crescent girl Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 Certainly a disappointment for those of us looking towards a brighter future for Team GB that Tom Brennan and Leon Flint aren't there. Some of the averages used to place others (Troy being an obvious example) are a bit hooky, to say the least.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 31 minutes ago, crescent girl said: Certainly a disappointment for those of us looking towards a brighter future for Team GB that Tom Brennan and Leon Flint aren't there. Some of the averages used to place others (Troy being an obvious example) are a bit hooky, to say the least.......... Apart from Batch due to lack of matches,don’t really see any other “hooky”riders.IMO 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wee Eck Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 6 hours ago, HGould said: Indeed. There in lies the root cause. Doubling up or factually down to create income post the Sky money glut of 20 years ago. That money dwindled so double down created a false fake paradise as a generation matured. If you create a system then you can't blame those who exploit it. Speedway has to go 2 tier being as close as it can to professional full time and semi professional part time. Accepting that it's an 8 month season in Europe to deliver for the full time or a 6 month season in UK to deliver for the part time. No doubling up must be enforced other than age limited to say 23 or 24. Strict pay rules. If doubling up is done away with, two things will happen - there won’t be enough riders to go round and riders will ride more in Europe to make up their wages. They’ll still be “doubling up” (or down) just not in UK. The lower league has always been a home for older riders still capable but past their best. Just think of those that have graced it like Zorro, Shane Parker, George Stancl, Freddie Schott, Havvy, Carl Stonehewer, Joe Screen for starters. And there’s loads more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 (edited) 7 hours ago, HGould said: Indeed. There in lies the root cause. Doubling up or factually down to create income post the Sky money glut of 20 years ago. That money dwindled so double down created a false fake paradise as a generation matured. If you create a system then you can't blame those who exploit it. Speedway has to go 2 tier being as close as it can to professional full time and semi professional part time. Accepting that it's an 8 month season in Europe to deliver for the full time or a 6 month season in UK to deliver for the part time. No doubling up must be enforced other than age limited to say 23 or 24. Strict pay rules. The 2nd tier promoters have got used to Div 1 HL's so not much chance of DUing ending... And the riders have got used to the earning opportunities*... (* Other than one big league stopping it).. The middle tier should have two RS per team, one and NDL HL level rider, and one an NDL SS or reserve... Its role should be a stepping stone from Div 3 to Div 1, not a league where the vast majority of riders are fully pro... Edited August 8, 2023 by mikebv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 3 hours ago, mikebv said: The 2nd tier promoters have got used to Div 1 HL's so not much chance of DUing ending... And the riders have got used to the earning opportunities*... (* Other than one big league stopping it).. The middle tier should have two RS per team, one and NDL HL level rider, and one an NDL SS or reserve... Its role should be a stepping stone from Div 3 to Div 1, not a league where the vast majority of riders are fully pro... There shouldn’t be a middle tier full stop. Most of these Championship teams can afford Premiership riders (hence this line up featuring 13 Premiership riders) so teams should be able to compete either at Premiership or National League standard. The Championship is the big problem for British Speedway with doubling up getting out of control. Premiership and National League with 6 rider teams is the way to go. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted August 8, 2023 Report Share Posted August 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Najjer said: There shouldn’t be a middle tier full stop. Most of these Championship teams can afford Premiership riders (hence this line up featuring 13 Premiership riders) so teams should be able to compete either at Premiership or National League standard. The Championship is the big problem for British Speedway with doubling up getting out of control. Premiership and National League with 6 rider teams is the way to go. Couldn't disagree more. Prem can't attract the best riders, so guys who'd never have been HLs in the past now are because the strength of that league. Powers that be even watered down the level in champ this season, name one rider that doubled up last year that hasn't this? All did was cause the 4.5-6 riders missed out. Champ wasn't the issue when was elite league and best riders were there. Again champ fixtures are getting fewer and fewer hence riders need to double up to make money. 2 home and away would have plenty meetings no need to double up as much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allthegearbutnaeidea Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 You just have to go back 10-20 years, and look at the strength of both the leagues, Championship has tried to maintain its strength, albeit not quite as strong, Premiership has fallen off a cliff due to the Sky payments ending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 2 hours ago, allthegearbutnaeidea said: You just have to go back 10-20 years, and look at the strength of both the leagues, Championship has tried to maintain its strength, albeit not quite as strong, Premiership has fallen off a cliff due to the Sky payments ending. But that isn’t relevant to where we are now. The speedway world has changed dramatically during that time with Polish and Grand Prix finances so that most top riders don’t need UK, Swedish or Danish league racing to earn their living anymore. I’ve explained numerous times that there isn’t enough riders around to spread across all teams for one big league - hence the need to run at Premiership standard (essentially the majority of Championship riders with some of the top riders and Polish league riders too) with 6 man teams. Ride everybody twice so there is plenty of matches along with extra rides for riders per meeting with less travelling expenses involved. The one thing British Speedway should not be doing (or you could argue shouldn’t have done) is set itself up to earn riders a living. That is the complete wrong attitude! