SteveLyric2 Posted August 16, 2023 Report Share Posted August 16, 2023 2 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Run the Championship at a really low limit 35/36? To encourage them to step up. Champ clubs run with 2 heat leaders, 2 second strings & 3 NL riders? Championship teams out vote the Prem teams by number. No way will they 'go up' if Mon/thurs are still fixed race nights. And why should they weaken their product to suit the whims of a few so-called senior clubs? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted August 16, 2023 Report Share Posted August 16, 2023 20 minutes ago, Najjer said: out of interest, is Palm Toft back riding? Yes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted August 16, 2023 Report Share Posted August 16, 2023 26 minutes ago, Skidder1 said: Championship teams out vote the Prem teams by number. No way will they 'go up' if Mon/thurs are still fixed race nights. And why should they weaken their product to suit the whims of a few so-called senior clubs? …..and this one post right here, is why British Speedway as a whole is failing and will never change. Shame really. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 16, 2023 Report Share Posted August 16, 2023 3 minutes ago, Najjer said: …..and this one post right here, is why British Speedway as a whole is failing and will never change. Shame really. Tail wagging the dog... Cannot ever move forward with that in place... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WembleyLion Posted August 16, 2023 Report Share Posted August 16, 2023 (edited) Assuming R/R for Klindt I can’t see this has been called off because KL could not get a guest for Thomas Jorgensen. There are plenty of possibilities to choose from all capable of taking points off Rew, Hume and a RS which is pretty much all TJ might have reasonably been expected to do against the Witches. So the problem must be elsewhere in the team? I wonder where? Edited August 16, 2023 by WembleyLion 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 New date 4th September,is that after the old cut off date but before the new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarBoy Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, tellboy said: New date 4th September,is that after the old cut off date but before the new one. It's before the new one. Ipswich have been assured this fixture will completed before the play offs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tellboy Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, StarBoy said: It's before the new one. Ipswich have been assured this fixture will completed before the play offs Why was the old cut off moved,wasn't to suit certain clubs was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 7 hours ago, Najjer said: …..and this one post right here, is why British Speedway as a whole is failing and will never change. Shame really. 7 hours ago, mikebv said: Tail wagging the dog... Cannot ever move forward with that in place... Yep, 'us and them'. I strongly suspect skidder et al didn't give a toss about the second division when they weren't in it. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo95 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 10 hours ago, bruno said: Main problem is trying to run a sport totally reliant on a guest system then schedule ,6 of the 7 teams to ride on the same night. Guess what there's no guests available. Who'd have thought eh There wouldn't have been 6 of the 7 teams riding if there wasn't as many rain offs or pit gate problems etc. Cannot blame the schedulers for the problem. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RS50 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 There have been precedents for fielding teams when suitable guests not available. On one occasion in 2017, Sheffield had four unavailable riders, and the only guest, of any reasonable standard available was Lewis Kerr. Blair Smith and Kev Whelan, made up the team, but failed to score. And what an amazing outcome. Despite the weakened team, Sheffield came back from 12 down to win by 5. Maybe Kings Lynn gave up too easily. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Bagpuss said: Yep, 'us and them'. I strongly suspect skidder et al didn't give a toss about the second division when they weren't in it. A perfect scenario for Div 2 Promoters.. Getting to use Div HL's and not having to have two developing UK riders at six and seven.. The long term failure that they cannot see though is the obviously ageing demographic of the Div 1 HL's that they use.. When they go, who replaces them? Hopefully next season we have one "Elite League" which has the top riders in it, and a Champ/NDL alamgam with each team having one Div 1 HL each and two RS's of a similar standard to the Current Div 3 HL's and SS's.. To sell any sport, you need demarcation between the top league and the rest, which then provides relevance to the top league and kudos in winning.. Plus it provides a clear development pathway for lower league clubs to aspire to and grow their clubs, which then organically grows the sport.. When you can pick and choose what league to ride in, and can "relegate yourself", whenever you feel like it, then getting punters to take either league seriously will be a real challenge.. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 7 minutes ago, mikebv said: A perfect scenario for Div 2 Promoters.. Getting to use Div HL's and not having to have two developing UK riders at six and seven.. The long term failure that they cannot see though is the obviously ageing demographic of the Div 1 HL's that they use.. When they go, who replaces them? Hopefully next season we have one "Elite League" which has the top riders in it, and a Champ/NDL alamgam with each team having one Div 1 HL each and two RS's of a similar standard to the Current Div 3 HL's and SS's.. To sell any sport, you need demarcation between the top league and the rest, which then provides relevance to the top league and kudos in winning.. Plus it provides a clear development pathway for lower league clubs to aspire to and grow their clubs, which then organically grows the sport.. When you can pick and choose what league to ride in, and can "relegate yourself", whenever you feel like it, then getting punters to take either league seriously will be a real challenge.. All very laudible ideals, but first and foremost clubs need to be financially stable at whatever level best meets their budget and whichever raceday suits their catchment area. No good having an 'elite' league of say 5 or 6 clubs who then can't sustain that level for more than a season due to finances and/or lots of defeats. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Gambo95 said: There wouldn't have been 6 of the 7 teams riding if there wasn't as many rain offs or pit gate problems etc. Cannot blame the schedulers for the problem. 5 months = 22 weeks. So 44 race days. 7 teams x 12 matches = 84 fixtures Of these 8 are taken up by British Final, Pairs, KO Cup and World Cup week. That leaves 36 available dates. At 2 matches per night that's 72 matches. Still leaves 12 further matches to be scheduled. [A few of those can be squeezed into bank hols or world cup week involving teams without 'world cup tied' riders] ...but there were always going to some dates with 6 teams racing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 1 hour ago, Skidder1 said: All very laudible ideals, but first and foremost clubs need to be financially stable at whatever level best meets their budget and whichever raceday suits their catchment area. No good having an 'elite' league of say 5 or 6 clubs who then can't sustain that level for more than a season due to finances and/or lots of defeats. 100% agree.. So... Stop the race to the bottom.. Have some kind of salary cap control.. "Saving the promoters from themselves" should be a role profile for someone... Riders may demand "Elton John Money", but when you only get a " Chesney Hawkes" following you need to be realistic... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveLyric2 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 6 minutes ago, mikebv said: 100% agree.. So... Stop the race to the bottom.. Have some kind of salary cap control.. "Saving the promoters from themselves" should be a role profile for someone... Riders may demand "Elton John Money", but when you only get a " Chesney Hawkes" following you need to be realistic... ..and that is why I believe there is currently far more realism at Championship level. Even one league at Championship level with team formats/structure to suit 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 I believe the new date of September 4th also sees 6 of the 7 teams in action so what’s going to change ? klint and Jorgensen obviously won’t be back 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 2 hours ago, RS50 said: There have been precedents for fielding teams when suitable guests not available. On one occasion in 2017, Sheffield had four unavailable riders, and the only guest, of any reasonable standard available was Lewis Kerr. Blair Smith and Kev Whelan, made up the team, but failed to score. And what an amazing outcome. Despite the weakened team, Sheffield came back from 12 down to win by 5. Maybe Kings Lynn gave up too easily. Hasn't someone got fined for fielding a "weakened team" who actually won? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mimmo Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 5 minutes ago, Racin Jason 72 said: I believe the new date of September 4th also sees 6 of the 7 teams in action so what’s going to change ? klint and Jorgensen obviously won’t be back It does Jason. Peterborough & King's Lynn, 45-minutes apart, are both racing at home on the same night. Poor crowds at both venues that night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racin Jason 72 Posted August 17, 2023 Report Share Posted August 17, 2023 I can’t believe this meeting was postponed because of two missing riders. If laguta was going to be missing I could understand missing your top two would be very difficult to cover. But kings lynn haven’t actually said who apart from the obvious absentees would be missing. a little transparency would stop a lot of bad feeling. Many Ipswich fans attended two weeks ago. I wonder how many will not attend the restaging in protest. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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