Cardiff 24

[tellboy]

1 hour ago, Gambo95 said:

Just watched a few heats today as missed last night.

Janowski and Lambert should have went through on the head to head results as they won 2 of the 3 head to heads.

By the way Martin was, I think it looks like he knew the FIM rules and that he was through.

That says to me that it was down to ranking between Martin and Dan with Dan being eliminated.

Was speaking to a mate who agreed with me that no way should Janowski have been eliminated as they qualified through option 5 (head to head results).

I was there and I was thinking Dan could go simply as you said Robert and Magic won two of their head to heads.But I have now looked at the programme and with Vaculik and Dan each winning one of their head to heads you would expect the winner of their head to head should be the one to go through.That would mean Vaculik should have been out imo as in ht 5 Dan won with Vaculik last.

[Debbi]

4 hours ago, tellboy said:

I was there and I was thinking Dan could go simply as you said Robert and Magic won two of their head to heads.But I have now looked at the programme and with Vaculik and Dan each winning one of their head to heads you would expect the winner of their head to head should be the one to go through.That would mean Vaculik should have been out imo as in ht 5 Dan won with Vaculik last.

From the tv footage Robert looked resigned to being out. This was obviously changed to Vaculik. Vaculik then went to find Phil Morris and was clearly making his point and getting a little heated then we hear it’s changed again. Armando said there were officials in the refs box looking at it well surely they didn’t need to be in there, tv cameras, all over they have transponder times etc are we really saying they could not get all of this in the pits, they seemed to be able to hold an FIM jury meeting in Denmark (very quickly) last year to exclude Zmarzlik! It also seems odd that Armando is high up in the FIM for speedway and wasn’t with said officials in the refs box. Instead Armando looked like a deer caught in headlights when they tried to ask him about it, but no one from the FIM Phil, Armando or whoever, actually explained how they had come to this decision and why which would have been made clear to supporters what was going on and why! I know this is very rare so they hadn’t thought ahead for this, but there should have been more clarity from the officials, on the night!

why not look at the heat times with the fastest 3 going through? Have a run off? Instead of looking like incompetent idiots (trying to be polite)! How on earth do you explain this to media, newcomers, fans in the stadium especially when the official commentators had no clue either! 

[mikebv]

Hold a run off...

Use rankings if needed to determine gate picks..

Or, as all finished level, just do a random one...

A run off would have took less time than working it all out...

And look far, far more professional...

[tellboy]

2 hours ago, Debbi said:

From the tv footage Robert looked resigned to being out. This was obviously changed to Vaculik. Vaculik then went to find Phil Morris and was clearly making his point and getting a little heated then we hear it’s changed again. Armando said there were officials in the refs box looking at it well surely they didn’t need to be in there, tv cameras, all over they have transponder times etc are we really saying they could not get all of this in the pits, they seemed to be able to hold an FIM jury meeting in Denmark (very quickly) last year to exclude Zmarzlik! It also seems odd that Armando is high up in the FIM for speedway and wasn’t with said officials in the refs box. Instead Armando looked like a deer caught in headlights when they tried to ask him about it, but no one from the FIM Phil, Armando or whoever, actually explained how they had come to this decision and why which would have been made clear to supporters what was going on and why! I know this is very rare so they hadn’t thought ahead for this, but there should have been more clarity from the officials, on the night!

why not look at the heat times with the fastest 3 going through? Have a run off? Instead of looking like incompetent idiots (trying to be polite)! How on earth do you explain this to media, newcomers, fans in the stadium especially when the official commentators had no clue either! 

Lowest ranked rider went out which is what was said in the stadium,eventually.So that was obviously going to be Janowski as he has only rode a few Gp's this season.

[davidncohen]

On 8/17/2024 at 8:07 PM, Hawk127 said:

Belle Vue would be good for a second GP in the UK but given the state of UK speedway is it any wonder why anywhere in the U K can justify holding this event. Cardiff and Wales have been supportive of the sport and it should not be under-estimated the contribution Wales has made to the UK GP speedway. It is not a disgrace it is simply economics and whoever the piper is they call the tune.  You also have not picked up that speedway is a second rate sport that does not deserve the exposure that the Cardiff Millennium stadium gives speedway. Face it, speedway is on its knees and the majority of the UK does not know it even exists and could not give a toss whether it is held at Cardiff, BelleVue or the IOW.

>>> "...and the majority of the UK does not know it even exists..."

And this is very possibly the single biggest issue in terms of the sport's decline over recent decades.

[racers and royals]

9 hours ago, tellboy said:

I was there and I was thinking Dan could go simply as you said Robert and Magic won two of their head to heads.But I have now looked at the programme and with Vaculik and Dan each winning one of their head to heads you would expect the winner of their head to head should be the one to go through.That would mean Vaculik should have been out imo as in ht 5 Dan won with Vaculik last.

My two-penneth for what’s it worth. The FIM officials have to go by the rules, so a race-off or fastest time are not in the rule book so cannot be used.

What however is in the rule book ? If two riders are level on points and wins, 2nds etc can’t split them then the head - to - head decides- simple !!

Then it goes on to say if the tie involves MORE than 2 riders, it is checked to see whether there is a possibility to determine a  Proper precedence. It then goes on to use as an example 3 riders A, B and C and how they can be split.

It then says that if the above cannot split the riders then GP rankings will be used.