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 12 hours ago, Najjer said: There shouldn’t be a middle tier full stop. Most of these Championship teams can afford Premiership riders (hence this line up featuring 13 Premiership riders) so teams should be able to compete either at Premiership or National League standard. The Championship is the big problem for British Speedway with doubling up getting out of control. Premiership and National League with 6 rider teams is the way to go. I disagree. Doubling up started off around 20 years ago when Elite League clubs could use two Premier League riders to share one position. Premier League riders never missed any meetings for their PL club, unless of course they were injured or riding overseas. They then brought in doubling down where two EL riders could share a position in a PL club and its just turned farcical ever since. Ever since those days, the crowd has dropped off alarmingly at most tracks if they are still operating. Look back to 2002/3 ish times on the forum on the archives and see if there is anywhere near as much bitching and moaning about riders being missing as there are now. If a rider missed a meeting back then it was the talk of the month on the forum, now its happening everywhere every week. It is sad to say but the sport in the UK is dying on its knees. Incompetent people running the sport, spineless promoters who refuse to bring their club into the 21st century, riders taking the complete p155. We say it every season but the sport needs a complete revamp in the UK. And also, referring to another poster, the standard of top flight speedway had fallen off a cliff long before the Sky payments ended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 27 minutes ago, Pinny said: I disagree. Doubling up started off around 20 years ago when Elite League clubs could use two Premier League riders to share one position. Premier League riders never missed any meetings for their PL club, unless of course they were injured or riding overseas. They then brought in doubling down where two EL riders could share a position in a PL club and its just turned farcical ever since. Ever since those days, the crowd has dropped off alarmingly at most tracks if they are still operating. Look back to 2002/3 ish times on the forum on the archives and see if there is anywhere near as much bitching and moaning about riders being missing as there are now. If a rider missed a meeting back then it was the talk of the month on the forum, now its happening everywhere every week. It is sad to say but the sport in the UK is dying on its knees. Incompetent people running the sport, spineless promoters who refuse to bring their club into the 21st century, riders taking the complete p155. We say it every season but the sport needs a complete revamp in the UK. And also, referring to another poster, the standard of top flight speedway had fallen off a cliff long before the Sky payments ended. Doubling up in its current guise didn’t start 20 years ago though - there was many more riders back then and the situation was more than under control. The current problem has only really come to light in much more recent years completely ruining teams identities and team speedway in the UK in the process. The Poles allowed doubling up for the first time during the covid year and they absolutely hated it, thought it was a mockery and soon abolished it as a nonsense at the time. The sooner UK speedway does the same, the better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Najjer said: Doubling up in its current guise didn’t start 20 years ago though - there was many more riders back then and the situation was more than under control. The current problem has only really come to light in much more recent years completely ruining teams identities and team speedway in the UK in the process. The Poles allowed doubling up for the first time during the covid year and they absolutely hated it, thought it was a mockery and soon abolished it as a nonsense at the time. The sooner UK speedway does the same, the better. Cant argue with that. one league with a new 5 rider format maybe the way to go . 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pinny said: Cant argue with that. one league with a new 5 rider format maybe the way to go . I wouldn’t be opposed to that either - with no guests then. The Danes make that work and there is no reason why we cant Edited August 9, 2023 by Najjer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 I’m off on a tangent here, apologies. There isn’t a lack of riders. There is a lack of riders of the standard the sport tries to run at in Britain. The doubling up free for all has only magnified that and made it worse over the last decade or so. The rules are to blame. As it is, there are likely to be a fair few less teams running next season. That means one league should be put in place eradicating the bad type of doubling up (between Premiership and Championship). Smaller teams are not the answer. It would result in a similar over saturation of the same riders as all this doubling up has. We also have to find a system that removes guests from the sport here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 9, 2023 Report