Does UK speedway need a new televised product?

[Ben91]

Simple answer: no. 

Speedway people always seem to treat TV coverage as free advertising. The truth is you’re only tuning in to Speedway if you’re a Speedway fan. For this also read advertising Speedway in the Speedway Star. Preaching to the converted. 

Over the last decade the sport has gone from being on the biggest sports network to the second on a (rumoured) worse deal to now an even smaller network on a (again rumoured) even worse deal. And before anyone says it, Eurosport is behind Sky and BT (now TNT) in the pecking order in the UK. 

The sport needs to work on becoming a better product that TV stations want to cover rather than hoping someone comes along with a sack of gold to buy a load of turd with. 

[truthsayer]

11 minutes ago, Tim G said:

So what you are saying is a promoter should run an individual event that nobody would care about in the log run and lose money whilst doing it. You will have them queuing up to showcase one of these events.

Why would a tv audience be more interested in this than they are league racing?  

 

We're trying to build a product which appeals to broadcasters, which hopefully attracts sponsors who see value in the coverage. That's a revenue stream.

If the product is good, and the promoter good, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to draw a big crowd - especially if they bring in a big name GP rider to the event.

Why would a TV audience be more interested? Where do we start...

The sport is broken. It does not have the 42 riders it needs to put on three matches on a Monday night without reverting to borrowing players from other teams. This is literally under-10s football stuff.

League racing is boring. It is not credible. There's no prize at the end of the night. It just drags on and on. Made for TV means a meaningful conclusion at the end of the final race. There's no filler riders, but an equally matched competition. It's a chance to restart the sport and engage with a new audience who don't have the time to try to work out what the heck is going on.

Your sport is dead. It needs to do something. I still maintain its saviour will be developing a product for competitors rather than spectators, but one thing I am sure of is that stubbornly hanging on to league racing as the only game in town will not be the answer. The audience gets older, the competitor numbers get less and the venues go. New thinking is needed and the whole point of this thread was to open the debate about new formats for the sport - but it seems no-one's too fussed because 'we don't like that'.

Edited August 29, 2023 by truthsayer
typo

[orion]

54 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Maybe I am not making myself clear. What I'm talking about is a product for TV, for a TV audiences, not Jack and Doris who've been standing on the fourth bend for the past 60 years.

What product is that then ..Tv audiences tend to be Jack and Doris.. Saying things like league racing is boring is your opinion not fact .

Edited August 29, 2023 by orion

[mikebv]

46 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Maybe I am not making myself clear. What I'm talking about is a product for TV, for a TV audiences, not Jack and Doris who've been standing on the fourth bend for the past 60 years.

Maybe UK Ice Hockey is a model that could be followed?

Clear demarcation through the leagues...

With the top league being the one that sells the sport...

And the other division being very much a feeder league...

8 teams of "top level" riders with maybe five, or six per team..

The other league very much a second tier level with "old hands" and aspiring newcomers..

Ice Hockey has a similar minority profile like Speedway, but seems to get better crowds...

You don't need many teams to be successful but do maybe need a geographical spread to have enough of the regions knowing the sport exists relatively close by..

Run this "Elite League" on the TV and let the other league (or leagues), live off the back of it..

Less really could be more, as currently meeting after meeting of "contrived nonsense" does the sport nothing but harm...

Seven home meetings of high quality, well promoted meetings, all promoted as stand alone events, might just work...

Top four into the play offs..

To provide enough meetings, the clubs could then make up another competition without all of the top level lads, using made up septets like we currently have. But do it well away from the TV cameras and keep it within the in house streaming...

[Tim G]

8 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

We're trying to build a product which appeals to broadcasters, which hopefully attracts sponsors who see value in the coverage. That's a revenue stream.

If the product is good, and the promoter good, there's no reason why they shouldn't be able to draw a big crowd - especially if they bring in a big name GP rider to the event.

Why would a TV audience be more interested? Where do we start...

The sport is broken. It does not have the 42 riders it needs to put on three matches on a Monday night without reverting to borrowing players from other teams. This is literally under-10s football stuff.

League racing is boring. It is not credible. There's no prize at the end of the night. It just drags on and on. Made for TV means a meaningful conclusion at the end of the final race. There's no filler riders, but an equally matched competition. It's a chance to restart the sport and engage with a new audience who don't have the time to try to work out what the heck is going on.

Your sport is dead. It needs to do something. I still maintain its saviour will be developing a product for competitors rather than spectators, but one thing I am sure of is that stubbornly hanging on to league racing as the only game in town will not be the answer. The audience gets older, the competitor numbers get less and the venues go. New thinking is needed and the whole point of this thread was to open the debate about new formats for the sport - but it seems no-one's too fussed because 'we don't like that'.

Well we have a multi round individual event in Cardiff this weekend let see how many people bother going to that. The attendance is getting lower each year because people don’t seem to be so interested in individual speedway.

I think you let your hatred of team speedway cloud your judgement on this one.

Speedway will only survive at a very few tracks if it becomes more about the competitors rather than the spectators.

 

 

[truthsayer]

25 minutes ago, orion said:

What product is that then ..Tv audiences tend to be Jack and Doris.. Saying things like league racing is boring is your opinion not fact .

