JC71 Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 9 minutes ago, therefused said: No Fricke, Magic or Dudek apparently That would surely add weight to Ledbedevs (sp?) being in...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 10 minutes ago, JC71 said: That would surely add weight to Ledbedevs (sp?) being in...... That could well be the case. I also wonder if strong representations have been made /are being made to try and get Becker in? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC71 Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) 17 minutes ago, WembleyLion said: That could well be the case. I also wonder if strong representations have been made /are being made to try and get Becker in? I possibly wouldn't be against that..... So, maybe, Zmarzlik Lindgren Vaculik Holder Masden Lambert Kvech Michaelsen (?sp) Bewley Ledbedevs Becker Doyle Wozniak (Ideal world) Laguta Sayfutdinov If not the Russians (Poles), then Woffinden A N Other (? Thomson) Edited October 1, 2023 by JC71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 Shame about the Russians if left out.Woffy past it IMO.Bewley and Fricke for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 17 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Shame about the Russians if left out.Woffy past it IMO.Bewley and Fricke for me It doesn't matter that you feel Woffy is "past it"; he is still one of the best riders in the world, and deserves to be there. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparks123 Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 13 hours ago, CB252 said: You can find a reason to invalidate most speedway world titles of you look hard enough. Laguta and Sayfutdinov had their chance to beat Bartosz over a full Ekstraliga season and failed spectacularly once again this year, just as they did last year. Last time I looked there was 0.083 between Bartosz and Emil (wouldn't say that is a spectacular fail) in the extraliga averages? What I would add is that Emil was above 14 GP riders in the averages. Think Bartosz won 3-2 in their head to heads in the regular season and I think it was 3-3 in the playoffs (possibly with an exclusion for Emil). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 Kelvin Tatum is going for Leon Masden as a wildcard for next year! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, norbold said: Kelvin Tatum is going for Leon Masden as a wildcard for next year! So, we can have Madsen AND Masden? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 hours ago, sparks123 said: What I would add is that Emil was above 14 GP riders in the averages. And Eric Boocock was above everybody in the 1969 averages except for Briggs and Mauger. And that proves what, exactly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Technik Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 I can't honestly see Laguta or Sayfutinov being in the equation. They are Russians that have moved to Poland & taken Polish passports but the PZM has not used them as Poles within their international fixtures nor have they appeared in the National championship. My guess is that Poland will not nominate them for consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo95 Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 8 hours ago, sparks123 said: Last time I looked there was 0.083 between Bartosz and Emil (wouldn't say that is a spectacular fail) in the extraliga averages? What I would add is that Emil was above 14 GP riders in the averages. Think Bartosz won 3-2 in their head to heads in the regular season and I think it was 3-3 in the playoffs (possibly with an exclusion for Emil). CB252 is correct about them failing spectacularly last year against Bartosz. I cannot see them even in the averages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 hours ago, Technik said: I can't honestly see Laguta or Sayfutinov being in the equation. They are Russians that have moved to Poland & taken Polish passports but the PZM has not used them as Poles within their international fixtures nor have they appeared in the National championship. My guess is that Poland will not nominate them for consideration. Schroedinger's Poles Polish enough to be riding in Ekstraliga as Polish citizens on Polish passports with Polish licences, but not Polish enough for FIM competition. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norbold Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 7 hours ago, chunky said: So, we can have Madsen AND Masden? Oh dear...I'm as bad as Kelvin! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazS Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 8 hours ago, chunky said: And Eric Boocock was above everybody in the 1969 averages except for Briggs and Mauger. And that proves what, exactly? that eric had a better average than everybody apart from Mauger and Briggs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 23 hours ago, CB252 said: It's not irrelevant as it's the only yardstick by which we can currently measure them. That and all barring one GP season. Erik didn't have Hans number at all. In all the finals Erik won, Hans picked up silver. Erik was clowning around halfway down the field in 86. And also failed to medal in 89. Hmmm. World Final head-to-head record was 8-3 to Erik, including two run-offs for the title. You can make a valid case for Nielsen having a better career record. But I think its pretty clear Erik was better when it came to crunch-time between the two. As for Zmarzlik's place in history, I think he's one of the greatest ever. There are no mugs in the GPs, as there were in many World Finals. There's no Petr Ondrasiks or Robert Slabons. I don't think there many - if any - World Finals where you could make a valid case that all the world's best were present. He's proved himself the best of the era and not just in what he has won, also the way he does it. He can win from the front, win from the back, on any type of track and in pressure situations. And you honestly can't say that of a lot of all-time greats. He's a tremendous rider. Edited October 2, 2023 by fatface 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, fatface said: There are no mugs in the GPs, as there were in many World Finals. There's no Petr Ondrasiks or Robert Slabons. I don't think there many - if any - World Finals where you could make a valid case that all the world's best were present. And that's because it was never designed to qualify all the world's best. If it had been, you wouldn't have had the continental qualifiers. It was designed to get a variety of nations represented, regardless of how good the riders were. People today still don't get how flawed the old system was... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, chunky said: And that's because it was never designed to qualify all the world's best. If it had been, you wouldn't have had the continental qualifiers. It was designed to get a variety of nations represented, regardless of how good the riders were. People today still don't get how flawed the old system was... And this is also true of the GPs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazS Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 the BLRC, used to have a better field than the world finals back in the day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, chunky said: And that's because it was never designed to qualify all the world's best. If it had been, you wouldn't have had the continental qualifiers. It was designed to get a variety of nations represented, regardless of how good the riders were. People today still don't get how flawed the old system was... Maybe. I think in the late 60s/early 70s, it was just about fit for purpose. But by the time of mid 70s onwards, I don't think the Poles, Czechs and the rest were competitive. Jiri Stancl, solid as he was, is a NINE-TIME world finallist. Shawn Moran, Phil Crump, Kelly Moran, Malcolm Simmons all got to just three finals each. There were loads of years where some of the Continental WF qualifiers would have struggled to get through a British Semi Final. Edited October 2, 2023 by fatface 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 2 hours ago, fatface said: Hmmm. World Final head-to-head record was 8-3 to Erik, including two run-offs for the title. You can make a valid case for Nielsen having a better career record. But I think its pretty clear Erik was better when it came to crunch-time between the two. Also worth noting that Gundersen's World Final average is 11.55. Nielsen's is 11.26. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.