SteveLyric2 Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 19 minutes ago, SJA said: Live speedway as a product does not work on TV, unless you are going to screen three meetings live, alternating between each venue. That way you are not having to fill dead air. Also an added benefit to those fans watching live in the stadium of not having a long drawn out meeting. The alternative is the Quest, 1 hour highlights package, where they can drop a dull race and focus on a race and some professional analysis. I believe that will come with the ever-improving streaming by BSN and others. A one hour weekly highlights programme provided ideally for a Sports TV channel, with all production costs taken away from the TV company, having a regular time slot but also repeated several times during the week. Those fans who still want to see the live broadcasts and pay their £12 (or maybe a little more to cover BSN's extra costs?) can do so, and I bet would also watch the highlights package. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 Strangely speedway is a motorbike sport that has hardly any followers that are bikers,,, yes there are some,,, but it's not huge. Why? Cos it doesn't relate,, speedway needs to be more relatable to bikers. It's a huge audience waiting to be taped into. These F2 bikes that were not really made the most of should be pushed more,,, build a temp track at a British superbikes,, or world superbikes or moto gp weekend,,, thousands and thousands of people will then have something to watch inbetween the main events or on the evenings in between where thousands of people camp and want something to do 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, mikebv said: I agree to a large extent... But. You would think that those in charge would at least try something different before it inevitably happens wouldn't you? Post Covid really was a huge chance to make the radical changes needed, completely missed.. A gift horse passed up... Presumably, you can only think, it was passed up due to everything being "all good" in the eyes of the Promoters? . Which probably explains a lot, if that was the case. Bang on. It was an opportunity to admit things needed to change, take accountability and make the changes that needed to be made. Instead the same crap was put on ice and thawed out 12 months later to be re-served. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruckerroo Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 Speedway is literally in the same boat as the dogs, prostituting itself for tv money with zero thought for its supporters. On a previous thread i posted about no saturday track bar berwick, theres an enormous gap in the south /midlands for any track to grasp the nettle, hopefully in 2024. TV deals are all well and good but its to the detriment of the sport as a whole . The best supported club in the land are safely cocooned in the championship racing on the night that suits them . 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ch958 Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 12 minutes ago, ruckerroo said: Speedway is literally in the same boat as the dogs, prostituting itself for tv money with zero thought for its supporters. On a previous thread i posted about no saturday track bar berwick, theres an enormous gap in the south /midlands for any track to grasp the nettle, hopefully in 2024. TV deals are all well and good but its to the detriment of the sport as a whole . The best supported club in the land are safely cocooned in the championship racing on the night that suits them . I'm all for riding when its best for the club even if we lose commuting riders, I don't get excited by big names I get excited by good close racing but I'm almost certainly in the minority so its down the plughole we go 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 The points limit is suppose to level the playing field, yet we still see naff teams. A lot of fans walked when season after season their winning team was broken up. It also helps pull forward rider retirements. Perhaps it’s time to try a season without a points limit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamish McRaker Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 Just trying to think along different lines, which is what the original poster was asking for. As an old relic myself, this does not come easy. Many sports, or variants of them, feature elimination, whether that elimination is during the event itself, or happens over a longer period of time. Speedway GP's and Leagues have it. But to meet the challenge set us, we don't want to create a new individual competition/event, nor do we want to create another league of teams. Remember the requirement is for made for TV variant. We can still have teams. I think that's important. Just not formed into the traditional league format. So maybe look at teams of 3 or 4 riders. None of them aligned to a particular track or club. A tournament which runs throughout part or maybe even the whole season. It has progressive elimination built into the format, so that by the final event, you have maybe three four of them left. Riders are graded 1-4, and in the event of injuries, riders from teams eliminated in previous rounds can be drafted in as replacements. But no team changes otherwise allowed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruno Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 hours ago, Deano said: The points limit is suppose to level the playing field, yet we still see naff teams. A lot of fans walked when season after season their winning team was broken up. It also helps pull forward rider retirements. Perhaps it’s time to try a season without a points limit. When I suggested this I was told we would get one sided meetings but don't we get that anyway. Might not work but it's a certain fact the current system doesn't work 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 2 minutes ago, bruno said: When I suggested this I was told we would get one sided meetings but don't we get that anyway. Might not work but it's a certain fact the current system doesn't work You get plenty of one sided matches now anyway.. Might as well have a "Manchester United" who can increase crowds when they go away... Let's be realistic, you won't get a team full of superstars as that club would go bust very quickly, and crowds would drop given fans would quickly get bored with watching hammerings each week.. Make the top league truly "Elite" and run with five or six man teams so there are always replacements.. Even a six team league could work with those six having a "Second Team" to race in whatever contrived league gets cobbled together for the other teams.. 