Brummies

[SteveLyric2]

3 minutes ago, Deano said:

Yes and the lease holders

Was it not stated earlier that they had no immediate plans to develop PB. Although Council were 'encouraging' them to start sooner?

[Deano]

1 minute ago, Skidder1 said:

Was it not stated earlier that they had no immediate plans to develop PB. Although Council were 'encouraging' them to start sooner?

Yes I believe that is the case. If I was charging 300k per annum for doing nothing, why rush.

 

but there’s only six years left then it gets handed back to the council. Also we must remember this land was given to the council on condition its  used for sports.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Deano

[HGould]

The fact though is that Corbally are now up the creek without a paddle and a boat full of holes. 

Corbally were totally reliant on ARC and their predecessor before them. 

The prospects of someone taking over the dogs is nil. ARC hold the TV rights for Bags and dog racing transferred to Dunstall Park . ENTAIN formerly Ladbrokes hold TV rights at Monmore. No space for more TV rights in this neck of the woods. Not enough dogs. 

Speedway is reliant on dogs or something generating the cash to cover lease ARC paid. 

You might find another sub tenant, which Tolley may have alluded to when saying he might find 300k to take on the Lease but what sub tenant!??! 

No chance of Stocks on noise and planning. Any other credible sport is either elsewhere like American Football, Rugby League or Union but very minority interest in Brum and stadium totally unsuitable anyway

Sad very very sad to say just cannot see a way forward without dogs? 

Edited November 2, 2023 by HGould
Spelling

[SteveLyric2]

32 minutes ago, HGould said:

The fact though is that Corbally are now up the creek without a paddle and a boat full of holes. 

Corbally were totally reliant on ARC and their predecessor before them. 

The prospects of someone taking over the dogs is nil. ARC hold the TV rights for Bags and dog racing transferred to Dunstall Park . ENTAIN formerly Ladbrokes hold TV rights at Monmore. No space for more TV rights in this neck of the woods. Not enough dogs. 

Speedway is reliant on dogs or something generating the cash to cover lease ARC paid. 

You might find another sub tenant, which Tolley may have alluded to when saying he might find 300k to take on the Lease but what sub tenant!??! 

No chance of Stocks on noise and planning. Any other credible sport is either elsewhere like American Football, Rugby League or Union but very minority interest in Brum and stadium totally unsuitable anyway

Sad very very sad to say just cannot see a way forward without dogs? 

What about the greyhound chap who got the Oxford stadium on a ten year lease? Where did those dogs come from?

[Brian Buck]

Just a slight clarification - Birmingham have not  yet been offered Monday nights or any other night as a racenight, and also have not been offered an extension on their lease of the stadium.

This information is required in order that the Brummies can commit to racing in any league, Premiership, Championship or NDL, and as far as I know, this needs to be forthcoming by the date of the BSPL AGM. 

[HGould]

38 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

What about the greyhound chap who got the Oxford stadium on a ten year lease? Where did those dogs come from?

Poole and Swindon from memory 

Thats not the issue though 

You need the TV to generate betting turnover and income, literally globally, particularly in the Far East. 

ARC and Entain have that tied up and if you ran dogs without it, those who turn up and bet simply can't generate the turnover. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by HGould
Added

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

Poole and Swindon from memory 

Thats not the issue though 

You need the TV to generate betting turnover and income, literally globally, particularly in the Far East. 

ARC and Entain have that tied up and if you ran dogs without it, those who turn up and bet simply can't generate the turnover. 

But the Oxford guy has at least 2 other greyhound tracks! Does he not get tv at those as well as at Cowley?

If he hasn't got tv then how does he make it pay? Nb Swindon dogs are still fully operational.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Skidder1

[heathen52]

8 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

But the Oxford guy has at least 2 other greyhound tracks! Does he not get tv at those as well as at Cowley?

If he hasn't got tv then how does he make it pay? Nb Swindon dogs are still fully operational.

 

Boothby ownes or leases several Tracks; his own Henlow, and leases on Mildenhall, Oxford, Towcester they are streamed by the other player in the Streaming business SIS https://www.sis.tv/  they used to be the main players in the Bookies streaming service but Premier Greyhound wanted a bigger slice of the pie so set up there own service, basically SIS stream from the Tracks that Premier Greyhounds don't cover..

[HGould]

53 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

But the Oxford guy has at least 2 other greyhound tracks! Does he not get tv at those as well as at Cowley?

If he hasn't got tv then how does he make it pay? Nb Swindon dogs are still fully operational.

 

29 minutes ago, heathen52 said:

 

Boothby ownes or leases several Tracks; his own Henlow, and leases on Mildenhall, Oxford, Towcester they are streamed by the other player in the Streaming business SIS https://www.sis.tv/  they used to be the main players in the Bookies streaming service but Premier Greyhound wanted a bigger slice of the pie so set up there own service, basically SIS stream from the Tracks that Premier Greyhounds don't cover..

I doubt the turnover on those smaller tracks combined is much more than one of the bigger grossing tracks like Monmore. ARC are part of a massive Group and Entain gobbled up Ladbrokes

Boothby will be playing in a lower sphere in terms of dog racing. 

 

[SteveLyric2]

45 minutes ago, HGould said:

 

I doubt the turnover on those smaller tracks combined is much more than one of the bigger grossing tracks like Monmore. ARC are part of a massive Group and Entain gobbled up Ladbrokes

Boothby will be playing in a lower sphere in terms of dog racing. 

 

But presumably Boothby makes it pay at that level?