I don't really agree with that. Yes Jack and Doris watch Coronation Street but there is a huge audience of people who watch live sport on TV, people like myself who avidly watch Speedway Grand Prix but can't/won't go out to watch on the terraces. Middle aged blokes mainly.

TV is the showcase for the sport. It brings value to sponsors, it opens up new audiences and should have a trickle down effect if done properly. My statement that league racing is boring is indeed opinion, however the dwindling spectator numbers and closing venues are facts, as are the lack of interest outside of the sport.

Speedway needs to change a lot, starting at the bottom, but redefining the TV product is one of the quickest things it can do to delay the rot while other things are addressed. With even less venues next year there will be even less credibility to the sport. A made for TV series feels like the right thing for me. No one is saying stop the leagues, I am just suggesting what they have is not suitable outside of the anorak audience and never will be. Even diehards reckon it's crap and contrived...

[DazS]

1 hour ago, mikebv said:

Its a knockout had credibility and kudos in winning...

If UK Speedway had ran it, it would be...

"Tonight representing France is"...

"Italy"....

yes but we did have the joker.

[truthsayer]

I have no hatred of team speedway and I think it has a place, but in my opinion it is contrived and outdated in a society which is looking for more simple solutions.

Cricket is the closest example and the simplification and reinvention of the game generated massive interest. 

If the spectators are no longer going, and we are not trying to make a product for participants, the ending is inevitable.

 

5 minutes ago, Tim G said:

Well we have a multi round individual event in Cardiff this weekend let see how many people bother going to that. The attendance is getting lower each year because people don’t seem to be so interested in individual speedway.

I think you let your hatred of team speedway cloud your judgement on this one.

Speedway will only survive at a very few tracks if it becomes more about the competitors rather than the spectators.

 

 

 

[orion]

36 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

I don't really agree with that. Yes Jack and Doris watch Coronation Street but there is a huge audience of people who watch live sport on TV, people like myself who avidly watch Speedway Grand Prix but can't/won't go out to watch on the terraces. Middle aged blokes mainly.

TV is the showcase for the sport. It brings value to sponsors, it opens up new audiences and should have a trickle down effect if done properly. My statement that league racing is boring is indeed opinion, however the dwindling spectator numbers and closing venues are facts, as are the lack of interest outside of the sport.

Speedway needs to change a lot, starting at the bottom, but redefining the TV product is one of the quickest things it can do to delay the rot while other things are addressed. With even less venues next year there will be even less credibility to the sport. A made for TV series feels like the right thing for me. No one is saying stop the leagues, I am just suggesting what they have is not suitable outside of the anorak audience and never will be. Even diehards reckon it's crap and contrived...

As I said before you going on about crowds going down ..But then your answer is to bring something back that crowds never wanted to watch.  These anoraks thought your idea was crap years ago.. Tons of reasons why speedway gone sour but its has little to do with League  speedway ..

 

 

[truthsayer]

2 minutes ago, orion said:

As I said before you going on about crowds going down ..But then your answer is to bring something back that crowds never wanted to watch.  These anoraks thought your idea was crap years ago.. Tons of reasons why speedway gone sour but its has little to do with League  speedway ..

 

 

We're talking about different things here. You're talking about the legacy audience attending meetings. I am talking about an audience watching on TV.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're both wrong... but I am pretty sure there needs to be a new 'product' and if it's not individual racing, what is it? You say nothing to do with league speedway, so what? At least I'm trying!

Current league speedway has little credibility. There are not enough riders, it is contrived and a result is often a foregone conclusion. There's no trophy ceremony, big cheque or rider driving off in a new car he just won. There's no 147 or nine-dart moment. There are no heroes, just a bunch of journeymen. A national audience doesn't care about Poole, or King's Lynn, or Peterborough or any other provincial town team. Genuinely, they might be your team but the world don't care.

Speedway can take many formats: amateur racing where competitors pay, carnie racing, like WWE, bangers and pantomine, with goodies and baddies playing to an audience looking for a fun night out, pairs, team racing and serious individual meetings which are (in my opinion) the purest form of motorsports.

But the stubborn insistence that team racing is the only way will be the death of the sport in the UK. It's not a pro sport and can't sustain itself on gate revenue.

[SteveLyric2]

Are Eurosport unhappy with theirBritish League coverage and audience? They already have the SGP format, why would a similar British,Individual tournament fare better and generate more viewers and a different audience?

Comparisons with Ice Hockey could be irrelevant as far as TV audiences are concerned, aside from the fact that you're comparing an indoor sport with an outdoor one and does ice hockey get any better media coverage than speedway in the general populas?

[Deano]

Could there be something based the way formula one works. Say sixteen riders, two per team. Each team races a machine made and tuned by a different pit crew. Maybe have a round at each track in the U.K. 

[truthsayer]

7 minutes ago, Skidder1 said:

Are Eurosport unhappy with theirBritish League coverage and audience? They already have the SGP format, why would a similar British,Individual tournament fare better and generate more viewers and a different audience?

Interesting.

Eurosport have world superbikes and British superbikes.

