FAST GATER Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 2 hours ago, MattB said: Barring injury/someone stepping up/Zmarzlik's standards dropping you can certainly see him roaring past Mauger and Rickardsson, though they had tougher opposition. Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 24 minutes ago, FAST GATER said: Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . He's certainly matured quicker. I notice he's broken the record for the youngest rider to win 4 titles. Just by comparison. Greg Hancock 44 Hans Nielsen 35 Ivan Mauger 33 Barry Briggs 31 Tony Rickardsson 31 Ove Fundin 30 Bartosz Zmarzlik 28 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, FAST GATER said: Having watched the sport for many years I think that the standard of riders across the sport particularly in Poland are as good as they ever were .IMO Bart is just so much better than the rest plus he has matured and is consistent which is crucial in winning world titles on a regular basics . Would agree he has matured a lot and the scoring system plays to his strengths makes most Semi Finals with ease then steps up a level. Edited October 1, 2023 by Fromafar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepturningleft Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 So, BZ wins his 4th title at the age of 28. At the age of 28, Ivan Mauger won his first title! The mind boggle as to what BZ could achieve in the coming years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chunky Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 6 hours ago, MattB said: He's certainly matured quicker. I notice he's broken the record for the youngest rider to win 4 titles. Just by comparison. Greg Hancock 44 Hans Nielsen 35 Ivan Mauger 33 Barry Briggs 31 Tony Rickardsson 31 Ove Fundin 30 Bartosz Zmarzlik 28 Remember, Bartek is actually younger than Ivan was when he won his first! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted October 1, 2023 Report Share Posted October 1, 2023 40 minutes ago, chunky said: Remember, Bartek is actually younger than Ivan was when he won his first! Only injury will stop him getting those seven titles IMO ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 10 hours ago, Fromafar said: Would agree he has matured a lot and the scoring system plays to his strengths makes most Semi Finals with ease then steps up a level. Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. Like you say that’s the difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grachan Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 4 minutes ago, mikebv said: Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. I agree that Holder looks the most likely to emerge from the pack as the main challenger. Bewley has it in him though. He has so much natural ability, but you can actually see him stiffen on the bike whenever there is a bit of tight racing and he inevitably ends up behind everyone. He can overcome that, though. Needs a good mentor in his corner, perhaps, to get him to the next level. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 26 minutes ago, mikebv said: Robert maybe less so, but Dan definitely, doesnt mix it anywhere close to the way both Zmarzlik and Lindgren do... That is why they consistently end up at the "sharp edge" of the meeting.. Jack Holder of the "young brigade" seems to be the one who isnt bullied by "close to the edge" racing and doesnt get intimidated when racing with Zmarzlik at close quarters like many do.. Fricke, for the first time, showed he can mix it when getting "Bartek Speared" on that 3rd turn, lap one, "nailing" that he does so often, so maybe that will give him greater confidence in being tougher generally going forward.. So many points that the likes of Zmarzlik, Lindgren and Doyle in particular score are down to simply 100% commitment to a gap that may, or may not, be there... Holder is definitely nearer those three now in his riding, and could be Zmarzliks biggest threat over the next few years.. Would agree regarding Holder.Fricke is frustrating he definitely has the skills but just goes missing at times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 19 minutes ago, Grachan said: I agree that Holder looks the most likely to emerge from the pack as the main challenger. Bewley has it in him though. He has so much natural ability, but you can actually see him stiffen on the bike whenever there is a bit of tight racing and he inevitably ends up behind everyone. He can overcome that, though. Needs a good mentor in his corner, perhaps, to get him to the next level. Agree. There are a lot of contenders who are really on the downward curve of their career....Doyle and Lindgren are in that pack, Woffinden too. Zmarzlik could get to 8 or 9 titles in the coming years unless Holder or Bewley step up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 16 minutes ago, fatface said: Agree. There are a lot of contenders who are really on the downward curve of their career....Doyle and Lindgren are in that pack, Woffinden too. Zmarzlik could get to 8 or 9 titles in the coming years unless Holder or Bewley step up. Did you say Lindgren? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 9 minutes ago, Bojangles said: Did you say Lindgren? Yes. As well as he has done and as good as he is, he is not going to get any better and is not going to get the better of Zmarzlik. That's obvious enough by now isn't it? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bojangles Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 6 minutes ago, fatface said: Yes. As well as he has done and as good as he is, he is not going to get any better and is not going to get the better of Zmarzlik. That's obvious enough by now isn't it? Well, he arguably got better this year. It was his highest ever finishing position, so it's a bit harsh to say he's on a 'downward curve of his career'. Just because Lindgren can't be Zmarzlik across a season, it doesn't mean he's starting to regress. A lot of people are looking for riders to beat Zmarzlik, but the fact is there aren't any. Dominance happens in many sports, just have to accept it....one day someone will come along and end the reign, and it can come from anywhere. I remember Miguel Indurain dominating the Tour de France, he was so much better than everyone else and looked unbeatable for many years - then suddenly out of nowhere Bjarne Riis arrived in 1996. Edited October 2, 2023 by Bojangles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. Another interesting stat would be what order of gate picks the 4 named riders had in those 33 semi’s ? Edited October 2, 2023 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockster Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 You earn the gate picks. So if Freddie and Bartosz have first picks, they earned them. Not sure that is the case though for Freddie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattB Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 14 hours ago, chunky said: Remember, Bartek is actually younger than Ivan was when he won his first! Would have been fascinating to hear the great man's opinion on Bartek. I always felt he was quite dismissive of TR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatface Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 1 hour ago, MattB said: Would have been fascinating to hear the great man's opinion on Bartek. I always felt he was quite dismissive of TR. Yes, that's true. He really didn't seem to enjoy someone else winning six titles too and couldn't resist undermining the GP system. Then again, being at the very top level in most sports requires a certain level of ego and unwavering self-esteem. It's a big part of what made Mauger who he was. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waiheke1 Posted October 2, 2023 Report Share Posted October 2, 2023 8 hours ago, arnieg said: Bartosz and Freddie 18 semis - 16 finals reached Dan and Robert - 15 semis - 4 finals That's where it is won and lost. It's also why I think Dan and Robert are probably going to be the closest rivals to Zmarzlik in the coming years. Just need to be a little tougher, and mentally stranger in the crunch heats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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