AGM

[ch958]

you would think 'the likes of Morley and Clegg' should be able to score in a weakened Div 2, you're right they shouldn't be in a development league

[IronScorpion]

2 hours ago, Come on the Skipper said:

Will there be enough riders of sufficient quality to fill the 6 teams? An older more experienced pair of hands who has achieved an average of 4 or over in the championship would be beneficial to the less experienced riders, would they not? Sings has already identified 10 riders from this years teams who are no longer allowed to ride. 

I'm no legal expert but could prohibiting any rider who has achieved a 4 point championship average be a restraint of trade?

As always, there are more questions than answers.

  

 

Similarly a few years back with S Nicholls when he tried to get a Championship place but was told his Premiership average was too high so could not race. He went to seek legal advice & the rest is history.

[Come on the Skipper]

3 hours ago, Ben91 said:

I think the emphasis with the NDL now is really going to be on development. That’s not necessarily a bad thing. With no stand-alone clubs there is no conflict of interest between sides there to win at all costs and those there to develop riders in a competitive environment. I’ll add that I am very sad to see any clubs close. That we’ve lost two from the third tier is incredibly sad. 

The over 4.00 Championship rule is no coincidence and again, I’m not against it. The likes of Morley and Clegg shouldn’t still be in the third tier over a decade after their debuts, especially now that the league is truly being framed as a development league. What could have helped riders of that ilk is tighter doubling up rules between the Premiership and Championship. They would be more sought after for clubs in the second tier then.

It’s important to remember that the sport doesn’t owe riders a team place though. This is a step in the right direction when it comes to the sport telling the riders the rules to play by rather than bending to their will. At least if it is enforced. 

Is not allowing certain riders in restriction of trade? No, it’s the rules. I’d love to be a Premier League footballer but I don’t get a go just because I fancy it, nor can I take legal action over it. 

Your comment makes no sense. The reason you're not a Premier League footballer is because you don't have the skills to be one, no offence. The situation here is that professional riders who have exceeded the standard required are being prohibited from riding, and being paid for doing so. Whether riders at this level should be professional or not is a discussion for another time.   

It remains to be seen how this will pan out.

 

[StevePark]

Using the Prem Lge footballer analogy, it's a bit like a former PL footballer wanting to play for a Lge Two side and not being able to because he once reached a much higher standard.  

[Ben91]

18 minutes ago, Come on the Skipper said:

Your comment makes no sense. The reason you're not a Premier League footballer is because you don't have the skills to be one, no offence. The situation here is that professional riders who have exceeded the standard required are being prohibited from riding, and being paid for doing so. Whether riders at this level should be professional or not is a discussion for another time.   

It remains to be seen how this will pan out.

 

It’s no different to someone becoming too old to compete in an under-21 competition, for example. Riders who have reached a certain standard in their careers shouldn’t be taking team spots in what is now solely a reserve/development league. 

 

[Ben91]

10 minutes ago, StevePark said:

Using the Prem Lge footballer analogy, it's a bit like a former PL footballer wanting to play for a Lge Two side and not being able to because he once reached a much higher standard.  

Yes and no. Because League Two is a professional league, whereas the new NDL looks to me to be the equivalent of a reserve/youth league. There’s no grey area in terms of stand-alone teams now. I’d say it is definitely being pitched as a process for development and training rather than being a competitive win at all costs league first and foremost. 

The lowest “professional” league in British speedway is now the Championship it appears. 

[RogerM22]

On 11/30/2023 at 7:50 PM, Ben91 said:

It’s no different to someone becoming too old to compete in an under-21 competition, for example. Riders who have reached a certain standard in their careers shouldn’t be taking team spots in what is now solely a reserve/development league. 

 

How is it in any way similar? If you're too old then you're too old, that is an objective fact. Creating a limit of what makes someone too good is completely arbitrary.

I totally support the rule to limit these riders btw, the league should be purely about development and nothing else, and who is genuinely going to bother challenging this rule anyway?

[Ben91]

Just now, RogerM22 said:

How is it in any way similar? If you're too old then you're too old, that is an objective fact. Creating a limit of what makes someone too good is completely arbitrary.