As far as I am aware, British superbikes is more popular. A big part of the reason is that it is more accessible. The riders are on the large part more accessible and they can go along to races once or twice a year.

Eurosport don't need to attract a different audience, the same one will do. Difference between world championships is that the images can be broadcast in more regions but I got to admit I think British speedway feels a bit out of place in their portfolio.

[orion]

2 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

We're talking about different things here. You're talking about the legacy audience attending meetings. I am talking about an audience watching on TV.

Maybe you are right, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're both wrong... but I am pretty sure there needs to be a new 'product' and if it's not individual racing, what is it? You say nothing to do with league speedway, so what? At least I'm trying!

Current league speedway has little credibility. There are not enough riders, it is contrived and a result is often a foregone conclusion. There's no trophy ceremony, big cheque or rider driving off in a new car he just won. There's no 147 or nine-dart moment. There are no heroes, just a bunch of journeymen. A national audience doesn't care about Poole, or King's Lynn, or Peterborough or any other provincial town team. Genuinely, they might be your team but the world don't care.

Speedway can take many formats: amateur racing where competitors pay, carnie racing, like WWE, bangers and pantomine, with goodies and baddies playing to an audience looking for a fun night out, pairs, team racing and serious individual meetings which are (in my opinion) the purest form of motorsports.

But the stubborn insistence that team racing is the only way will be the death of the sport in the UK. It's not a pro sport and can't sustain itself on gate revenue.

What team sport has a trophy etc after every  match etc.. Does Football the popular sport in  world ? Of course not its not how team sport works.. Poland is  packed with fans watching league racing with big tv rateings . I could find about 20 examples..Speedway in the uk is in trouble because its been poorly ran and terrible choices it's taken over a number of years. .

[Falcon1983]

No point pitching new ideas on a forum, many fans blame riders or the promoters for ruining the sport but most aren't open to new ideas themselves, all have some part of the blame for how poor the sport is now and will be in the future 

[noaksey]

1 hour ago, Skidder1 said:

Are Eurosport unhappy with theirBritish League coverage and audience? They already have the SGP format, why would a similar British,Individual tournament fare better and generate more viewers and a different audience?

Comparisons with Ice Hockey could be irrelevant as far as TV audiences are concerned, aside from the fact that you're comparing an indoor sport with an outdoor one and does ice hockey get any better media coverage than speedway in the general populas?

I've absolutely no idea but I'd personally be surprised if Eurosport would be interested in renewing the domestic TV contract when it expires, when is that?

This seasons coverage seems to have consisted of the bare minimum with costs having been cut.

Edited August 29, 2023 by noaksey

[Baldyman]

You are wasting your time with ideas,,,, most people on here or any speedway page can't see past the end of their nose,,,to set in their ways,,,,,, I've been sitting in this spot for 60 years,,, you know the type 

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, orion said:

What team sport has a trophy etc after every  match etc.. Does Football the popular sport in  world ? Of course not its not how team sport works.. Poland is  packed with fans watching league racing with big tv rateings . I could find about 20 examples..Speedway in the uk is in trouble because its been poorly ran and terrible choices it's taken over a number of years. .

In addition to what you have said, even the Poles don’t support individual events other than the main Polish Championship.

Anything that isnt their team they aren’t interested. I watched one of the events at Poznan earlier this year and Buxton probably got bigger crowds than that one.

[mikebv]

Test Matches might get some interest..?

When Speedway was in its halcyon period the success of the 'England" team and iders were the reason so many attended domestic Speedway. .

Hardly any domestic Speedway was shown but fans knew of the sport via what they watched on TV on Saturdays... 

Individual meetings and WTC..

The RFU and ECB grew their domestic sport by centralised contracts ensuring that the top players prioritised the national team. 

They knew that whatever success Leicester, Saracens, Lancashire and Yorkshire cricket etc etc etc had, it would have little impact overall, and not grow the sport...  

Maybe an "elite" Test Match series could help generate domestic interest the same for Speedway? 

It could definitely get more wider media coverage, and maybe a decent sponsor.?  

Bomber couldn't represent Australia or Poland though if he didn't get picked for GB. 

GB v Poland at the NSS, Poole and Glasgow for example, would deliver the best crowds in years I would suggest, and paint the sport in a very positive light via the TV. ..

 

 

[cowboy cookie returns?]

The biggest issue with league speedway is the way it’s ran. The operating model isn’t fit for purpose & is massively contrived.

The issues stem from years of poor management & no real desire to grow the product. 

The golden ticket was during the first sky contract, a tv partner who wanted to invest & paid a very good sum for the broadcast rights. That came at a time when the majority of the worlds best still rode here & the gp came to Cardiff. I still remember Mark Loram being featured on the back page of the sun newspaper on a Saturday.

But instead of investing the promoters at the time spent the money on propping up what they had been doing for years,

With no hope of a return on the investment or  any signs of progress the money Sky have slowly declined until they binned it of altogether.

To have a meaningful league structure that allows emotional buy in guesting & doubling has to stop & it has to be ran properly. Now that’s where the issue is it’s now to late to save not enough venues not enough riders & far to few spectators.