Bojangles Posted September 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Grachan said: Don't know the whole situation here, but everyone knows the Poland get priority on Sundays. It's why the Premier League ride on Mondays and Thursdays, as these are the days we get priority (or at least it was last time I looked). So I guess he would have had no choice. We don't have priority on Thursdays anymore. We gave that up in the deal that allowed riders contracted to Ekstraliga teams to compete in more than one other league. Polish priority on Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Redtruck said: As discussed the same when Charles went out if he didn’t go and stayed to ride in the uk for Redcar it would mean a 28 day fim ban so wouldn’t be able to ride anywhere 13 minutes ago, Grachan said: Don't know the whole situation here, but everyone knows the Poland get priority on Sundays. It's why the Premier League ride on Mondays and Thursdays, as these are the days we get priority (or at least it was last time I looked). So I guess he would have had no choice. You always have a choice, this is all about contracts. If you've signed a contract for a British Club saying you'll be there for all league, cup & play off fixtures, anybody can say anything about reserved race days etc. it doesn't make a jot of difference... of course we don't know what's in Connor's contracts with his clubs. Something is very wrong here and to just explain it away, like they did on BSN, with a throw away "That's Speedway" line is just not on. Poland used to just plunder our top boys in the top league... now they're dictating to us where and when our junior riders can ride. I don't really care who's fault it is, at the end of the day the whole sport revolves around the play-offs and for riders to be missing to spectate at another meeting in a foreign country is just not on! Edited September 25, 2023 by iainb 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 14 minutes ago, Bojangles said: We don't have priority on Thursdays anymore. We gave that up in the deal that allowed riders contracted to Ekstraliga teams to compete in more than one other league. Polish priority on Thursdays, Fridays and Sundays. It's amazing the power that Poland holds over everyone at the moment. Just look at what happened with Tai Woffinden yesterday. The problem is that one day the sport will probably decline there too and there will be nothing left anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 12 minutes ago, iainb said: You always have a choice, this is all about contracts. If you've signed a contract for a British Club saying you'll be there for all league, cup & play off fixtures, anybody can say anything about reserved race days etc. it doesn't make a jot of difference... of course we don't know what's in Connor's contracts with his clubs. Something is very wrong here and to just explain it away, like they did on BSN, with a throw away "That's Speedway" line is just not on. Poland used to just plunder our top boys in the top league... now they're dictating to us where and when our junior riders can ride. I don't really care who's fault it is, at the end of the day the whole sport revolves around the play-offs and for riders to be missing to spectate at another meeting in a foreign country is just not on! The thing is, this would have been known when he signed up for the Polish league. "That's speedway" actually sums it up perfectly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, Grachan said: It's amazing the power that Poland holds over everyone at the moment. Just look at what happened with Tai Woffinden yesterday. The problem is that one day the sport will probably decline there too and there will be nothing left anywhere else. During his evidence statement last week Phil Morris said that riders in the top echelon earn in excess of £1m per year and you have to assume that Woffy is one of these riders, so it's no surprise that when Poland say jump he asks how high? Connor Bailey does not earn anywhere near that amount though, especially when he's not riding. I'll grant you that British Speedway doesn't help itself by showing it's riders, on the whole, no loyalty at all, but at the end of the day it's the fans that suffer as usual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted September 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 16 minutes ago, iainb said: During his evidence statement last week Phil Morris said that riders in the top echelon earn in excess of £1m per year and you have to assume that Woffy is one of these riders, so it's no surprise that when Poland say jump he asks how high? Connor Bailey does not earn anywhere near that amount though, especially when he's not riding. I'll grant you that British Speedway doesn't help itself by showing it's riders, on the whole, no loyalty at all, but at the end of the day it's the fans that suffer as usual. While I agree with most of what you're saying, can you really blame Connor Bailey for signing for Wroclaw at the stage of the season where he knew he would only be required to race on a Sunday? He wasn't to know that a meeting would then be rearranged for a Sunday, not one of either clubs' dedicated race nights? Should he have turned down the chance to impress in Poland on the off chance? Bigger issue for me is the fixture congestion/backlog that has caused clubs to try and cram in the playoff fixtures desperately on any day, even knowing they won't be able to field a full strength team. