NDL Future

[MillenTheVillen]

To be fair some clubs do treat their Juniors (and other Clubs Juniors) the same as their Paid Seniors and they are 100% included in that Club without being paid.

The reality of it all is if your a Parent who can't invest £60,000 minimum to do at least 5 years needed (and upgrade equipment as you go) to be able to step into the NDL then as it is now your paying riders in the NDL who will never make it in the CL or PL (there's riders in NDL who have ridden  for up to10 years who have barely got above a 3 points average)

We hear Boughen etc has only been on the bike a year etc, he rode Moto x at the highest level for years and has done his time (Moto x route) the same as every other junior who's climbed the ranks and invested the money in training and track time, it's not the Clubs doing it.

Riders wanting Van's, engines, ridiculous wages demands for the NDL is all wrong, if you have been riding for years you should already have the equipment!

Edited October 21, 2023 by MillenTheVillen

[False dawn]

5 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

In effect they did destroy cause the Midland development League was running very well at the time. I agree with the sentiment that "ghost" teams aren't ideal but unfortunately in modern times British speedway is in no ideal state so if any "ghost" team can spark a possible reopening of a track in the "ghost" teams area in the same way that Rye House, Scunthorpe and Oxford reopened their own tracks after "ghost" teams using their name rode in meetings on other tracks then surely thats a good thing?

I never quite got the objection and eventual banning of ghost teams. If you start with the objective of organizing a racing environment whereby young riders can get competitive track time on a regular basis and enough people are willing to pay to watch them, what's the problem?

[False dawn]

6 minutes ago, MillenTheVillen said:

To be fair some clubs do treat their Juniors (and other Clubs Juniors) the same as their Paid Seniors and they are 100% included in that Club without being paid.

The reality of it all is if your a Parent who can't invest £60,000 minimum to do at least 5 years needed (and upgrade equipment as you go) to be able to step into the NDL then as it is now your paying riders in the NDL who will never make it in the CL or PL (there's riders in NDL who have ridden  for up to10 years who have barely got above a 3 points average)

We hear Boughen etc has only been on the bike a year etc, he rode Moto x at the highest level for years and has done his time (Moto x route) the same as every other junior who's climbed the ranks and invested the money in training and track time, it's not the Clubs doing it.

Riders wanting Van's, engines, ridiculous wages demands for the NDL is all wrong, if you very been riding for years you should already have the equipment!

Ok. So if we're going down that route perhaps the BSPA should be organizing formal track days to attract riders from other bike formulae. 

[MillenTheVillen]

10 minutes ago, False dawn said:

Ok. So if we're going down that route perhaps the BSPA should be organizing formal track days to attract riders from other bike formulae. 

I believe they did or spoke  about it (I'm sure someone will confirm or correct me) but why does it need to be the BSPA and not the Clubs and Promotions?

Parents pay xyz on training to get their kid to CL level then Clubs pounce and command loan fees for them for their whole careers without investing anything in them. Clubs only pay attention to kids when they turn 14/15 and get closer to having a value as they near their 16th Birthday.

The Northern Clubs seem to be better now at the Junior Scene than the Southern ones but the Southern Juniors are having to travel North to Them for structured Competitive Track time.

Then the Southern Clubs swoop in and sign the Southern Lads without having to do any of the leg work.

The EFL don't hold Acadeny Days so Football Clubs can get players so why should the BSPA

Edited October 21, 2023 by MillenTheVillen

[25yearfan]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:57 AM, False dawn said:

I never quite got the objection and eventual banning of ghost teams. If you start with the objective of organizing a racing environment whereby young riders can get competitive track time on a regular basis and enough people are willing to pay to watch them, what's the problem?

Agree completely.

I think the objection was cause they saw it as fans running "ghost" teams with no intention whatsoever of reopening a track in the teams area. I see where the authorities are coming from in that respect but when Rye House ran in the 1999 Conference League using Mildenhall and Eastbourne as home tracks the consortium doing it didn't reopen Hoddesdon the next year, Len Silver did. But if the 1999 consortium hadn't reopened at Mildenhall and Eastbourne would Len Silver have been motivated to reopen the track the following year?

