Skidder1 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 13 minutes ago, HGould said: It'll all depend on the transition of the dogs. I was told by someone in the previous promotion that ARC income from dogs 6 days a week purely from TV rights was in the region of 70k. Before you sell a meal or booze which is lucrative too at weekend dogs. Clearly Speedway rent and minimal booze and food income 15 times a year will mean I suspect that once the dogs transition the gates will be locked and stay locked for good. I know its Arc to Arc, but they surely won't stop the greyhounds at Perry Barr until the new track and all the other paraphenalia are available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 I'm just thinking....if there's no dog racing? what will happen to the stadium ? will it lie dormant till 'builders/construction' move in ? Surely that will need all sorts of planning regs etc.... So, with that in mind, wouldn't speedway get another year, as its better than no income at all ? Unless I'm missing something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: I know its Arc to Arc, but they surely won't stop the greyhounds at Perry Barr until the new track and all the other paraphenalia are available? I not an out and out dog expert but have mates who are. They tell me the dogs that go from PB to Wolves will have to be trialled there as its a new track and they are graded to different levels I think the same happened when Poole dogs went elsewhere. So they can't I don't think run at both tracks other than in a small number of open races. Re Speedway running on its own, I just can't see how it would be viable if they had to cover all the costs to keep the stadium open for 1 event per week other than 7 days, rates, electric, water, security, insurance etc. Probably be looking at 1500 plus crowds to cover that. ARC will want to optimise profit at Dunstall Park not dilute it by keeping PB open. Plus easier to twist arms to sell if its lying empty. We all know what happens to empty buildings... Think Crooked House and Brandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, HGould said: I not an out and out dog expert but have mates who are. They tell me the dogs that go from PB to Wolves will have to be trialled there as its a new track and they are graded to different levels I think the same happened when Poole dogs went elsewhere. So they can't I don't think run at both tracks other than in a small number of open races. Re Speedway running on its own, I just can't see how it would be viable if they had to cover all the costs to keep the stadium open for 1 event per week other than 7 days, rates, electric, water, security, insurance etc. Probably be looking at 1500 plus crowds to cover that. ARC will want to optimise profit at Dunstall Park not dilute it by keeping PB open. Plus easier to twist arms to sell if its lying empty. We all know what happens to empty buildings... Think Crooked House and Brandon. Got Ya ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heathen52 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 hours ago, HGould said: It'll all depend on the transition of the dogs. I was told by someone in the previous promotion that ARC income from dogs 6 days a week purely from TV rights was in the region of 70k. Before you sell a meal or booze which is lucrative too at weekend dogs. Clearly Speedway rent and minimal booze and food income 15 times a year will mean I suspect that once the dogs transition the gates will be locked and stay locked for good. Streamed greyhound meetings are paid in excess of 30k per meeting, Perry Barr/Dunstall Park are due to hold 4 per week in 2024, incidentally that leaves 3 free days at PB; Monday, Friday and Sunday, yes I know they may want to hold greyhound trials but that could easily be done on an greyhound raceday in fact it's logistically better because all the staff are there, Trainers are there etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 hours ago, heathen52 said: Streamed greyhound meetings are paid in excess of 30k per meeting, Perry Barr/Dunstall Park are due to hold 4 per week in 2024, incidentally that leaves 3 free days at PB; Monday, Friday and Sunday, yes I know they may want to hold greyhound trials but that could easily be done on an greyhound raceday in fact it's logistically better because all the staff are there, Trainers are there etc etc. Greyhound trials would be at Dunstall not PB. Once Dunstall is ready all PB dogs will go there. They'll then trial for Grading before opening. As explained without Dogs can't see ARC retaining their interest at PB just to facilitate Speedway. All Wolverhampton Horses are on Sky so it'll be interesting to see how quickly spades are in the ground to build the dog track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianbuck Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 As ARC Racing are not the leaseholders at Perry Barr (they are tenants of the Corbally Group who ARE the leaseholders), theoretically, another organisation wishing to stage greyhound racing could move in there and take over, which would be the ideal solution for the Brummies? (says he in desperate hopefullness!!!!) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 (edited) 36 minutes ago, brianbuck said: As ARC Racing are not the leaseholders at Perry Barr (they are tenants of the Corbally Group who ARE the leaseholders), theoretically, another organisation wishing to stage greyhound racing could move in there and take over, which would be the ideal solution for the Brummies? (says he in desperate hopefullness!!!!) Brian I did ask my friends about the possibility of this. The response was along the lines of, that the main issue would be that there is no space at the TV streaming end of the product and that's where the money is. The old Cradley Heath, Norton Canes or Willenhall type of license, which had no TV but betting revenue and drinks income, just not practical these days. Edited October 31, 2023 by HGould Added dog track names Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSL84 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 Be interesting to find out when ARC lease expires? At Perry Barr Been told it could be 3 or 4 months before Dunstall Park will be fully up and running. Could that help the Brummies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 hour ago, SSL84 said: Be interesting to find out when ARC lease expires? At Perry Barr Been told it could be 3 or 4 months before Dunstall Park will be fully up and running. Could that help the Brummies? If it's so soon would probably be the death knell for PB. Can't see any way it can be viable without dogs. It's far more likely too get planning permission if it isn't a going concern for a number of functions. Best hope would have been if Dunstall Park wouldn't be ready until 2025. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skidder1 Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 So just to get this right, Mr Tolley said Mondays (hence Premiership) were the only days offered by PB for 2024. Also he was looking at a meeting with the stadium people hoping for a speedway sub-lease of at least 2 years in order to invest more of his dosh.( this looks doubtful in light of ARC getting planning permission for the race course!)? So is the current position that Brummies are not running in either league? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted October 31, 2023 Report Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Skidder1 said: So just to get this right, Mr Tolley said Mondays (hence Premiership) were the only days offered by PB for 2024. Also he was looking at a meeting with the stadium people hoping for a speedway sub-lease of at least 2 years in order to invest more of his dosh.( this looks doubtful in light of ARC getting planning permission for the race course!)? So is the current position that Brummies are not running in either league? The speed of the Planning Approval for ARC at Dunstall Park is the game changer. ARC hold all the cards including the Jokers. ARC are brutal and ruthless. Dunstall Park merely needs a track. The whole infrastructure is there already at a venue they run already. The minute Dunstall is ready they'll cast PB aside. PB has no way of staging viable dogs under independent control as the TV rights will go to Dunstall Park. I think the situation is desperate if ARC decide to move quickly on the planning approval. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) Thought I read there was six years left on Corbally’s long lease. Nigel did announce he investigated being the primary lease holder from Corbally at circa £300k per annum. Perhaps an opportunity for other sub letters to come in and subsidise the speedway, if Nigel takes the biggy on. I wonder what the council charge Corbally? There must be some profit for Corbally in that £300k. If the the council allowed stox, let’s get them in. Edited November 1, 2023 by Deano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Are Corbally involved with the proposed housing development? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Deano said: Thought I read there was six years left on Corbally’s long lease. Nigel did announce he investigated being the primary lease holder from Corbally at circa £300k per annum. Perhaps an opportunity for other sub letters to come in and subsidise the speedway, if Nigel takes the biggy on. I wonder what the council charge Corbally? There must be some profit for Corbally in that £300k. If the the council allowed stox, let’s get them in. Nice idea but 1500 adults per meeting for 10 meetings just to cover the lease. Thats Fantasy League stuff. Even if he found and sold 200 Gérard engines the BSPL seem to have lost it would only be a drop in the Ocean Edited November 1, 2023 by HGould Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 16 hours ago, HGould said: The speed of the Planning Approval for ARC at Dunstall Park is the game changer. ARC hold all the cards including the Jokers. ARC are brutal and ruthless. Dunstall Park merely needs a track. The whole infrastructure is there already at a venue they run already. The minute Dunstall is ready they'll cast PB aside. PB has no way of staging viable dogs under independent control as the TV rights will go to Dunstall Park. I think the situation is desperate if ARC decide to move quickly on the planning approval. Good summary, the speed of the planning for Dunstall is remarkable They could conceivably start building today provided there are no relevant reserved matters 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 15 minutes ago, noaksey said: Good summary, the speed of the planning for Dunstall is remarkable They could conceivably start building today provided there are no relevant reserved matters Agreed I think we all thought 12 months. It's also easy to overlook how little they have to do. Everything is there other than track and fence. They literally just have to plug in from extensive electrics and realign the brilliant existing lights slightly. Kennels would be easily installed too. They could feasibly be running early 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neila Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 Even if he found and sold 200 Gérard engines the BSPL seem to have lost it would only be a drop in the Ocean Forgot about these whatever happened to them, thought they were gonna save/reduce costs for British speedway?? Just another shambles by them in charge or Godfrey? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyretrax Posted November 1, 2023 Report Share Posted November 1, 2023 10 hours ago, HGould said: Nice idea but 1500 adults per meeting for 10 meetings just to cover the lease. Thats Fantasy League stuff. Even if he found and sold 200 Gérard engines the BSPL seem to have lost it would only be a drop in the Ocean As far as I know no engines were purchased, just an agreement to buy as required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted November 2, 2023 Report Share Posted November 2, 2023 On 11/1/2023 at 9:28 AM, uk_martin said: Are Corbally involved with the proposed housing development? Yes and the lease holders Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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