[SPEEDY69]

I thought Mildenhall dogs closed several years ago, is it still running? 

[HGould]

9 hours ago, Skidder1 said:

But presumably Boothby makes it pay at that level?

Clearly he does but I doubt if he could make Perry Barr pay if he had to take on the 300k lease per annum that ARC have taken on.

His Greyhound TV income from the tracks he controls would be a fraction of what ARC have received for a prime venue in PB. It's clear that he has successfully found a niche with a streaming option that is good at picking up medium level dog venues with lower overheads and lease / rental agreements from the top level dog venues.

The crux is that Corbally called a tune that ARC were happy to play / pay but the probability of anyone else being able to play / pay at that level without the prime TV deal is nigh on impossible. It's important to point out that an afternoon UK dogs meeting is beamed to massive massive betting markets in Asia and the Far East who are 7-8 hours ahead so prime evening betting markets on a massive scale compared to UK domestic markets. 

Thats the market ARC / Entain are playing in and why they see Speedway very very sadly as being not only irrelevant but something of a pain in their Corporate necks!

[topaz325]

Hope Birmingham get sorted out but this leaves the Premiership in an almighty mess if Birmingham do not move up , unless there are a couple of tracks going to rise out of the ashes?

[heathen52]

9 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I thought Mildenhall dogs closed several years ago, is it still running? 

Boothby decided on a name change it runs under the name Suffolk Downs, sounds much grander but some say the name should be Suffolk Clowns but we won't go there. .

Edited November 3, 2023 by heathen52

[SteveLyric2]

1 hour ago, HGould said:

Clearly he does but I doubt if he could make Perry Barr pay if he had to take on the 300k lease per annum that ARC have taken on.

His Greyhound TV income from the tracks he controls would be a fraction of what ARC have received for a prime venue in PB. It's clear that he has successfully found a niche with a streaming option that is good at picking up medium level dog venues with lower overheads and lease / rental agreements from the top level dog venues.

The crux is that Corbally called a tune that ARC were happy to play / pay but the probability of anyone else being able to play / pay at that level without the prime TV deal is nigh on impossible. It's important to point out that an afternoon UK dogs meeting is beamed to massive massive betting markets in Asia and the Far East who are 7-8 hours ahead so prime evening betting markets on a massive scale compared to UK domestic markets. 

Thats the market ARC / Entain are playing in and why they see Speedway very very sadly as being not only irrelevant but something of a pain in their Corporate necks!

I get all that. But when ARC move the PB dogs to the new track they'll be left with a PB lease of £300k p.a. With no income? Unless they surrender the lease back to Corbally. If Corbally aren't ready to develop PB despite pressure from council then surely there is a possibility of someone (Tolley + others?) to negotiate a short term lease for sports to continue?

[Deano]

6 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

I get all that. But when ARC move the PB dogs to the new track they'll be left with a PB lease of £300k p.a. With no income? Unless they surrender the lease back to Corbally. If Corbally aren't ready to develop PB despite pressure from council then surely there is a possibility of someone (Tolley + others?) to negotiate a short term lease for sports to continue?

We need to keep the stox and other motor sports options open, like speedway they aren't every week these days, stox could fill some of those quiet speedway weeks. Has the wheels gone yet? There's a motorsports complex under a risk of development why not push for the council to bring it to PB. Yes planning will be tough, but the covenent and the fact the council need cash, corbally need the income could help that case.

[STEVEHOLS54]

With the BSPA meting 10/11th Nov, it begs the question what IF Brum can't guarantee having Speedway let alone Prem in 2024 ??. Can they plan or even start a 5 team Prem with doubts about the TV also prepared to cover such a small league.

Makes you think what would the back up plan B be.

Edited November 3, 2023 by STEVEHOLS54
typo

[Neila]

The ones in charge are that shortsighted plan B won't have entered their heads yet !!

[Deano]

48 minutes ago, STEVEHOLS54 said:

With the BSPA meting 10/11th Nov, it begs the question what IF Brum can't guarantee having Speedway let alone Prem in 2024 ??. Can they plan or even start a 5 team Prem with doubts about the TV also prepared to cover such a small league.

Makes you think what would the back up plan B be.

The million dollar question is, do the decision makers around the availability of the stadium deliberately wait until after the BSPA meeting. It seems every year lately we are awaiting on a decision by the land lords and seem to either be on some kind of life line. It's like someone somewhere really does want Birmingham speedway to fail.

[HGould]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

I get all that. But when ARC move the PB dogs to the new track they'll be left with a PB lease of £300k p.a. With no income? Unless they surrender the lease back to Corbally. If Corbally aren't ready to develop PB despite pressure from council then surely there is a possibility of someone (Tolley + others?) to negotiate a short term lease for sports to continue?

I'm sure ARC will break the Lease. No one would take them on for doing that, neither Corbally nor the Council. 

Corbally would then assume all ongoing costs and would have to work out minimum to open the gates. Energy, insurance, staff, so many other things. They would look to recoup a fair chunk of the 25k per month they get now. 

Staff would be reduced massively and would need contracts for 12 to 15 nights a year instead of 20 to 25 a month. 

Birmingham Brummies attract crowds of 500 to 600, I can't see Corbally wanting less that 10k a month, so effectively 10k a meeting. So the average crowd would may be cover the rent. 

Sadly just can't see it being feasible. 

Nigel will have to be very wary that the Management Committee don't screw him over just to get the 6th team.

That's the equivalent of sticking Polyfilla in the San Andrea's Fault and the Sport totally missing the point.