In this day and age of not enough tracks any possibility/spark or little acorn that may lead to a track reopening has to be encouraged or at worst not hindered and/or nipped in the bud.

Edited October 22, 2023 by 25yearfan

[25yearfan]

And this goes back to what I was saying before, the NDL has to remain one of the reasons being is that its the easiest way for new tracks to enter the league system.

[Hawk127]

1 hour ago, 25yearfan said:

And this goes back to what I was saying before, the NDL has to remain one of the reasons being is that its the easiest way for new tracks to enter the league system.

Or allow tracks to run on an open licence basis so that tracks can run individual meetings or for that matter any type of meeting except league matches. For many years Rye House ran on an open licence and I think this was before the Rockets took up residence in 1974.

[Binman]

23 hours ago, KK62 said:

Your kidding yourself if you think the MDL still exists, it doesn’t !

One club , in the MIDLANDS ,running two teams against a Redcar side, in the NORTH,  is NOT a league. 
The BSPL never had anything to do with running the MDL or any other junior league so don’t blame them.

But Birmingham do an excellent job of providing racing for the youth, so you got that bit right.

No but they stopped a lot of clubs running Reading etc

[mikebv]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:43 AM, 25yearfan said:

In effect they did destroy cause the Midland development League was running very well at the time. I agree with the sentiment that "ghost" teams aren't ideal but unfortunately in modern times British speedway is in no ideal state so if any "ghost" team can spark a possible reopening of a track in the "ghost" teams area in the same way that Rye House, Scunthorpe and Oxford reopened their own tracks after "ghost" teams using their name rode in meetings on other tracks then surely thats a good thing?

You cannot have a "ghost" team but a team full of "guests" is more than acceptable...

[ch958]

On 10/21/2023 at 10:57 AM, False dawn said:

I never quite got the objection and eventual banning of ghost teams. If you start with the objective of organizing a racing environment whereby young riders can get competitive track time on a regular basis and enough people are willing to pay to watch them, what's the problem?

there isn't a problem, just stupid spiteful decision making, cf Iwade, IOW. Add Redcar to the list of clubs that emerged from 'ghost' teams. 

[marko]

I would scrap it and run a second half like they used too in the 80s, two teams of four riders, or three can be done and often was.

And this was after a 16 heat main match in the National League days.

If some people want to leave after the main match,  no problem, it makes it easier to get out for those want don’t mind hanging around for a bit rather than a mass exodus as soon as heat 15 is completed.

At Arena Essex plenty of the crowd had already gone once the riders came round on a lap of honour because they want to beat the rush and had no reason to hang on for a few minutes.

Even in the 90s this was being used, remember the super Ipswich junior team they had, it was something like Ben Howe, Leigh Lanham, Sav Clouting & Lawrence Hare.

Arena Essex had the likes of Robert Ledwith, Tommy Palmer, Shaun Nichols, Chris Young, Roland Pollard, Russel Etherington, and a few of them got outings in the main team over the years.

[brianbuck]

I certainly hope that some way can be found for the NDL to be able to continue next season, but regardless of whether it does or doesn't, it shouldn't be beyond the wit of all tracks to be able to stage two heats and a final for locally based junior/beginner riders (strictly their own junior riders - not riders "shared" with other tracks!). These races should include one (or even both) of the home club's reserves as the "target man" but if said reserves think it is beneath them to race against beginners, or think that they should be paid for doing so, then do without them - but they shouldn't be too surprised if one of the newcomers is is rapid developer and that they lose their place in the team to him!

[25yearfan]

9 hours ago, marko said:

I would scrap it and run a second half like they used too in the 80s, two teams of four riders, or three can be done and often was.

And this was after a 16 heat main match in the National League days.

If some people want to leave after the main match,  no problem, it makes it easier to get out for those want don’t mind hanging around for a bit rather than a mass exodus as soon as heat 15 is completed.