Share Posted August 9, 2023 3 hours ago, Ben91 said: I’m off on a tangent here, apologies. There isn’t a lack of riders. There is a lack of riders of the standard the sport tries to run at in Britain. The doubling up free for all has only magnified that and made it worse over the last decade or so. The rules are to blame. As it is, there are likely to be a fair few less teams running next season. That means one league should be put in place eradicating the bad type of doubling up (between Premiership and Championship). Smaller teams are not the answer. It would result in a similar over saturation of the same riders as all this doubling up has. We also have to find a system that removes guests from the sport here. Pipe dream... The sport is a hobby for most promoters and, off the back of that, set up solely for most riders to race as much as they can so they can be "professional"... That won't change, because it cannot.. Riders won't suddenly ride for less and guesting is a "nice little earner" as once described to me by a lad who did a fair few.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaizer Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 I remember when CLRC was the highlight of the season..looked forward to the trip to Sheffield every year. This revised lineup it's almost like why bother. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DazS Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 gone the same way as the BLRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 (edited) On 8/9/2023 at 11:34 AM, Najjer said: Doubling up in its current guise didn’t start 20 years ago though - there was many more riders back then and the situation was more than under control. The current problem has only really come to light in much more recent years completely ruining teams identities and team speedway in the UK in the process. The Poles allowed doubling up for the first time during the covid year and they absolutely hated it, thought it was a mockery and soon abolished it as a nonsense at the time. The sooner UK speedway does the same, the better. The riders who DU need the money and, having done it for many years now, will be used to it... One Big League maybe would offer enough meetings to cover how many they have now, but would all clubs want to run so many? If you are losing money running 12 matches, why run 24? As that would double your losses!! A corner self painted into, and not sure if they can ever get out of it... Unless of course they all compromise and agree that for the vast majority of riders, being fully pro is not possible given the numbers paying to watch it.. And the Promoters then have to accept that a lower (but affordable) standard could be the only option.. (Fans too)... Edited August 24, 2023 by mikebv 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben91 Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 1 minute ago, mikebv said: The riders who DU need the money and, having done it for many years now, will be used to it... One Big League maybe would offer enough meetings to cover how many they have now, but would all clubs want to run so many? If you are losing money running 12 matches, why run 24? As that would double your losses!! A corner self painted into, and not sure if they can ever get out of it... Unless of course they all compromise and agree that for the vast majority of riders, being fully pro is not possible given the numbers paying to watch it.. And the Promoters then have to accept that a lower (but affordable) standard could be the only option.. Time for riders to double up with outside jobs rather than with two clubs. Doubling up is bad for the sport, good for the riders. Things should be done for the good of the sport. In most other motorsports only the very elite competitors are lucky enough to race as their full time profession. Most speedway riders seem to expect a full time living from the sport even if they’re second tier, second string plodders or worse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigred Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 49 minutes ago, Ben91 said: Time for riders to double up with outside jobs rather than with two clubs. Doubling up is bad for the sport, good for the riders. Things should be done for the good of the sport. In most other motorsports only the very elite competitors are lucky enough to race as their full time profession. Most speedway riders seem to expect a full time living from the sport even if they’re second tier, second string plodders or worse. Try getting a job that gives a rider the time off to ride speedway,make it a weekend sport is another answer,especially for the lower league which the kids have to rely on there parents to get time off work. gb speedway needs a huge shake up,it has done for years.until that happens it will only get worse not better . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevePark Posted August 24, 2023 Report Share Posted August 24, 2023 New line-up announced (on BSPL website): THE revised line-up for the Championship League Riders’ Championship, which takes place at Redcar on Sunday (5pm), has been published. Alterations have been made to the original line-up due to recent injuries and re-arranged fixtures in Poland on the same day. All nine Cab Direct Championship clubs are still represented with a host of top heat-leaders contesting the major event at the ECCO Arena. The line-up is as follows: 1 Rory Schlein (Berwick) 2 Justin Sedgmen (Birmingham) 3 Troy Batchelor (Birmingham) 4 Scott Nicholls (Oxford) 5 Richard Lawson (Poole) 6 Richie Worrall (Plymouth) 7 Kyle Howarth (Plymouth) 8 Lewis Kerr (Oxford) 9 Charles Wright (Redcar) 10 Ryan Douglas (Scunthorpe) 11 Craig Cook (Edinburgh) 12 Ben Cook (Poole) 13 Chris Harris (Glasgow) 14 Jake Allen (Scunthorpe) 15 Danny King (Redcar) 16 Leon Flint (Berwick) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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