NDL Future

[RogerM22]

1 hour ago, Binman said:

Yes Berwick can start at 6.30 and fit 30 years in at the moment

That's about how long it feels to watch a Berwick meeting at times.

[1 valve]

5 hours ago, KK62 said:

Why do we have to reduce it ?

Clubs are more than capable of running 15 heats and a six heat second half….and more !

Redcar , and a few other northern clubs, do it every week.

It’s not a matter of the time required to run a meeting. It’s the cost of paying the riders. 
That said, a 13 heat main event plus a second half had a lot going for it. 

[Fortythirtyeight]

8 minutes ago, 1 valve said:

It’s not a matter of the time required to run a meeting. It’s the cost of paying the riders. 
That said, a 13 heat main event plus a second half had a lot going for it. 

Is that why 80% of the crowd left after heat 13 ? 
That was one of the reasons they extended the main match to 15 heats as that’s what the fans wanted.

[ch958]

8 hours ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Is that why 80% of the crowd left after heat 13 ? 
That was one of the reasons they extended the main match to 15 heats as that’s what the fans wanted.

people forget this but what you say is spot on

[Bavarian]

Second halfs have to become an attraction that people want to see then. Running it as a league competition gives it more value already. And why not using it to invite some up-and coming riders/teams from abroad such as France, Holland, Germany, Italy etc. to tour the UK and get a series of 2nd half matches against the local junior teams? 

[25yearfan]

I think the 1960's to early 80's British speedway set up of 13 heats with a 2nd half including novice races was a great set up cause many riders cut their teeth this way. I know that most of the crowd would leave but personally I found many ordinary matches were made more interesting by seeing local novices trying to make their way in the sport after the main event.

 

With regards to the NDL, British speedways 3rd Division, it has to be retained because since its inception in 1994 it has been one of the best things to happen to the sport. Countless numbers of riders have learned their trade at this level in a proper League set up something they would have been ready for at a higher level. Also like in the case of Workingtons reopening this season this lower cost League has enabled new venues. reopened venues and current tracks struggling to make it pay in the higher professional Leagues pay a platform to operate in. - Would Workington Northside have gone straight into the Championship without the safety net of the NDL to run in before? 

 

Birmingham and Eastbourne in recent years needed to drop into the 3rd tier in order to keep running. The likes of Mildenhall, Stoke, Somerset, St Austell, Kent, Linlithgow, Rye House, Buxton, Carmarthen, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Wimbledon, Arena Essex, Skegness, Weymouth and Berwick only opened or reopened because of the existence of the lower cost 3rd Division. Many of these tracks went onto move into the higher Leagues keeping team levels up to a sustainable level.

 

Looking at all the above facts disbanding the 3rd Division, the NDL in its current guise would be a negative move cause the gentler introduction into the sport for new tracks and new riders would not be there which would seriously hinder future existence of the sport in the UK.

Edited October 21, 2023 by 25yearfan

[MillenTheVillen]

If the NDL stays then there will be low Team numbers (so hypothetically if there's only 4 Teams)

In order for it to do what it's designed for and their being 28 riders (I'd even make each team have a number 8, if anyone is missing they step in at number 7 and team is reshuffled per averages, it's not mind blown to move the 1-7 the do it every other week when they sack someone)

There should be no big boy's ie Complin, Roynon, Edwards, Bowtell etc 

And it should also weed out the I'm entitled to get paid now I'm old enough brigade (they should then continue to ride Amateur and  2nd Halfs till they at a level and earned it to picked to move into the NDL)

[IainB]

39 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

I think the 1960's to early 80's British speedway set up of 13 heats with a 2nd half including novice races was a great set up cause many riders cut their teeth this way. I know that most of the crowd would leave but personally I found many ordinary matches were made more interesting by seeing local novices trying to make their way in the sport after the main event.

 

With regards to the NDL, British speedways 3rd Division, it has to be retained because since its inception in 1994 it has been one of the best things to happen to the sport. Countless numbers of riders have learned their trade at this level in a proper League set up something they would have been ready for at a higher level. Also like in the case of Workingtons reopening this season this lower cost League has enabled new venues. reopened venues and current tracks struggling to make it pay in the higher professional Leagues pay a platform to operate in. - Would Workington Northside have gone straight into the Championship without the safety net of the NDL to run in before? 