At Arena Essex plenty of the crowd had already gone once the riders came round on a lap of honour because they want to beat the rush and had no reason to hang on for a few minutes.

Even in the 90s this was being used, remember the super Ipswich junior team they had, it was something like Ben Howe, Leigh Lanham, Sav Clouting & Lawrence Hare.

Arena Essex had the likes of Robert Ledwith, Tommy Palmer, Shaun Nichols, Chris Young, Roland Pollard, Russel Etherington, and a few of them got outings in the main team over the years.

The 1992 Ipswich junior team that was probably the best team ever had Ben Howe, Laurence Hare, Savalas Clouting and Shaun Tacey as its most regular team members. Leigh Lanham didn't come on the scene until gone half way through the 1993 season!

 

So you'd like to wipe Mildenhall Fen Tigers from the speedway map by disbanding the 3rd Division?

 

The current BSPL cannot be trusted to create a new junior League set up, just look at the farce that was the Premiership Junior League of a couple of years back!

[MillenTheVillen]

8 hours ago, 25yearfan said:

 

 

So you'd like to wipe Mildenhall Fen Tigers from the speedway map by disbanding the 3rd Division?

 

If the NDL does run (nobody has confirmed it's not it's all the winter merry go round of he said she said) it will undoubtedly be smaller than the current set up with Berwick pulling out and Workington moving up.

Mildenhall and Kent if they don't run is not the Bspa's fault that's down to both the Clubs,

Mildenhall already stating they have issues with owners and crowd levels and being able to do track in time, Kent similar problems with crowd numbers.

A possible 4 team League should reset it to developing riders once you take out those who shouldn't be riding at the top and bottom orders just to be paid.

Time the Clubs invested in Juniors not the Bspa

Easy to blame the Bspa when promoters don't actually promote anymore!

[Sings4Speedway]

A lot of calls for the 2nd halves to return and aside from the mega list of reasons why it failed previously (driving out ghost teams, rising costs, midweek fixtures, it goes on) the big reason why they are unlikely to feature again is there is no progression route without the NDL. At one point there were decent numbers of amateurs travelling big distances over a season to compete in the second halves (check out the stats 8-10 years ago), riders who were throwing good money at their own personal dream of getting a shot in the NL one day.  Why would anyone do that now? Would anyone honestly recommend speedway to a friend a hobby/sport to get into?

There are currently dozens of kids that are to come of age in the next year or two that will either get no shot or will have to bridge the gap between youth level and CL level, can anyone honestly see that going well? For British speedway to survive another 10 years it needs new blood to replace the ageing riders who might eventually retire, that means a NDL supported by higher division clubs/BSPL or a Nora league that can operate with the blessing of the SCB/BSPL as a complementary product rather than an opposing one.

[*JJ]

22 hours ago, mikebv said:

You cannot have a "ghost" team but a team full of "guests" is more than acceptable...

I have never seen an explanation as to why 'You cannot have a "ghost" team'?

[Chris116]

1 minute ago, *JJ said:

I have never seen an explanation as to why 'You cannot have a "ghost" team'?

Because they might be better supported than the BSPL mafia teams and that is not allowed.

[SteelShoe]

On 10/20/2023 at 3:22 PM, DBP said:

How about returning to the old fans favourite happiness is 40- 38 yes 13 heat matches then having a second half for  junior racers

Like the idea of second halves for juniors. iI returning to 13 heats would 5 laps per race add anything ?

[False dawn]

Just now, SteelShoe said:

Like the idea of second halves for juniors. iI returning to 13 heats would 5 laps per race add anything ?

a lap?

[brianbuck]

If its a question of creating time to fit in a couple of Junior races, then I would recommend scrapping Heat 15 of the main match, which is a race that just encourages the building of top-heavy teams, and which is in any case, more often than not, just a replica of Heat 13, and is usually only staged after a lengthy delay after Heat 14.

I don't really see the need for it.