flagrag Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 33 minutes ago, iainb said: Poor decision. I don't know if JT has asked to be stood down but surely the club could have maybe done more to help him turn his form around? Binning him off is very much the easy option and for what? Replacing him for a rider of similar calibre who won't get around BP as well as JT does. I thought the idea of the rising star system was that they were protected, this change makes no sense, drop a club asset, the captain of the cubs and bring in an outsider, doesn't send out a great message and it's not made Lions into title contenders all of a sudden. Iainb- The club have tried to help Joe with extra assistance in the pits and the more senior riders including Greg Hancock have provided guidance and advice. Joe has not been enjoying his Premiership racing and it shows in his performances he has been riding different lines to what he does in NL and Championship at Leicester. His confidence is very low and that showed even on track walk last night and it was felt best to try another option before it affects Joe’s championship form as well . Sam Hagon is a tidy rider who listens well and yes like other RS riders this may be a bit soon for him but with confidence may pick up some points . I don’t think any changes that clubs make now are going to make them into title contenders it’s what changes happens early July time that will be the decider Edited May 3 by flagrag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishersGate Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 It was coming. He isn't good enough for this level and everyone knows that, even Joe himself. I do feel for the lad though, said it before and il say it again the RS system is not fit for purpose simply because there isn't enough of them. If anything, the RS system has made Joe's career worse by lowering his confidence. I don't know much about Hagon, I heard that he's started the season well. Will he get us winning at home? Highly doubt it, the bigger issues we have are the constent tinkering with the track preparation and the form of Kemp, Becker and Masters last night. Good luck to Joe I really hope his smashes the championship and proves us all wrong one day. And welcome Sam. Good luck! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 8 minutes ago, flagrag said: Iainb- The club have tried to help Joe with extra assistance in the pits and the more senior riders including Greg Hancock have provided guidance and advice. Joe has not been enjoying his Premiership racing and it shows in his performances he has been riding different lines to what he does in NL and Championship at Leicester. His confidence is very low and that showed even on track walk last night and it was felt best to try another option before it affects Joe’s championship form as well . Sam Hagon is a tidy rider who listens well and yes like other RS riders this may be a bit soon for him but with confidence may pick up some points . I don’t think any changes that clubs make now are going to make them into title contenders it’s what changes happens early July time that will be the decider Thanks for the BTS info, sheds a bit more light on the situation. I think the talent pool is too shallow to successfully run a rising star programme in the PL 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 7 minutes ago, FishersGate said: said it before and il say it again the RS system is not fit for purpose simply because there isn't enough of them. If anything, the RS system has made Joe's career worse by lowering his confidence. Another rider chewed up and spat out by the rising star system 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 36 minutes ago, FishersGate said: It was coming. He isn't good enough for this level and everyone knows that, even Joe himself. I do feel for the lad though, said it before and il say it again the RS system is not fit for purpose simply because there isn't enough of them. If anything, the RS system has made Joe's career worse by lowering his confidence. I don't know much about Hagon, I heard that he's started the season well. Will he get us winning at home? Highly doubt it, the bigger issues we have are the constent tinkering with the track preparation and the form of Kemp, Becker and Masters last night. Good luck to Joe I really hope his smashes the championship and proves us all wrong one day. And welcome Sam. Good luck! Not sure about NL. But Poole have only had two meetings so far and he got 10+1 and 2+1 But the two did include 2 falls and an ef. Edited May 3 by lisa-colette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 I don't see Hagon scoring any more points than Joe, but I realise they are making the move based on more than just Joe's scores. After a great first match Hagon has had a few lower scores (possibly due to falls) and only scored 2 at Edinburgh tonight. I wonder if Jake Mulford would have been the better option? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 3 Report Share Posted May 3 (edited) 51 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: I don't see Hagon scoring any more points than Joe, but I realise they are making the move based on more than just Joe's scores. After a great first match Hagon has had a few lower scores (possibly due to falls) and only scored 2 at Edinburgh tonight. I wonder if Jake Mulford would have been the better option? Another lamb to the slaughter... We can perhaps try Mulford after we've destroyed another riders confidence Edited May 3 by iainb 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 14 hours ago, Cross Roads said: Comments on other groups around track. I’ve commented many times over years shape was wrong from day one. Drop temp stands make bends wider and racing improves how many times do you see a rider nearly hit air fence exiting bend 4…that said never going to happen so track prep will be only way forward. The track shape has been significantly altered since from its original conception and riders can now enter & exit bends much earlier given the shorter straights and additional width in the corners. What is very apparent is that the banking out of bends one and two provides for a significantly better exit in terms of choice of line than that on bends 3 & 4 and so maybe the next step in track improvement should be to provide appropriate banking on the final to bends. Its difficult to have any hope that the overall width across the track will happen given not only the cost of dropping the temporary stands but also the amount of time & cost required to alter the existing electrical and drainage in situ as well as the standing areas on bends one and four. None of the aforementioned is impossible but most probably would/could only happen as part of a significant long term development plan to both spectator and racing facilities, funded by? and for what gain to recover the investment? Most probably, what we can best hope for is that track preparation as per Thursdays meetings are few and far between because when done correctly there has been some excellent racing/passing on par with the majority of tracks here in the UK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 valve Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 (edited) 15 hours ago, iainb said: Another rider chewed up and spat out by the rising star system In fairness to Speedway in general and the RS system in particular, History is full of young aspiring sportsmen being released ("spat out") by their chosen team sport. Football in particular but rugby & cricket to name a few others have also done their fair share. That said, some of those rejected have, after a "reset" come back and made good in their chosen sporting profession albeit via a different route than they originally envisaged. Others, meanwhile have come to the realisation that they simply were not good enough for the elite level & either quit altogether or enjoyed time as a semi-pro/amateur participant. Edited May 4 by 1 valve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 (edited) 43 minutes ago, 1 valve said: In fairness to Speedway in general and the RS system in particular, History is full of young aspiring sportsmen being released ("spat out") by their chosen team sport. Football in particular but rugby & cricket to name a few others have also done their fair share. That said, some of those rejected have, after a "reset" come back and made good in their chosen sporting profession albeit via a different route than they originally envisaged. Others, meanwhile have come to the realisation that they simply were not good enough for the elite level & either quit altogether or enjoyed time as a semi-pro/amateur participant. It depends what the Rising Start system is designed to do... Is it to find the next Robert Lambert, who it could be argued will always find a way to the top or is it to find the next Simon Lambert, the type of rider the sport would not survive without? There has been a chronic rider shortage over the last number of years, exacerbated by the doubling up system and importing of ready made foreign talent and for me the way the rising star system is run does nothing to produce either type of Lambert. Don't laugh but you could almost have a revolving rising star system where each club only has their "star" for 1 month before being moved onto another club, the sport in general doesn't seem to mind who rides for who, so why not make it official to benefit the riders and clubs? So Leicester would get Joe Thompson for March then he moves on to Birmingham and is replaced by Dan Thompson for April and then he moves on to another club for May etc. etc. Sounds stupid but is it as stupid as demoralising your up and coming "star" (the name itself adds pressure) to such a state that they think about quitting the sport because they've been dropped into a league and are hopelessly out of their depth... these kids are CL reserves being asked to be PL reserves alongside the likes of Craig Cook, Vaclav Milik and Patrick Wojdylo, all potential match winners. When the RS system was first introduced the strength of the PL was considerably weaker and as the quality of the league has increased the quality needed to be a RS hasn't Edited May 4 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Al Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 I've never been convinced about the Rising Star concept as it currently operates. For a rider to be "accepted" as a member of such a scheme, they should first attain some benchmarks - for example minimum number of completed rides at CL level, minimum number of points scored, and minimum average established at that level. Shouldn't be allowed to be anywhere near a PL team place without having these basic qualifications. Having set this bar, a PL club that decides to employ such a rider within its team, should be granted attractive concessions as an incentive. However, such concessions should have conditions attached, one of which is to guarantee the rider a minimum number of matches before being replaced. This will of course have the effect of restricting the supply of "Rising Stars" - so be it. Clubs which don't employ such a rider would just build a team without one. Hopefully that would prevent riders such as Joe, Boughen and Hagon from having their careers derailed. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 (edited) Looking at the list of the 67 (67!!) riders eligible for the RS scheme in 2021 https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rising_stars_21.05.21-1.pdf How many are still riding? And at what level? And how many have gone on to become "stars", how do you define "star" (does Paul Bowen's appearance on The Apprentice count? ), let's be generous and say a regular position in the main body of a team. I think things have improved this season with the weakening of the CL to accommodate some of the riders at this level, which is a good thing... only the PL has become stronger while the criteria for being a RS has remained the same. Edited May 4 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, iainb said: Looking at the list of the 67 (67!!) riders eligible for the RS scheme in 2021 https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/rising_stars_21.05.21-1.pdf How many are still riding? And at what level? And how many have gone on to become "stars", how do you define "star" (does Paul Bowen's appearance on The Apprentice count? ), let's be generous and say a regular position in the main body of a team. I think things have improved this season with the weakening of the CL to accommodate some of the riders at this level, which is a good thing... only the PL has become stronger while the criteria for being a RS has remained the same. 30 of those have retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 2 hours ago, Racin Jason 72 said: 30 of those have retired. Pretty poor for a sport that, domestically, relies on riders doubling up and foreign imports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 On 5/3/2024 at 6:08 PM, flagrag said: Iainb- The club have tried to help Joe with extra assistance in the pits and the more senior riders including Greg Hancock have provided guidance and advice. Joe has not been enjoying his Premiership racing and it shows in his performances he has been riding different lines to what he does in NL and Championship at Leicester. His confidence is very low and that showed even on track walk last night and it was felt best to try another option before it affects Joe’s championship form as well . Sam Hagon is a tidy rider who listens well and yes like other RS riders this may be a bit soon for him but with confidence may pick up some points . Listening to DT on BSN just now and it sounds like maybe the rest of the Leicester riders weren't perhaps offering as much help to JT as the riders do with DT at Ippo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazS Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 Sam played a big part in the win for Poole at Berwick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 4 Report Share Posted May 4 13 minutes ago, DazS said: Sam played a big part in the win for Poole at Berwick We'll change all that once we get a hold of him! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted May 5 Report Share Posted May 5 On 5/4/2024 at 9:50 AM, iainb said: When the RS system was first introduced the strength of the PL was considerably weaker and as the quality of the league has increased the quality needed to be a RS hasn't 22 hours ago, iainb said: I think things have improved this season with the weakening of the CL to accommodate some of the riders at this level, which is a good thing... only the PL has become stronger while the criteria for being a RS has remained the same. I think the problem is the RS criteria has lowered. When it first came in riders had to be below 6.5 in the Champ & 5.5 in the Prem (to fit in Josh Bates) but know if you get above 4.00 you no longer qualify. So while the Prem gets stronger, the RS are actually getting weaker. Next year Flint, Dan T & Rowe will likely be above 4.00. Are there 3 more riders ready to step up & replace them? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted May 23 Report Share Posted May 23 If Kerr doesn't go back to Oxford, how about Schlein & Kerr in place of Becker & Kemp. Would mean having a strong reserve in Kerr. If Kerr is kept at Oxford, sign the rider they drop? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted May 24 Report Share Posted May 24 11 hours ago, szkocjasid said: If Kerr doesn't go back to Oxford, how about Schlein & Kerr in place of Becker & Kemp. Would mean having a strong reserve in Kerr. If Kerr is kept at Oxford, sign the rider they drop? If I were to lose anyone it'd be Masters for me, I was never convinced with his signing from the start. Although Becker hasn't been brilliant I do feel his career path is generally on the way up while Masters is going the other way. I assume Becker's average has dropped? Which may give a little more leeway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.