 

Birmingham and Eastbourne in recent years needed to drop into the 3rd tier in order to keep running. The likes of Mildenhall, Stoke, Somerset, St Austell, Kent, Linlithgow, Rye House, Buxton, Carmarthen, Scunthorpe, Plymouth, Wimbledon, Arena Essex, Skegness, Weymouth and Berwick only opened or reopened because of the existence of the lower cost 3rd Division. Many of these tracks went onto move into the higher Leagues keeping team levels up to a sustainable level.

 

Looking at all the above facts disbanding the 3rd Division, the NDL in its current guise would be a negative move cause the gentler introduction into the sport for new tracks and new riders would not be there which would seriously hinder future existence of the sport in the UK.

I'm generally not a fan of the NDL and personally it's not something I would pay to watch (not at the current price), maybe because of the word Development being used, as it seems to be a bit of a haven for some riders to fill their calendar. But you do make a compelling case for it to continue 

Edited October 21, 2023 by iainb

[*JJ]

23 hours ago, mikebv said:

I remember the old SJL..

I think all had four heats each in 3 man teans, with six heats in all...

That could work maybe? 

Six lads per night getting more racing...

This already exists: the Midland Junior League. Unfortunately, the idiot BSPL mostly destroyed it as they couldn't be bothered to run it. As for curfews, Birmingham manage to run a 15 heat main match and a MJL match before 10 pm ... and have found enough riders to run two teams.

[25yearfan]

Fair enough iainb but you say that as a Leicester fan presumably?

 

Ask Mildenhall fans about the virtues of the 3rd Division cause without the 3rd tier Mildenhall speedway wouldn't exist.

 

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by 25yearfan

[25yearfan]

1 minute ago, *JJ said:

This already exists: the Midland Junior League. Unfortunately, the idiot BSPL mostly destroyed it as they couldn't be bothered to run it. As for curfews, Birmingham manage to run a 15 heat main match and a MJL match before 10 pm ... and have found enough riders to run two teams.

100% but another reason the BSPL destroyed it was because it was successful. The still born Premiership Junior League is still very painful to mention.

[IainB]

1 minute ago, 25yearfan said:

Fair enough iainb but you say that as a Leicester fan presumably?

 

Ask Mildenhall fans about the virues of the 3rd Division cause without the 3rd tier Mildenhall speedway wouldn't exist.

 

 

Absolutely, I accept that I live with several tracks on my doorstep, all pretty easy to get to by car, especially Leicester. If 3rd tier Speedway was my only real choice, then I suspect I would probably give it more of a chance

[Hawk127]

A third level of the sport needs to exist to ensure a pipeline of new talent but the format of a meeting does not have to mirror the standard thirteen or fifteen heats.

Make race days a festival with teams made up of say, 500 cc, 250 cc, and 125 cc with perhaps 80 c c or even electric powered bikes. Each category would race as a team with say four man teams and include both male and female riders. Set an upper age limit for each category.  

Set a fixed price for points and that is it. If the talent exists and it wants to compete then they have to understand that at the 3rd level it is equivalent to an apprenticeship.

Clubs could band together to offer a season ticket to punters which gives them access to all tracks or a flat £7.50 entry on the day with kids under 16 free.

Just thoughts and I am sure others on here can come up with more and better ideas, but most of all you have to create the demand and start somewhere. The sport cannot afford to lose the Kent’s and Mildenhall’s of this world.

[MillenTheVillen]

25 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

A third level of the sport needs to exist to ensure a pipeline of new talent but the format of a meeting does not have to mirror the standard thirteen or fifteen heats.

Make race days a festival with teams made up of say, 500 cc, 250 cc, and 125 cc with perhaps 80 c c or even electric powered bikes. Each category would race as a team with say four man teams and include both male and female riders. Set an upper age limit for each category.  

Set a fixed price for points and that is it. If the talent exists and it wants to compete then they have to understand that at the 3rd level it is equivalent to an apprenticeship.

Clubs could band together to offer a season ticket to punters which gives them access to all tracks or a flat £7.50 entry on the day with kids under 16 free.