My opinion mirrors yours and that the MORE THAN TWO doesn’t mean 3 MAX ( or they would have said so !)and that the head to head between the 4 riders should have been used. We know Lambert and Janowski won 2 and lost 1, so they should have been through and with Bewley and Vaculik winning 1 then the head to head between the two should have seen Bewley through.

[WembleyLion]

14 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

My two-penneth for what’s it worth. The FIM officials have to go by the rules, so a race-off or fastest time are not in the rule book so cannot be used.

What however is in the rule book ? If two riders are level on points and wins, 2nds etc can’t split them then the head - to - head decides- simple !!

Then it goes on to say if the tie involves MORE than 2 riders, it is checked to see whether there is a possibility to determine a  Proper precedence. It then goes on to use as an example 3 riders A, B and C and how they can be split.

It then says that if the above cannot split the riders then GP rankings will be used.

My opinion mirrors yours and that the MORE THAN TWO doesn’t mean 3 MAX ( or they would have said so !)and that the head to head between the 4 riders should have been used. We know Lambert and Janowski won 2 and lost 1, so they should have been through and with Bewley and Vaculik winning 1 then the head to head between the two should have seen Bewley through.

I agree - if head to head was to conclude the entire matter it had to be Vaculik out. However, as we all know it was decided that it didn’t provide a proper precedence so it moved to the final rankings step. 

Edited August 19 by WembleyLion

[racers and royals]

7 minutes ago, WembleyLion said:

I agree - if head to head was to conclude the entire matter it had to be Vaculik out. However, as we all know it was decided that it didn’t provide a proper precedence so it moved to the final rankings step. 

Why did they decide however that the head to head didn’t provide a proper precedence ? 

[arnieg]

When I agree @racers and royals and @WembleyLion then it suggests to me that a consensus has emerged, and it is that the FIM failed to follow their own rules and got in wrong

[Ace no.5]

I agree with most others on here. Vaculik should have been out. Simples. Clear tiebreaker with Janowski and Lambert the first 2 in with 2 head to head wins. Vaculik and Bewley with only 1 but Bewley beat Vaculik.

[customhouseregularisback]

Cardiff gave us the 7th. different winner in 7 rounds. Any chance of 11 rounds, 11 different winners?. 

[Ace no.5]

1 hour ago, CHR2 said:

Cardiff gave us the 7th. different winner in 7 rounds. Any chance of 11 rounds, 11 different winners?. 

A chance. But a very small one! 

 

(Want to watch Dumb and Dumber now!)

Edited August 19 by Ace no.5

[WembleyLion]

9 hours ago, racers and royals said:

Why did they decide however that the head to head didn’t provide a proper precedence ? 

We’ll have to wait for the answer on that one Tim.

[TINYS]

When will they reveal next years GP date.

[Waspman]

Kelvin had a problem saying autobiography for Scott Nicholls book

[Neila]

Re hotel costs whether the speedway is in Cardiff or Manchester. For normal Saturday nites even without events premier inns charge £125 -175 pounds, so Manchester won't be any cheaper to stay than Cardiff,  I love the belle Vue track but with it being 3 mile from the city centre its not the most accessible place to get to, and theirs nothing nearby for food or drink 

[bellevueace]

On 8/18/2024 at 4:55 PM, eric i said:

Manchester is a problem, it is not a tourist city and thats putting it nicely as I can.

Obviously you dont know what the city has to offer.

Edited August 20 by bellevueace

[arnieg]

24 minutes ago, bellevueace said:

Obviously you dont know what the city has to offer.

According to tripadvisor Manchester wins 964 to 562

My personal recommendation is the People's history museum.

[racers and royals]

Sportowefakty have produced a long article about the Janowski missing the semi`s situation.

This is the Google translated final bit.

In conclusion. From a logical point of view based on the analysis of results and the application of the direct duel order, it was possible to establish the order from sixth to ninth position during the British GP, without having to use the FIM ranking. Vaculik should have been eliminated from the tournament after the main round. Meanwhile, in the end... he was classified the highest of the entire quartet. He finished the main round in sixth place and thanks to this he still had the opportunity to choose the starting field before leaving for his semi-final.

What does the Polish Automobile and Motorcycle Federation have to say about all this? We know that for now they are not taking any sudden steps in this matter. The federation is waiting for an analysis of the whole situation.

Edited August 20 by racers and royals

[f-s-p]

17 minutes ago, racers and royals said:

Sportowefakty have produced a long article about the Janowski missing the semi`s situation.

This is Google translated final bit.

In conclusion. From a logical point of view based on the analysis of results and the application of the direct duel order, it was possible to establish the order from sixth to ninth position during the British GP, without having to use the FIM ranking. Vaculik should have been eliminated from the tournament after the main round. Meanwhile, in the end... he was classified the highest of the entire quartet. He finished the main round in sixth place and thanks to this he still had the opportunity to choose the starting field before leaving for his semi-final.

What does the Polish Automobile and Motorcycle Federation have to say about all this? We know that for now they are not taking any sudden steps in this matter. The federation is waiting for an analysis of the whole situation.

Pawel Slupski PZM Licence n° 17099 was the ref according to the SR, so maybe they wont say all that much.

I think my previous post was deleted or something, but I sort of gave the OK for the decision based on that this has never happened. If they don add this to the next rulebook, then thats wrong. This is how it should be done from now on.