Edinburgh v Scunthorpe Champ Play-offs Saturday 23rd Sept 7pm

[IainB]

25 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

Alex Spooner would have been the obvious pick, had he not got injured.

I also feel riders like Danny Phillips & Greg Blair (before injury) surely wouldn't have said Edinburgh is too far when they race for Berwick?

They're not exactly strong 2.00 riders, but would score more than Wood.

I don't want to go on about it (honestly) but I don't think I've ever seen a rider so clearly far out of his depth stay in a team for so long. He's got an average of 0.65 and has only scored 8 points all season and 5 of those were gifted as there was no rider behind him due to exclusions/ef's!

Edited September 23, 2023 by iainb

[mc131]

13 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:

Alex Spooner would have been the obvious pick, had he not got injured.

I also feel riders like Danny Phillips & Greg Blair (before injury) surely wouldn't have said Edinburgh is too far when they race for Berwick?

They're not exactly strong 2.00 riders, but would score more than Wood.

I'm sure phillips is just over 2.00

[cyclone]

5 hours ago, eide67 said:

More depressing viewing for Monarchs fans. One of the lowest crowds I've ever seen at a senior meeting at Armadale.

Do they deliberately make the track as difficult as possible for the home riders? Track was perfect last night but back to being slippery again tonight.

Same for both sides though and Edinburgh are not at the races. Very poor.

Track preparation has never been consistently good since Alan Bridgett retired and the quality of racing has deteriorated, irrespective of home team performances.

Occassionally we get good racing on what appears to be a well prepared circuit, but sadly that is the exception to the norm.

IMO excuses about poor weather or shale are not credible, given that our near neighbours now provide a good racing strip @ Ashfield nearly every time, under similar climate & material constraints.

[GM95]

8 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

I can't understand why Wood has a Champ team spot, as there MUST be stronger British riders out there.

I often get told, they are not willing to travel up, but unless the club posts a list of riders, who were unwilling to sign for them, have to blame them for not signing someone stronger!

Sounds like a great idea, let’s publicly out any rider that refuses to sign for us. I’m sure the rider we end up with will feel brilliant knowing he was 3rd/4th choice. Muppet

Dayle isn’t the issue… yes he’s not CL level but the way the team was built at the start of the season is the issue. We were loyal to riders that showed signs of improving but have let us down. We have had a horrific season with injuries and Cook’s has had his personal issues but it’s still no excuse for how poor we’ve been at home. Big changes needed for next season, possibly only Lasse / Paco back.

[Mr Blobby]

11 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

Alex Spooner would have been the obvious pick, had he not got injured.

I also feel riders like Danny Phillips & Greg Blair (before injury) surely wouldn't have said Edinburgh is too far when they race for Berwick?

They're not exactly strong 2.00 riders, but would score more than Wood.

 

11 hours ago, iainb said:

Even if they weren't stronger, British and bad would be preferable to foreign and bad. They do have an academy but still elect not to track a single British rider now Craig Cook appears to have left the scene!

Spooner injured so that rules him out. Simpson has a full time job so wouldn’t be able to do it. Dayle the only option from the academy. 
 

He was originally a stop gap for the changes we made till we got a better 2 pointer in. Tried several different riders from up and down the country. Got answers from just a simple no don’t want a spot, to wanting too much money, too far to travel, doesn’t fit into their schedule. A couple then went on to ride for different championship clubs in the end. 
 

Dayle knows himself he’s not ready for the championship and so do the club but we kind of got stuck with him due to no availability of young Brits. Too many think they’re big time now when in reality they’re not. 

[Wee Eck]

2 hours ago, GM95 said:

Sounds like a great idea, let’s publicly out any rider that refuses to sign for us. I’m sure the rider we end up with will feel brilliant knowing he was 3rd/4th choice. Muppet

Dayle isn’t the issue… yes he’s not CL level but the way the team was built at the start of the season is the issue. We were loyal to riders that showed signs of improving but have let us down. We have had a horrific season with injuries and Cook’s has had his personal issues but it’s still no excuse for how poor we’ve been at home. Big changes needed for next season, possibly only Lasse / Paco back.