30 to 36 team places only so no issues with a rider shortage or guests needed.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uk_martin Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 Going back to the original question..."Does UK speedway need a new televised product?" It's interesting what SkySports have done with Formula1. They have a specific programme aimed at kids watching F1, possibly for the first time. It's called "F1Juniors" and it's on their Sky Showcase channel. Bearing in mind Speedway's dire need to do something to attract a younger audience, maybe this "Juniors" format is an option for the future of speedway on TV, if the feedback is generally positive? Quick disclaimer - it's NOT my cup of tea and I only watched it long enough to gain a general flavour of it, BUT IF it gets kids watching, and it's in a format that they are used to from their games consoles etc, then maybe it serves a purpose. Gotta love the innocence of the kid interviewing Nico Rosberg live whilst the race was in progress and calling him a liar to his face! If only adult interviewers had the guts to do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, iainb said: I think the GP series only works when there's more than one rider competing for the top prize, look how good the 2021 F1 season was and how dire it's been since then with the domination of Verstappen. Same goes for Speedway, pretty boring no there's no real contender to Bartek. At least back in the day of TRick's dominance he had real challenges from Gollob, Crump, Pedersen, Hamill, Hancock etc. How good would it have been to watch Nielsen & Gundersen battle it out over a GP series! It's all about jeopardy, Bartek doesn't really have any, he can miss a GP and still end up winning, a one off final adds that jeopardy, one rash move and you're toast... assuming you've even made it through the qualifying rounds. Same with the GP series, if you've got a close challenger, have a bad round and you're toast I fully agree. Two or three genuine WC prospects in the GP series would add enormously to the spectacle. I was somewhat disappointed by the comments of one respected commentator recently who reckons Emil and Artem would be allowed into the GP qualifiers next year, meaning they would not be in the series proper until 2025 at the earliest. How's that for opening the 2024 wildcard debate in August 2023? Edited August 30, 2023 by False dawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArthurRudge Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 It's all Matt Fords fault! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 5 hours ago, ruckerroo said: Speedway is literally in the same boat as the dogs, prostituting itself for tv money with zero thought for its supporters. On a previous thread i posted about no saturday track bar berwick, theres an enormous gap in the south /midlands for any track to grasp the nettle, hopefully in 2024. TV deals are all well and good but its to the detriment of the sport as a whole . The best supported club in the land are safely cocooned in the championship racing on the night that suits them . Agree. It is time that those with balls (such as IOW) break away and give the punters what they want not some contrived form of entertainment which is rarely held on days when the club can maximise the numbers through the gates and yet allows clubs to provide opportunities to a range of skill levels (second half racing for those who want to show their skills with the chance to break into the team). It currently panders to Poland and a half baked media channel with Eurosport and apart from one or two teams, meetings are held when few want to attend. Unfortunately whatever anyone says on the forum, the muppets in charge are not interested in the punter or the wider audience. You have Riders who think we all owe them a living and clubs buying their way to success with eleventh hour team changes. It is a joke and the only way is for the likes of Kent and even Plymouth and others to look again at the IOW model and any team that owns its own track should not be dictated by the BSPL and start to run the business that suits them and generates income. Vatcher and co need consigning to history if only to save the sport. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deano Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 29 minutes ago, Hawk127 said: which is rarely held on days when the club can maximise the numbers through the gates ….. It currently panders to Poland and a half baked media channel with Eurosport and apart from one or two teams, meetings are held when few want to attend. …… I agree. I think what also needs adding to your post is other U.K. promoters dictating when a track can and can’t run. We have so few fans attending I can’t for the life of me understand why with a 60 mil plus population to tap into, tracks can be dictated to! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk127 Posted August 30, 2023 Report Share Posted August 30, 2023 13 minutes ago, Deano said: I agree. I think what also needs adding to your post is other U.K. promoters dictating when a track can and can’t run. We have so few fans attending I can’t for the life of me understand why with a 60 mil plus population to tap into, tracks can be dictated to! It is an absolute nonsense. If a business can sustain a good level of local support then let it be. Like many on here I use to visit a number of tracks each week such as Rayleigh on Saturday, then Crayford, Wimbledon, Eastbourne, Canterbury, Romford, West Ham, Rye House and Peterborough with latterly Mildenhall. In the current climate notwithstanding the lack of teams/tracks, the cost of doing it now is prohibitive and with the current attitude of call it off if it looks like a dog has weed on the track with tea spoon of moisture it is a joke. What’s wrong with saw dust and get the meeting on. Len Silver knew how to get a meeting on even if it was not possible to run the programmed league racing (one example Birmingham i think in 1969 or early 1970’s when storms and flooding yet a few riders turned up at the Weir and you had match races that Saturday night and still a decent crowd) and he knew how to promote and put on a show. Who does it today? The sports current custodians have no credibility and should take a good look at themselves as they are the ones who are going to be held accountable for speedway’s demise in this country. I hope they are proud of where they are in the history of speedway because the punters probably despise the very ground they walk on and the riders earn little respect for extracting whatever they can simply for all of us to pay for their cost of living. We do not owe them an income but I guess they think we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted September 2, 2023 Report Share Posted September 2, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 8:40 PM, Deano said: I agree. I think what also needs adding to your post is other U.K. promoters dictating when a track can and can’t run. We have so few fans attending I can’t for the life of me understand why with a 60 mil plus population to tap into, tracks can be dictated to! Opening up when your customers want you to is a no brainer isn't it? However. Fixed nights are needed to provide riders with the dual income they need, and have got used to... And to let Div 2 get access to Div 1 HL's... Works well for both parties.. Probably doesnt work well for the overall success of the sport.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldyman Posted September 2, 2023 Report Share Posted September 2, 2023 8 hours ago, mikebv said: Opening up when your customers want you to is a no brainer isn't it? However. Fixed nights are needed to provide riders with the dual income they need, and have got used to... And to let Div 2 get access to Div 1 HL's... Works well for both parties.. Probably doesnt work well for the overall success of the sport.. Fixed nights are slightly movable when it suits,,, see Leicester v Sheffield Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted September 2, 2023 Report Share Posted September 2, 2023 1 hour ago, Baldyman said: Fixed nights are slightly movable when it suits,,, see Leicester v Sheffield Fixed racenights are only to give Premiership fixtures priority with any usage of doubling up riders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy cookie returns? Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 On 8/30/2023 at 9:16 PM, Hawk127 said: It is an absolute nonsense. If a business can sustain a good level of local support then let it be. Like many on here I use to visit a number of tracks each week such as Rayleigh on Saturday, then Crayford, Wimbledon, Eastbourne, Canterbury, Romford, West Ham, Rye House and Peterborough with latterly Mildenhall. In the current climate notwithstanding the lack of teams/tracks, the cost of doing it now is prohibitive and with the current attitude of call it off if it looks like a dog has weed on the track with tea spoon of moisture it is a joke. What’s wrong with saw dust and get the meeting on. Len Silver knew how to get a meeting on even if it was not possible to run the programmed league racing (one example Birmingham i think in 1969 or early 1970’s when storms and flooding yet a few riders turned up at the Weir and you had match races that Saturday night and still a decent crowd) and he knew how to promote and put on a show. Who does it today? The sports current custodians have no credibility and should take a good look at themselves as they are the ones who are going to be held accountable for speedway’s demise in this country. I hope they are proud of where they are in the history of speedway because the punters probably despise the very ground they walk on and the riders earn little respect for extracting whatever they can simply for all of us to pay for their cost of living. We do not owe them an income but I guess they think we do. I disagree with some of what you say. The likes of Len Silver who promoted during the boom years of the 70s & 80s are part of the problem. They lacked foresight to invest in the future of the sport & the decline started on the watch of promoters like silver. The promoters at the backend of the 90s & into the 2000s certainly failed to grasp the golden ticket of sky tv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toady Posted September 3, 2023 Report Share Posted September 3, 2023 48 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said: I disagree with some of what you say. The likes of Len Silver who promoted during the boom years of the 70s & 80s are part of the problem. They lacked foresight to invest in the future of the sport & the decline started on the watch of promoters like silver. The promoters at the backend of the 90s & into the 2000s certainly failed to grasp the golden ticket of sky tv I think you do a great disservice to uncle Len who throughout his whole life lives and breathes speedway and put up his own money( and probably lost a lot of it in doing so) to keep speedway alive All I see is plenty of people moaning and whinging about the state of speedway with plenty of big ideas but none of them willing to do what the likes of Len has done 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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