SGP wild cards 2024

[TheReturn]

5 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said:

Nope, could never agree with that. Nothing to do outside of the stadium, seating extremely limited (for the World Cup a few years the temporary stand were awful, people just peeing on the grass and food queues 2 miles long) and if it rains a totally wasted trip.  Fine if you only ever watch on TV.

From a sporting spectacle a GP at Belle Vue would offer amazing racing, and I would welcome Belle Vue over Cardiff every day of the week.   But it's become clear that the GPs are only minimally about the sport these days.

[SPEEDY69]

1 hour ago, TheReturn said:

From a sporting spectacle a GP at Belle Vue would offer amazing racing, and I would welcome Belle Vue over Cardiff every day of the week.   But it's become clear that the GPs are only minimally about the sport these days.

On the TV yes, in person no thanks. 

[Col]

On 10/3/2023 at 3:08 PM, Gavan said:

So you think Kubera, Huchenbeck and Lebedevs are better riders than Janowski??

No Huchenbeck and Lebedevs are not as talented on a Speedway bike as Janowski . Jurys out on Kubera. But I think being out the GP's for a season may give Janowski the kick up the proverbial he needs.  No one will remember how many followers you have on Social Media, having a World Championship puts a rider in the history books 

 

 

[Bavarian]

USA Teammanager Steve Evans has made a quite interesting proposal for a revamp of the SGP and its qualifying system.

 

[waiheke1]

8 hours ago, Bavarian said:

USA Teammanager Steve Evans has made a quite interesting proposal for a revamp of the SGP and its qualifying system.

 

Thinking outside thr box, but sounds like a terrible proposal tbh! 

[waiheke1]

23 hours ago, arnieg said:

In theory supplementing qualification with wildcards should ensure the strongest possible field, but the problem is that there is no transparency - who makes the choice and what are the criteria?

 

For example in the last 5 GPs:

Lebedevs 5 GPs 0 semi finals

Fricke 5 GPs 5 semi finals.

 

Yet Fricke is out and Lebedevs is in

(I quite like Lebedevs and don't think he'll be out of his depth, but still...)

Fricke is very unlucky, and deserved a place imo. 

I can understand going Kubera over Janowski/Dudek, and I think in the past we've seen an unwillingness to seed riders from nations that already hsve 3 representatives. 

Would have liked to see Becker higher in the reserve list. 

I'm not as disappointed with the wildcards as others, though obviously would hsve liked (from a speedway perspective) to see Artem and Emil in rather than Lebedevs and Huckenbeck.

And while those latter two may be in, at least partly, to give representation to more nations; they will be far more competitive than  the continental riders in the world finals of the 80s (Muller excepted of course).

And outside the Russians, there is noone who would hsve been fighting for a medal missing from thr series

[fatface]

59 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

And while those latter two may be in, at least partly, to give representation to more nations; they will be far more competitive than  the continental riders in the world finals of the 80s (Muller excepted of course).

And outside the Russians, there is noone who would hsve been fighting for a medal missing from thr series

Agree. A lot of hyperbole over this being the "worst line up ever" and the like. It isn't perfect, but it's still very good. With Zmarzlik we have an all-time great, Woffinden and Doyle two highly capable ex-World Champions, hardened contenders and proven GP winners like Madsen, Vaculik, Lindgren....younger contenders for medals like Holder, Bewley, maybe even Lambert? 

If people are determined to find the weaker GP years, probably 2013 at the end of the Rickardsson/Crump/Pedersen/Gollob era when Tai was able to come in as a wild card and win the whole damn thing. Unimaginable today. And in overall World Championship speedway, then you'd be hard pressed to beat 1989. Injuries and a flawed qualifying system meant we had a World Final missing Ermolenko, Moran, Knudsen, Jonsson, Pedersen, Nilsen...and instead had Tyrvainen, Olsson, Smith, Riss, Butler, Maier, Adorjan, Brhel. Not so good old days.

[waiheke1]

7 minutes ago, fatface said:

Agree. A lot of hyperbole over this being the "worst line up ever" and the like. It isn't perfect, but it's still very good. With Zmarzlik we have an all-time great, Woffinden and Doyle two highly capable ex-World Champions, hardened contenders and proven GP winners like Madsen, Vaculik, Lindgren....younger contenders for medals like Holder, Bewley, maybe even Lambert? 

If people are determined to find the weaker GP years, probably 2013 at the end of the Rickardsson/Crump/Pedersen/Gollob era when Tai was able to come in as a wild card and win the whole damn thing. Unimaginable today. And in overall World Championship speedway, then you'd be hard pressed to beat 1989. Injuries and a flawed qualifying system meant we had a World Final missing Ermolenko, Moran, Knudsen, Jonsson, Pedersen, Nilsen...and instead had Tyrvainen, Olsson, Smith, Riss, Butler, Maier, Adorjan, Brhel. Not so good old days.

Every final in the 80s was missing a genuine contender, with the possible exception of 81.  And had at least 4 riders that you couldn't see winning a ride.

Zmarzlik as you say is an all-time great - if GPs were present in the 80s, would Nielsen have cleaned up from 83 onwards and we be bemoaning the lack of competition? - but the title went to the last heat. Holder, Bewley and Lambert are improving each season.  Woffy reminds me of a post-77 Peter Collins, both he and Doyley would have an outside chance in a one off final, unlikely to be world champion agsin in this format, but are top ten riders. Freddy, Vaculik and Mads capable of pushing Zmarzlik close if they have a great season, though I can't see any of them being world champ. 