Just thoughts and I am sure others on here can come up with more and better ideas, but most of all you have to create the demand and start somewhere. The sport cannot afford to lose the Kent’s and Mildenhall’s of this world.

Simple enough Idea however when fans won't come out and watch free (some clubs do charge entry) British Youth Meetings just now they won't turn out for the above as suggested.

Scunthorpe and Redcar also run Summer/Winter Championships for all levels (entrants even pay to ride) yet very few come and watch those either.

The Kids who "make it" every year do so because of the commitment from parents, Clubs actually do very little in terms of bringing the own riders through nowadays and those who rely on "Go Fund My Hobby so I can get to the paid ranks because I'm entitled" will always struggle to make it.

Edited October 21, 2023 by MillenTheVillen

[KK62]

1 hour ago, *JJ said:

This already exists: the Midland Junior League. Unfortunately, the idiot BSPL mostly destroyed it as they couldn't be bothered to run it. As for curfews, Birmingham manage to run a 15 heat main match and a MJL match before 10 pm ... and have found enough riders to run two teams.

Your kidding yourself if you think the MDL still exists, it doesn’t !

One club , in the MIDLANDS ,running two teams against a Redcar side, in the NORTH,  is NOT a league. 
The BSPL never had anything to do with running the MDL or any other junior league so don’t blame them.

But Birmingham do an excellent job of providing racing for the youth, so you got that bit right.

[False dawn]

3 minutes ago, KK62 said:

Your kidding yourself if you think the MDL still exists, it doesn’t !

One club , in the MIDLANDS ,running two teams against a Redcar side, in the NORTH,  is NOT a league. 
The BSPL never had anything to do with running the MDL or any other junior league so don’t blame them.

But Birmingham do an excellent job of providing racing for the youth, so you got that bit right.

The fact that the BSPL has never shown any interest in youth development is very much their fault.

[KK62]

1 hour ago, 25yearfan said:

100% but another reason the BSPL destroyed it was because it was successful. The still born Premiership Junior League is still very painful to mention.

Again….the BSPL did not destroy it, they simply stopped the use of ‘ghost ‘ names, the teams could still have ran under a different name associated with the track they ran out of.

Im no fan of the BSPL but they did not destroy it, the will to run it ( and the BSPL had nothing to do with that either) simply ran out because of the names used.

[KK62]

2 minutes ago, False dawn said:

The fact that the BSPL has never shown any interest in youth development is very much their fault.

Now THAT…I will give you.

[25yearfan]

23 hours ago, eric i said:

Whats the problem with Kent and Mildenhall? I know Mildenhall struggle to produce a safe track.

Kent got in a spot of bother with the BSPL cause the track they rent, Iwade tried to stage a NORA meeting which I believe had nothing to do with the Kent promotion. Therefore I hear they are looking towards the NORA set up next season and leaving the BSPL umbrella?

 

Mildenhalls problem is that when a heavy grippy track surface occurs on their West Row track the inexperienced nature of most riders at NDL level who aren't used to grippy tracks means that crashes are inevitable. The last meeting against Leicester in the cup final was raced on a grippy surface cause of the time of the year. I commented at the meeting that had this been a higher League meeting most of the crashes wouldn't have happened and the more experienced riders would of relished the conditions. Like a previous poster hints upon, Mildenhalls track gets an unfair repututation because of the above reasons. 

[25yearfan]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:27 AM, KK62 said:

Again….the BSPL did not destroy it, they simply stopped the use of ‘ghost ‘ names, the teams could still have ran under a different name associated with the track they ran out of.

Im no fan of the BSPL but they did not destroy it, the will to run it ( and the BSPL had nothing to do with that either) simply ran out because of the names used.

In effect they did destroy it cause the Midland development League was running very well at the time. I agree with the sentiment that "ghost" teams aren't ideal but unfortunately in modern times British speedway is in no ideal state so if any "ghost" team can spark a possible reopening of a track in the "ghost" teams area in the same way that Rye House, Scunthorpe and Oxford reopened their own tracks after "ghost" teams using their name rode in meetings on other tracks then surely thats a good thing?

Edited October 23, 2023 by 25yearfan