SPEEDY69 Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: If Tai rides for Wrocław on Sunday but then doesn’t ride on Monday he must get a 28 day ban for withholding his services. The question is though could Tai guest for himself on Thursday? Sure, Eurosport love him. If not get Bartek to guest, his MA from Birmingham all those years ago allows it. Sorry did you say Sheffield, who are they? Edited September 23, 2023 by SPEEDY69 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 In July 2015 Bradley Wilson Dean had an established NL match average but was given an assessed average for racing in the PL. He was blocked from guesting for Rye House as his assessed average took precedence over his established average. In September 2023 Robert Lambert had an established PL match average but was given an assessed average for racing in the PL. He was allowed to guest for Sheffield as his established average took precedence over his assessed average. http://www.ryehouse-speedway.com/news.php?extend.1046 http://www.speedwaygbarchive.co.uk/files/downloads/nl15_issue_9a.pdf 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 14 hours ago, ouch said: For what it’s worth……. From 2023 rule book “010.2.1 A Premiership Assessed League rider will establish an MA after completing 3 home and 3 away qualifying fixtures”. If Robert was deemed to have and established average he would have had a new average calculated on a rolling basis. Due to him being assessed he had to wait for 3 home & 3 away. “010.2.3 AmendedMA’s With the approval of the BSP LTD GC or Directors for: - a) riders who have been absent from British Speedway racing for more than 3 seasons (The MA may be increased or decreased)” Robert’s average was reassessed from that declared last year. 7.61 up to 7.81. “012.4.2 Guest Rider (G) c) the guest must be in a current team declaration and have an established MA”. Robert doesn’t have an established MA as his 2022 figure has been reassessed and he has already been treated as an assessed rider with him having to wait for 3 home & 3 away to get an established average. 2023 Premiership League TEAM DECLARATIONS and GREEN SHEETS Issue 32 states that Robert’s previously established average is no longer applicable due to being older than the previous 2 seasons and it is therefore assessed and cannot change until he has completed 3 home & 3 away meetings. Would it not be easier to simply state, "riders have to have a rolling average to be able to guest" Why to the rule makers make it so hard? Saying you need to have an MA, then list a bunch of reasons why riders don't have an MA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) Maybe I wrong, but I don't think of Wolves as the sort of club who would fight this "injustice" just meekly agree to what they're told? Last season Belle Vue have shown what can happen when you challenge the lawmakers, ditto Scott Nicholls 5 or so years ago when he was banned from doubling up. Edited September 23, 2023 by szkocjasid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 1 hour ago, SPEEDY69 said: Sure, Eurosport love him. If not get Bartek to guest, his MA from Birmingham all those years ago allows it. Sorry did you say Sheffield, who are they? Will his average have an '*' next to it? If so... Could be on this... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 19 hours ago, The Third Man said: Like i asked, what should Sheffield do, ride with two juniors? Or as they would also be guests perhaps a five man team would be better Some were saying we should have rode with two juniors last season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 17 hours ago, Baldyman said: Isn't it amazing not one Sheffield fan questioning Lamberts inclusion,,,is it cos this year it benefits you? OOhh the irony 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Third Man Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 Haven't seen any Belle Vue fans supporting the situation either, quite ironic as well 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noaksey Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 Rowe out for 9 days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevebrum Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 On 9/22/2023 at 12:59 PM, szkocjasid said: Most Polish fans seem to think the exact opposite, play-offs would be ruined by allowing guests. In any other sport in the world (plus foreign Speedway leagues), teams with injuries are weakened, don't know why British Speedway feels this is not fair? Big difference. Poland have squads to select from, UK doesn’t. On 9/22/2023 at 1:51 PM, proud panther said: It's obvious he will ride on Sunday & aggravate his injury in his last ride. Just like Laguta did and they got a facility for him. Beyond corrupt. 7 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: If Tai rides for Wrocław on Sunday but then doesn’t ride on Monday he must get a 28 day ban for withholding his services. The question is though could Tai guest for himself on Thursday? Why? Same with Laguta who rode all his rides in Poland but apparently ‘aggravated’ an injury earlier on this season. Kings Lynn got a facility. But I agree it’s corrupt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 22 hours ago, ouch said: For what it’s worth……. From 2023 rule book “010.2.1 A Premiership Assessed League rider will establish an MA after completing 3 home and 3 away qualifying fixtures”. If Robert was deemed to have and established average he would have had a new average calculated on a rolling basis. Due to him being assessed he had to wait for 3 home & 3 away. “010.2.3 AmendedMA’s With the approval of the BSP LTD GC or Directors for: - a) riders who have been absent from British Speedway racing for more than 3 seasons (The MA may be increased or decreased)” Robert’s average was reassessed from that declared last year. 7.61 up to 7.81. “012.4.2 Guest Rider (G) c) the guest must be in a current team declaration and have an established MA”. Robert doesn’t have an established MA as his 2022 figure has been reassessed and he has already been treated as an assessed rider with him having to wait for 3 home & 3 away to get an established average. 