I totally support the rule to limit these riders btw, the league should be purely about development and nothing else, and who is genuinely going to bother challenging this rule anyway?

If you’ve reached a 4 point average in the Championship or not is a fact too. 

[szkocjasid]

I understand the no 4.00 Champ riders rule, personally I would have preferred the rule to be no 4.00 Champ riders allowed to double up. That would allow the likes of Clegg & Morley to race NL, but if they get called up, NL team needs to replace them.

I know people will say they shouldn't be in a "development" league, but what about how they can help develop their teammates with coaching on the correct lines to race, how to set up your bikes etc.

I also feel they give the top "developing" riders someone to aim for, if the likes of Harrison & Perry can defeat Morley & Clegg, they'll know they've reached the standard required to step up to the Champ. Remove these experienced riders and the next "Harrison & Perry" may have 9.5 averages, but could be nowhere near Champ level as they've only beaten fellow "developing" riders.

I certainly think riders shouldn't be allowed to treble up, if you're good enough for the Prem, shouldn't be in the NL imo.

I'm happy with 10 league fixtures, no KOC or play-offs, aside from thinking top of the league should be Champions, it allows the trans to plan their fixtures, knowing they have till the end of October to race their 5 home meetings. While it's a shame there's less matches for the NL riders, they can't demand more fixtures if fans don't attend in high enough numbers / clubs don't want to host more meetings. Will have to increase their track time with second half's & amateur / Nora speedway.

[szkocjasid]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:55 AM, Sings4Speedway said:

Re-reading a point of interest will be the achieved 4.00 or above, riders like Hook, Pearson etc were assessed a 4.00 CL average but didn't achieve it, if commonwealth riders can get a place at the expense of a Brit then it is very questionable logic.

Good question, Hook has never "achieved" a 4.00 ave so should be able to race NL. Pearson has risen above 4.00.

Edited December 3, 2023 by szkocjasid

[szkocjasid]

On 11/30/2023 at 2:12 PM, Come on the Skipper said:

Will there be enough riders of sufficient quality to fill the 6 teams? An older more experienced pair of hands who has achieved an average of 4 or over in the championship would be beneficial to the less experienced riders, would they not? Sings has already identified 10 riders from this years teams who are no longer allowed to ride. 

I'm not sure if there will be enough quality, but I'm sure they'll find enough riders who want to race, just hope they can all turn the bikes safely etc. i.e the NDL shouldn't be the level where you learn to slide etc.

[szkocjasid]

On 11/30/2023 at 11:17 AM, Sings4Speedway said:

Quick scan of this years riders who have achieved over 4 at some point in the CL in the past couple of seasons and therefore not eligible (in my interpretation of the ruling) ......

Clegg
Bowtell
Morley
D Thompson
J Thompson
Bailey
Atkins
Jenkins
Complin
Roynon

I always got the impression they are talking about season ending averages, so assuming Joe T has never finished above 4.00 he could still race NL.

[szkocjasid]

One thing they have done is truly turn the NDL into a league for second teams of senior sides. Partly that's been happening anyway, as if you have 2 stand alone clubs wanting 12 home fixtures & 6 second teams wanting 6 home fixtures, what can you do? Have to go with the majority.

The downside of this is the third tier has been a way for clubs to start at a lower financial level before stepping up to the Champ, off the top of my head Berwick, Birmingham, Eastbourne, Kent, Lakeside, Plymouth, Rye House, Scunthorpe, Somerset & Workington have either started at National / Conference etc or dropped down before stepping back up, this option will be less likely in the future, as it would cost a lot to build a stadium for 5 home meetings a year.

Edited December 3, 2023 by szkocjasid

[Sings4Speedway]

20 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

I always got the impression they are talking about season ending averages, so assuming Joe T has never finished above 4.00 he could still race NL.

That must be the case as J Thompson is quoted as being Leicester NDL captain. Easy money for a season i guess, also looks like riding in all 3 leagues is allowed (or is it 2 leagues as the NDL really doesn't count to those in charge)