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 minute ago, Bojangles said: While I agree with most of what you're saying, can you really blame Connor Bailey for signing for Wroclaw at the stage of the season where he knew he would only be required to race on a Sunday? He wasn't to know that a meeting would then be rearranged for a Sunday, not one of either clubs' dedicated race nights? Should he have turned down the chance to impress in Poland on the off chance? Bigger issue for me is the fixture congestion/backlog that has caused clubs to try and cram in the playoff fixtures desperately on any day, even knowing they won't be able to field a full strength team. That's what I'm saying about these riders needing to make their mind up which side their bread is buttered... a guaranteed season in Britain with however many meetings that entails or the chance of a shot in Poland? At the moment the riders want to have their cake and eat it. Don't get me wrong I can totally understand why they do it as there are many clubs in the UK that show zero loyalty to riders, Leicester and then there are those that probably show too much, Edinburgh, Dayle Wood! So there is no "guarantee" of say 30 meetings a season in the UK and this is where it all falls down. If Bailey was offered a season contract at the start of the year guaranteeing him a team place for the whole year as long as he raced in ALL fixtures, no matter when they were arranged for, he may be more inclined to turn down the Polish carrot. And until that happens, we're always going to have incidents like this and the fans that have followed a club all year all of a sudden get sh@t on come pay off time 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 The issue for me is the fixtures and British speedway's inability to get fixtures done in a timely fashion. Oxford should never have had to ride a home fixture on a Sunday in mid September. It wasn't that long ago we were bemoaning the lack of British riders in Polish leagues, we can't now complain that they are missing our fixtures to be there when we can't get our own act together. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, iainb said: During his evidence statement last week Phil Morris said that riders in the top echelon earn in excess of £1m per year and you have to assume that Woffy is one of these riders, so it's no surprise that when Poland say jump he asks how high? Connor Bailey does not earn anywhere near that amount though, especially when he's not riding. I'll grant you that British Speedway doesn't help itself by showing it's riders, on the whole, no loyalty at all, but at the end of the day it's the fans that suffer as usual. Interestingly a number of years ago Marcin Rempala couldn’t commit to a season at Berwick he earned more sitting in the pits in Poland and getting very few chances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Interestingly a number of years ago Marcin Rempala couldn’t commit to a season at Berwick he earned more sitting in the pits in Poland and getting very few chances. He is Polish though and Poland should be his bread and butter. British Riders riding for British Clubs on British Licences should be committed to Britain as their bread and butter, Poland should be the icing on the cake and in time maybe their bread and butter if they're good enough, at the moment they're just chasing a carrot... I'm hungry now Edited September 25, 2023 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, iainb said: That's what I'm saying about these riders needing to make their mind up which side their bread is buttered... a guaranteed season in Britain with however many meetings that entails or the chance of a shot in Poland? At the moment the riders want to have their cake and eat it. Don't get me wrong I can totally understand why they do it as there are many clubs in the UK that show zero loyalty to riders, Leicester and then there are those that probably show too much, Edinburgh, Dayle Wood! So there is no "guarantee" of say 30 meetings a season in the UK and this is where it all falls down. If Bailey was offered a season contract at the start of the year guaranteeing him a team place for the whole year as long as he raced in ALL fixtures, no matter when they were arranged for, he may be more inclined to turn down the Polish carrot. And until that happens, we're always going to have incidents like this and the fans that have followed a club all year all of a sudden get sh@t on come pay off time But Bailey wasn’t….he was only signed after Shane’s declared he wasn’t going to be fit and he had already got a Polish contract before his deal with Redcar. The problem here is not the riders, it’s the BSPL’s handing of the hole play off situation , fixtures and the ill thought out rules 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 2 hours ago, Bagpuss said: Masters can be a whingey plank as we've seen over the years, the only one I'd back him over was having a go at Pedersen in the Aussie GP Everyone has a go at Pedersen! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 21 minutes ago, iainb said: He is Polish though and Poland should be his bread and butter. British Riders riding for British Clubs on British Licences should be committed to Britain as their bread and butter, Poland should be the icing on the cake and in time maybe their bread and butter if they're good enough, at the moment they're just chasing a carrot... I'm hungry now What I’m saying is IMO Bailey earned more sitting in the pits in Poland yesterday and sees Poland as his future.British speedway is always going to be 2 nd choice for any decent prospect.Poland is a hard gig though,lots of talented youngsters coming through as the Brits likes of Brennan and Flint are finding out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Fromafar said: What I’m saying is IMO Bailey earned more sitting in the pits in Poland yesterday and sees Poland as his future.British speedway is always going to be 2 nd choice for any decent prospect.Poland is a hard gig though,lots of talented youngsters coming through as the Brits likes of Brennan and Flint are finding out. Yes, I totally get what you're saying and to some extent agree but the likes of Bailey for example may have earn't more sat on his arse yesterday at Wroclaw than he would riding at Oxford... but he's only getting that opportunity because of his scoring in Britain. If he wants to commit to Poland, he should commit to Poland and go out there to sit on his arse every week. British Speedway needs to protect its asset base, if that means central contracts or something along those lines then so be it. You can't have the likes of Redcar accepting or being forced into riding a play off fixture with half their team missing when the whole point of the league system is to build to some kind of grand finale. Edited September 25, 2023 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted September 25, 2023 Author Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 6 minutes ago, iainb said: Yes, I totally get what you're saying and to some extent agree but the likes of Bailey for example may have earn't more sat on his arse yesterday at Wroclaw than he would riding at Oxford... but he's only getting that opportunity because of his scoring in Britain. If he wants to commit to Poland, he should commit to Poland and go out there to sit on his arse every week. British Speedway needs to protect its asset base, if that means central contracts or something along those lines then so be it. You can't have the likes of Redcar accepting or being forced into riding a play off fixture with half their team missing when the whole point of the league system is to build to some kind of grand finale. Just to play devil's advocate. I've just read he signed a contract with Wroclaw in March this year, so has been contracted all season (I thought he'd only signed recently). It's not really his fault that Wroclaw haven't picked him until now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 5 minutes ago, iainb said: Yes, I totally get what you're saying and to some extent agree but the likes of Bailey for example may have earn't more sat on his arse yesterday at Wroclaw than he would riding at Oxford... but he's only getting that opportunity because of his scoring in Britain. If he wants to commit to Poland, he should commit to Poland and go out there to sit on his arse every week. British Speedway needs to protect its asset base, if that means central contracts or something along those lines then so be it. You can't have the likes of Redcar accepting or being forced into riding a play off fixture with half their team missing when the whole point of the league system is to build to some kind of grand finale. You have too remember that before the season no British Team wanted him because of off a 5+ average because of the weakening of the sport here.Signed to ride in Poland before he got offers here.British Speedway needs to look at itself it’s being run into the ground. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, foreverblue said: Everyone has a go at Pedersen! They are usually just having a go back!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 17 hours ago, Steve Shovlar said: So it’s all down to Glasgow v Oxford on Tuesday. A ten point lead is not enough imo and Glasgow with their powerhouse top 5 will prove too strong against a battling Oxford team. I am hoping for Oxford in the final as it’s a track up the road and we can have a big Pirate contingent, but a ten lead is small. Do Glasgow not have too win at Redcar even if they get bonus point.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreverblue Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 20 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: They are usually just having a go back!!! He is/was box office but many have suffered through his actions!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortythirtyeight Posted September 25, 2023 Report Share Posted September 25, 2023 1 hour ago, iainb said: Yes, I totally get what you're saying and to some extent agree but the likes of Bailey for example may have earn't more sat on his arse yesterday at Wroclaw than he would riding at Oxford... but he's only getting that opportunity because of his scoring in Britain. If he wants to commit to Poland, he should commit to Poland and go out there to sit on his arse every week. British Speedway needs to protect its asset base, if that means central contracts or something along those lines then so be it. You can't have the likes of Redcar accepting or being forced into riding a play off fixture with half their team missing when the whole point of the league system is to build to some kind of grand finale. The BSPL and Oxford knew Redcars predicament regarding lack of riders and still made them accept the date. You can’t blame riders, who are self employed, going where they get the best wage. The BSPL didn’t think of ‘protecting its asset base ‘ when it gave Poland the green light on prioritising race dates did it ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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