2023 Premiership League TEAM DECLARATIONS and GREEN SHEETS Issue 32 states that Robert’s previously established average is no longer applicable due to being older than the previous 2 seasons and it is therefore assessed and cannot change until he has completed 3 home & 3 away meetings. For what it's worth, I can't see anything in the Green Sheets that says his previous MA is not applicable? Even so, it does say his average is assessed. However, as I stated earlier, the BSPL has decided that Lambert does have an Established MA - the one he achieved in 2019. Anyway, the BSPA argument is that although 012.4.2 Guest Rider says "c) the guest must be in a current team declaration and have an established MA” it does not say he can't have an assessed average. Again, as I stated earlier, I haven't checked if anyone else with a * next to their name has been used as a guest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 Well I for one hope he has a tapes exclusion and three e/fs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 8 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Would it not be easier to simply state, "riders have to have a rolling average to be able to guest" Why to the rule makers make it so hard? Saying you need to have an MA, then list a bunch of reasons why riders don't have an MA A rolling average is not an official average, the published Green Sheets are the official averages - except when they're not ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 23 hours ago, Charlieboy said: Looks like there’s going to be a lot of supporters /fans / keyboard warriors who never go having some sleepless nights this weekend. Stop taking the sport so seriously. Guest riders have been in use for donkeys years and the sport can’t survive without them. FACT. We can’t run squads. Not enough riders and too expensive.Are Sheffield expected to use 2 juniors to make up the team ? That will definitely help Wolves get a healthy crowd. Not. Just accept what we’re been fed. Pay to watch or don’t go. Simple. Enjoy your weekend everyone There's no complaints about guests per se, it's just the promise of transparency is so often ignored. Read the Regs and then explain why Lambert can guest ... the BSPL has decided what the Regs don't say, and what the Green Sheets don't say, allows Lambert to guest. How many professional sports do that? Where's the transparency, let alone the scrutiny? Accepting what we're being fed is not the answer, that's why so many people have walked away from the sport over the years, while the Happy Clappers are taken for cash cow mugs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 Wouldn't it be simpler to have a rule that requires any guest rider engaged by a team taking part in the playoffs, to have completed a minimum of four official fixtures for another team/s prior to the commencement of the playoffs. "Completed" would be defined as having started in at least 4 heats, including heat 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 6 hours ago, The Third Man said: Haven't seen any Belle Vue fans supporting the situation either, quite ironic as well 100% endorse it... Great to see the world's best on track... Doyle seems to be back on Monday which is also great news... When you are shelling out circa fifty quid for two tickets you want to see the world's best..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouch Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 2 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said: For what it's worth, I can't see anything in the Green Sheets that says his previous MA is not applicable? Even so, it does say his average is assessed. However, as I stated earlier, the BSPL has decided that Lambert does have an Established MA - the one he achieved in 2019. Anyway, the BSPA argument is that although 012.4.2 Guest Rider says "c) the guest must be in a current team declaration and have an established MA” it does not say he can't have an assessed average. Again, as I stated earlier, I haven't checked if anyone else with a * next to their name has been used as a guest. His previous MA was 7.61. That is now not applicable and he is using the 7.81 that the powers that be clearly state is an assessed average. He had an established average, he no longer does as he is operating under his 7.81 assessed average as given to him by the powers that be. No assessed rider has guested before and I’ve already provided details of when a rider was stopped from guesting “because of the assessed average”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 8 hours ago, The Third Man said: Haven't seen any Belle Vue fans supporting the situation either, quite ironic as well Whats ironic? No Belle Vue fans complaining why should we come out in support not our club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 3 hours ago, Roger Jacobs said: There's no complaints about guests per se, it's just the promise of transparency is so often ignored. Read the Regs and then explain why Lambert can guest ... the BSPL has decided what the Regs don't say, and what the Green Sheets don't say, allows Lambert to guest. How many professional sports do that? Where's the transparency, let alone the scrutiny? Accepting what we're being fed is not the answer, that's why so many people have walked away from the sport over the years, while the Happy Clappers are taken for cash cow mugs. Yet strangely you endorse Lamberts inclusion in the BV team for the playoffs last year. A situation I can never remember happening before, we lost Freddy and Jacob to injury in the semifinals in 2017 and were refused permission to use Tai despite him being willing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUPERACE Posted September 23, 2023 Report Share Posted September 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Call me wolfie said: Yet strangely you endorse Lamberts inclusion in the BV team for the playoffs last year. A situation I can never remember happening before, we lost Freddy and Jacob to injury in the semifinals in 2017 and were refused permission to use Tai despite him being willing. Let's be clear. It was absolutely right that Lambert was aloud to ride last season. It is absolutely right that Lambert can guest for Sheffield this season. Both teams lost a huge rider. Both teams gained a huge rider. The rules are rubbish, will the BSPL ever learn. Sheffield fans may finally stop there moaning and whinging, but I doubt it lol. Edited September 23, 2023 by SUPERACE 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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