I think the team was built in the expectation that Craig Cook “coming home” was a master stroke. But, for once, Glasgow outsmarted Edinburgh in letting Craig go. Picko started well but has not recovered his form after injury. Likewise Lasse. Paco will always be a hot and cold rider. Edinburgh’s loyalty to him is like Glasgow’s was to Lee Dicken. Always hopeful, always disappointed. Kyle Bickley was another strange choice. Not one team in five or is it six seasons has seen the results that Kyle looked like he would deliver when he was 15.

It’s not that long since Edinburgh put together exciting and successful teams by bringing in young talented riders who turned into stars but the magic seems to have gone. Although consistency in promotions is to be applauded, there always comes a time when the old guard need to stand to one side and let the next generation take over. Glasgow have done it with Peter Facenna taking over from Gerry, Poole are doing it with Dan and Matt. Is there anyone at Edinburgh not just able to step into old man’s shoes but who the old men would be willing to stand aside for?

[IainB]

26 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

 

Spooner injured so that rules him out. Simpson has a full time job so wouldn’t be able to do it. Dayle the only option from the academy. 
 

The thing is would the likes of Simpson give up his full time job if offered a team spot for the whole season? If not you wonder why he's riding speedway in the Academy, because sooner or later he's going to have to make a decision on whether he wants to be a Speedway rider or not.

[Macca]

Agree with the comments. The way the team was built and being too loyal to riders.
 

Kye had a good meeting last night, credit to him, but he’s not progressed to be a heat leader this season, as was the hope. That, and having R/R or poor guests for Cook, left us with only one heat leader who, as exciting and hard working as he is, is not a reliable number 1. 
 

As well as carrying Wood as a passenger, Lasse as a passenger whenever returning from an injury, and Borke on all tracks apart from Berwick and Glasgow. 
 

Personally, I’d have Picko back next season, if we could get a more reliable number 1 (e.g. Masters). Other than that, maybe Paco, but can someone please explain how that is the same rider in his first 2 heats and then second 2 heats. Literally goes from Dayle Wood to prime Ryan Fisher. Unreal but frustrating! Although maybe next season is when Paco does sign for Birmingham!! 

[Fromafar]

3 minutes ago, Macca said:

Agree with the comments. The way the team was built and being too loyal to riders.
 

Kye had a good meeting last night, credit to him, but he’s not progressed to be a heat leader this season, as was the hope. That, and having R/R or poor guests for Cook, left us with only one heat leader who, as exciting and hard working as he is, is not a reliable number 1. 
 

As well as carrying Wood as a passenger, Lasse as a passenger whenever returning from an injury, and Borke on all tracks apart from Berwick and Glasgow. 
 

Personally, I’d have Picko back next season, if we could get a more reliable number 1 (e.g. Masters). Other than that, maybe Paco, but can someone please explain how that is the same rider in his first 2 heats and then second 2 heats. Literally goes from Dayle Wood to prime Ryan Fisher. Unreal but frustrating! Although maybe next season is when Paco does sign for Birmingham!! 

Paco is your typical slick track rider,has too wait till dirt has moved out then he can toddle round the inside too some points.He is the same every meeting.

[*JJ]

22 minutes ago, Macca said:

Personally, I’d have Picko back next season, if we could get a more reliable number 1 (e.g. Masters). Other than that, maybe Paco, but can someone please explain how that is the same rider in his first 2 heats and then second 2 heats. Literally goes from Dayle Wood to prime Ryan Fisher. Unreal but frustrating! Although maybe next season is when Paco does sign for Birmingham!! 

Yes please!

[Macca]

12 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

Paco is your typical slick track rider,has too wait till dirt has moved out then he can toddle round the inside too some points.He is the same every meeting.

Appreciate that and know it’s generally true, but I’m sure he rode the outside in his last 2 rides and did he not take Kemp from the outside in 14? Can’t recall (someone watching back can maybe correct me). If so, just highlights the inconsistency!! 