The rider we still miss in this era tbh is Darcy. 

[fatface]

5 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

The rider we still miss in this era tbh is Darcy. 

True dat.

Also, in Sayfutdinov's case, he's had ten cracks at the World Championship and never won it. I don't argue that he is top class, but he's a unlikely World Champion at this stage of his career. Laguta is a more interesting case. Just my opinion of course, but in the year he did win it, he frequently ventured beyond calculated risk and was often outright dangerous. I don't think he could repeat that.

[waiheke1]

25 minutes ago, fatface said:

True dat.

Also, in Sayfutdinov's case, he's had ten cracks at the World Championship and never won it. I don't argue that he is top class, but he's a unlikely World Champion at this stage of his career. Laguta is a more interesting case. Just my opinion of course, but in the year he did win it, he frequently ventured beyond calculated risk and was often outright dangerous. I don't think he could repeat that.

Emil is one of my all time favourite riders, and will go into discussions about the greatest riders never to be world champion.

Bur his peak years he was missing from the series of his own volition. Similarly, I wouldn't have sympathy for Darcy if the only reason he missed out was his ban. 

Agree that at this point, he is, imo, less of a threat to Zmarzlik than the young talent in the series. 

[arnieg]

10 minutes ago, waiheke1 said:

Emil is one of my all time favourite riders, and will go into discussions about the greatest riders never to be world champion.

Bur his peak years he was missing from the series of his own volition. Similarly, I wouldn't have sympathy for Darcy if the only reason he missed out was his ban. 

Agree that at this point, he is, imo, less of a threat to Zmarzlik than the young talent in the series. 

The years he chose to miss were when he was mid 20s. Many top riders peak over 30 these days (Vaculik, Lindgren, Madsen), so he could be at his peak now, or may not even have reached it.

[waiheke1]

5 minutes ago, arnieg said:

The years he chose to miss were when he was mid 20s. Many top riders peak over 30 these days (Vaculik, Lindgren, Madsen), so he could be at his peak now, or may not even have reached it.

Fair point ArnieG! That said, I think racers may peak earlier in their careers than gaters

Edited October 6, 2023 by waiheke1

[iris123]

4 hours ago, arnieg said:

The years he chose to miss were when he was mid 20s. Many top riders peak over 30 these days (Vaculik, Lindgren, Madsen), so he could be at his peak now, or may not even have reached it.

I'd like to see his Polish averages. Swedish as well. 

But for me, if we just look at Emil and not 'Many top riders', he does seem to have peaked fairly early in his career. Knocks taken a toll ? Family life ? Who knows, and i am willing to be proven wrong, but his GP successes seem to be a distant memory really. He could have an indian summer of course, it just seems unlikely now. And i say that with disappointment, because he was great early on and i thught a certain first Russian world champ

I see out of his 7 GP wins, 6 came before his break from the GPs, and only 1 since he came back

Edited October 6, 2023 by iris123

[arnieg]

1 hour ago, iris123 said:

I'd like to see his Polish averages. Swedish as well. 

But for me, if we just look at Emil and not 'Many top riders', he does seem to have peaked fairly early in his career. Knocks taken a toll ? Family life ? Who knows, and i am willing to be proven wrong, but his GP successes seem to be a distant memory really. He could have an indian summer of course, it just seems unlikely now. And i say that with disappointment, because he was great early on and i thught a certain first Russian world champ

I see out of his 7 GP wins, 6 came before his break from the GPs, and only 1 since he came back

Best ranking: 1st 2020

2nd best 2nd this year

3rd best 3rd in 2019

4th best 2014 4th

5th equal: 5th in 2012 & 2013

7th best 6th in 2018

[Ghostwalker]

Emil was leading the standings of SGP in 2013 when he was fenced by (don't remember who) in the Latvia GP. Emil broke his arm
there and missed the rest of the season. It's likely he would have been world champion that year even if Tai wasn't that far behind.

[OveFundinFan]

3 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

Emil was leading the standings of SGP in 2013 when he was fenced by (don't remember who) in the Latvia GP. Emil broke his arm
there and missed the rest of the season. It's likely he would have been world champion that year even if Tai wasn't that far behind.

Pretty sure it was Medinski. Shut the door on Emil on the straight, Emil took a tumble then was run over by another rider. Watched a replay just about a week ago. Really nasty, was career threatening it was said, but he come back.

[chunky]

3 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

It's likely he would have been world champion that year even if Tai wasn't that far behind.

Again, however likely it was, there is no guarantee. The history of speedway world championships is littered with copious "what ifs", "if onlys", and "coulda, woulda, shouldas"...

[iris123]

See UEFA have backed out of reinstating the Russian U17 team into competitions.....

[iris123]

20 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

Emil was leading the standings of SGP in 2013 when he was fenced by (don't remember who) in the Latvia GP. Emil broke his arm
there and missed the rest of the season. It's likely he would have been world champion that year even if Tai wasn't that far behind.

It was back then that he looked awesome, and as i said, i thought he looked likely to win a title at some time. But like Chunky points out, you haven't won it until you have won it

[OveFundinFan]

1 minute ago, iris123 said:

See UEFA have backed out of reinstating the Russian U17 team into competitions.....

Just reading the news about it.

It states about a dozen national associations, including the English Football Association, publicly expressed their opposition to playing against Russia if drawn against them at either the men’s competition in Cyprus or the women’s in Sweden next year.