA 1965 West Ham : McKinlay 10.72, Harrfeldt 10.36, Hunter 9.56, Simmons 6.16, Trott 4.6, Leonard 3.68, Ede 2.84 . These were the seven most frequent riders Total of CMA's 48.12 Riders CMA 1966 Halifax : Boocock 10.41, Boothroyd 9.35, Younghusband 9.02, Roper 7.42, Kingston 5.64, Jameson 5.27, Gavros 4.71. These were the seven most frequent riders. Total of CMA's 51.82 Clearly in 1965 the Hammers had the best Heat leaders by far, whereas in 1966 Halifax were by far the better balanced e.g in 66 Gavros' 4.71 lowest of the 7 would be ahead of the 3 lowest Hammers in 65 (Trott, Leonard, Ede) My conclusion, as a nerd , and who went to many meetings both years is that Halifax were more dominant in 66 , than West Ham were in 65, so I reckon that Halifax were a better team in the 66 BL than West Ham were in the 65 BL. Only reason I did all this was because West Ham ,justly , are often more praised for their championship winning season in 65, whereas Halifax's achievement doesn't seem to get the same recognition, which is a shame. Hope folks find this interesting- even the many hammers fans on the forum. Both tremendous teams though 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted March 13 Report Share Posted March 13 That Halifax consisted of 7 riders who had ridden in the PL in 1964, so an impressive feat. West Ham in 1965 really clicked into gear n the second half of the season when Simmons hit top form and Tony Clarke came in at reserve and added a bit of sting there. The season long averages tend to cover that up. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salty Posted March 14 Report Share Posted March 14 Be interesting to see what the respective home and away averages were for the riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 (edited) On 3/14/2024 at 5:50 AM, salty said: Be interesting to see what the respective home and away averages were for the riders. Well, I had a quick run through the 'Ammers from '65 (BL)... Harrfeldt - 10.97 (H) - 9.77 (A) McKinlay - 10.93 (H) - 10.67 (A) Hunter - 10.53 (H) - 8.06 (A) Clarke - 7.2 (H) - 4.00 (A) Simmons - 7.06 (H) - 5.43 (A) Trott - 5.78 (H) - 3.12 (A) Leonard - 4.46 (H) - 2.64 (A) Ede - 2.5 (H) - 3.04 (A) 56.93 (H) - 43.69 (A) ...and Dukes from '66... Boocock - 10.85 (H) - 9.47 (A) Boothroyd - 10.67 (H) - 7.94 (A) Younghusband - 9.94 (H) - 8.37 (A) Roper - 8.18 (H) - 6.70 (A) Kingston - 6.64 (H) - 4.15 (A) Jameson - 6.56 (H) - 4.00 (A) Gavros - 5.49 (H) - 3.09 (A) 58.33 (H) - 44.15 (A) Edited March 18 by chunky 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 9 hours ago, chunky said: Well, I had a quick run through the 'Ammers from '65 (BL)... Any reason for including 8 Hammers' riders? Without number 8 Ede the gap would be greater. In 1966 the Dukes had 36 matches, whereas Hammers had 34 in 1965. It could be argued that Halifax had to maintain higher scores over more matches, or conversely with the addition of another weaker team in King's Lynn there was a greater chance to boost their averages. Halifax beat the Stars 53-25 at The Shay, although King's Lynn won 42-26 at home, one of Halifax's nine defeats in 36 matches - on 19th October when the league was already won (and Maury Robinson failed to score when replacing Bert Kingston). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 (edited) 48 minutes ago, BL65 said: Any reason for including 8 Hammers' riders? Without number 8 Ede the gap would be greater. In 1966 the Dukes had 36 matches, whereas Hammers had 34 in 1965. It could be argued that Halifax had to maintain higher scores over more matches, or conversely with the addition of another weaker team in King's Lynn there was a greater chance to boost their averages. Halifax beat the Stars 53-25 at The Shay, although King's Lynn won 42-26 at home, one of Halifax's nine defeats in 36 matches - on 19th October when the league was already won (and Maury Robinson failed to score when replacing Bert Kingston). Good point - except that I didn't actually include Ted Ede's average in the team total! I just listed those who had an extended spell in the team... To be honest, I was expecting you to jump in and give us the stats! Edited March 18 by chunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 2 hours ago, chunky said: Good point - except that I didn't actually include Ted Ede's average in the team total! I just listed those who had an extended spell in the team... To be honest, I was expecting you to jump in and give us the stats! You beat me too it. Well done! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 I think the point about Ted Ede is that he rode in 16 matches as opposed to Tony Clarke's 9. Maybe it is Tony Clarke's average that should be removed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 (edited) 27 minutes ago, norbold said: I think the point about Ted Ede is that he rode in 16 matches as opposed to Tony Clarke's 9. Maybe it is Tony Clarke's average that should be removed? Thing is, once Tony was in - he stayed in! Do what you want, it's fine with me; I just posted the figures... Edited March 18 by chunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 27 minutes ago, chunky said: Thing is, once Tony was in - he stayed in! Do what you want, it's fine with me; I just posted the figures... Actually, I don't think either should be removed. I think you were right to include them both in the first place because Tony took over from Ted, so, in a sense, their averages should be combined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadster Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 Another point is that the league in 1966 was arguably stronger. Riders like Nordin, Fundin and Jansson didn't ride in 65 and Betts, Peter Moore and Persson appeared only briefly in 65 but rode a full season in 66. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BL65 Posted March 18 Report Share Posted March 18 (edited) 11 hours ago, Chadster said: Another point is that the league in 1966 was arguably stronger. Riders like Nordin, Fundin and Jansson didn't ride in 65 and Betts, Peter Moore and Persson appeared only briefly in 65 but rode a full season in 66. Persson did not ride in 1966, he was doing National Service I believe. Two other riders who missed 1965 were Chum Taylor and Neil Street, although both were perhaps past their best in 1966. Edited March 19 by BL65 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOBBATH Posted March 19 Author Report Share Posted March 19 I'd forgotten that fact about about Halifax. BTW, Tony Clarke rode in 9 BL meetings for WH in 65. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 (edited) 3 hours ago, BOBBATH said: I'd forgotten that fact about about Halifax. BTW, Tony Clarke rode in 9 BL meetings for WH in 65. That's correct. They'd messed around with Ede, Stevens, Dugard, Hagon, Wickett, and a couple of one-offs, and then Tony came in - and stayed. Edited March 20 by chunky Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted March 20 Report Share Posted March 20 7 hours ago, chunky said: That's correct. They'd messed around with Ede, Stevens, Dugard, Hagon, Wickett, and a couple of one-offs, and then Tony came in - and stayed. Though, as I said above, when I said that Tony Clarke rode in nine matches, Ted Ede rode in 16. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derrickn Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 On 3/13/2024 at 3:22 PM, BOBBATH said: I've been thinking of this for a while. which of those two tracks, both champions in the respective years, were the better. Firstly league results W.Ham in 1965 . Results M.34 W 23 D1 L 10. Halifax in 1966 M 36 W 27 D 0 L 9. Better record for Halifax Head to Head : 1965 Halifax 39-38 at Halifax. West Ham 45-33 at West Ham. 1966 Halifax beat West Ham both times by same score 41-37 each time . Better record for Halifax Riders CMA 1965 West Ham : McKinlay 10.72, Harrfeldt 10.36, Hunter 9.56, Simmons 6.16, Trott 4.6, Leonard 3.68, Ede 2.84 . These were the seven most frequent riders Total of CMA's 48.12 Riders CMA 1966 Halifax : Boocock 10.41, Boothroyd 9.35, Younghusband 9.02, Roper 7.42, Kingston 5.64, Jameson 5.27, Gavros 4.71. These were the seven most frequent riders. Total of CMA's 51.82 Clearly in 1965 the Hammers had the best Heat leaders by far, whereas in 1966 Halifax were by far the better balanced e.g in 66 Gavros' 4.71 lowest of the 7 would be ahead of the 3 lowest Hammers in 65 (Trott, Leonard, Ede) My conclusion, as a nerd , and who went to many meetings both years is that Halifax were more dominant in 66 , than West Ham were in 65, so I reckon that Halifax were a better team in the 66 BL than West Ham were in the 65 BL. Only reason I did all this was because West Ham ,justly , are often more praised for their championship winning season in 65, whereas Halifax's achievement doesn't seem to get the same recognition, which is a shame. Hope folks find this interesting- even the many hammers fans on the forum. Both tremendous teams though In 1966,Halifax also won the KO cup,and the Northern trophy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Derrickn said: In 1966,Halifax also won the KO cup,and the Northern trophy. In 1965, West Ham also won the KO Cup, and the London Cup 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted April 24 Report Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, chunky said: In 1965, West Ham also won the KO Cup, and the London Cup And I saw them win all three! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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