[Al Stewart]

14 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

I can't understand why Wood has a Champ team spot, as there MUST be stronger British riders out there.

I often get told, they are not willing to travel up, but unless the club posts a list of riders, who were unwilling to sign for them, have to blame them for not signing someone stronger!

Here are some comments that might be relevant to this discussion.

 

1.       In considering a rider I believe the factors Edinburgh would take into account are: Quality, Cost, Availability. Nationality would not be considered.

2.       Danny Phillips and Greg Blair were mentioned as possible alternatives to Dayle Wood. Meaning no disrespect, I would back Dayle to beat either of them currently at Armadale.

3.       In my opinion we have not tried hard enough to replace Dayle and we have done him no favours by asking him to step into that role before he is ready. He is a good, entertaining NDL standard rider who has improved over the season.

4.       HOWEVER it is not easy to find a really good replacement. We tried right up to the signing cutoff to bring Luke Killeen into our 1-7 but he preferred to remain a guest only. I think he was mistaken and has therefore had fewer bookings than he might have had.

5.       Anyone else we might have asked, such as Sam Hagon, Max Perry or Max James, may or may not have wanted the job but possibly might have cost quite a bit, ridden better but not scored much more, and would be very unlikely to become an Edinburgh rider. Geography is always a problem for us.

[szkocjasid]

One thought about riders not wanting to travel up to Edinburgh (for whatever reason) in theory every NL heat leader should want to step up to the Champ next year, but there won't be that many places available, if riders only want to race for local clubs, they may miss out on a Champ team spot.

[Gr8scot]

Firstly, congratulations to Scunthorpe

As for us….. I don’t think I have ever endured such a frustrating season. Unlike some, I felt we had a good young team that were ripe to kick on this year but our wheels came off at Berwick when Josh crashed out. Without our leader and showman extraordinaire we were sunk that early.

They are a bunch of nice guys but personality doesn’t win meetings. I am a great believer that a winning team has to have great reserves.

Josh is the only one I would keep (supposing he wants to come back?) but as always happens, the others will probably come back to bite us.

Speedway eh?

[Nickinho]

7 hours ago, GM95 said:

Sounds like a great idea, let’s publicly out any rider that refuses to sign for us. I’m sure the rider we end up with will feel brilliant knowing he was 3rd/4th choice. Muppet

Dayle isn’t the issue… yes he’s not CL level but the way the team was built at the start of the season is the issue. We were loyal to riders that showed signs of improving but have let us down. We have had a horrific season with injuries and Cook’s has had his personal issues but it’s still no excuse for how poor we’ve been at home. Big changes needed for next season, possibly only Lasse / Paco back.

Edinburgh should not take Lasse and Paco back next season, Paco is too often away and will always be a 5-point rider who only turns up for heat 14 and Lasse's confidence looks shot to pieces since his injury. Josh, Kye and Bastian are the only riders that should be in the minds of the promotion going into next season. 

[Macca]

1 hour ago, Nickinho said:

Edinburgh should not take Lasse and Paco back next season, Paco is too often away and will always be a 5-point rider who only turns up for heat 14 and Lasse's confidence looks shot to pieces since his injury. Josh, Kye and Bastian are the only riders that should be in the minds of the promotion going into next season. 

Logically, you are spot on re Paco. A classic ‘heart says yes, head says no’ for many fans, I suspect. 
 

Out of interest, what would be your rationale for taking Kye and Bastian back? 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Macca

[TheScotsman]

Don't think Borke has shown enough to warrant being brought back 

2 decent meetings away from home isn't it? 

[Noelinho]

Assuming the requirements don’t change for next year, Lasse has one of the best average discrepancies in the league. His 2023 average is about 0.7 above his rolling average, so if there’s any hope he can match his 2023 average next year, he’s good value. He does seem to always be injured though. I’m not actually 100% I’ve ever seen him race at Armadale come to think of it! Which is probably why I’ve only just noticed his home average is quite weak…