Ipswich v Belle Vue 13th July

[stu219]

2 hours ago, GeneralMelchett said:

He had a good start 3,2 then after the rain couldn’t gate and seemed to lose ground badly getting 1,0 - if ever there was a meeting of two halves - that was it. He was twice beaten in 1-5s by Tom Brennan and his race partner - I am sure Danny would be the first to admit he should have been better placed in those races. 
 

on a brighter note the wetter conditions really seemed to suit Dan Thompson and was great to see him get some points regardless of how you see his inclusion in the side! 

Unfortunately it’s becoming a theme with Danny is that he  goes missing in the really crucial heats. It has been going on now for a year or two. 

[Baldyman]

He's a lovely bloke though,,, 

[RoundTheBoards]

3 hours ago, arnieg said:

No you have only included Premiership matches, King has also ridden in 3 Cup matches

That's because cup matches don't count.   Lidsey and Wright couldn't ride in 3 cup matches.

Lidsey is the best 3rd heat leader, and BV No.4 Wright is higher than King.

 

[arnieg]

6 minutes ago, RoundTheBoards said:

That's because cup matches don't count.   Lidsey and Wright couldn't ride in 3 cup matches.

Lidsey is the best 3rd heat leader, and BV No.4 Wright is higher than King.

 

I clearly stated that I was including all OFFICIAL fixtures. Of course they count, I never claimed to be restricting my analysis just to matches counting for GSA. 

General rule of statistics, the more data you use the better. I have simply used more of the available data.

Edited July 14, 2023 by arnieg

[Roger Jacobs]

2 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

https://ipswichwitches.co/raceday-report-ipswich-44-46-belle-vue-sports-insure-premiership-r2-h/
interesting that it’s Louis & not Hawkins offering his thoughts on last night.

Hawkins has proved time and again he isn't capable of offering thoughts.

[Roger Jacobs]

4 hours ago, GeneralMelchett said:

He had a good start 3,2 then after the rain couldn’t gate and seemed to lose ground badly getting 1,0 - if ever there was a meeting of two halves - that was it. He was twice beaten in 1-5s by Tom Brennan and his race partner - I am sure Danny would be the first to admit he should have been better placed in those races. 

King had a good start with a 3.  No one can claim that his second ride was good - it was not good being beaten so easily on his home track by Blodorn.

[Hawk127]

Will the promoter arrange other meetings given the likely early finish to the season or simply call it a day and hopefully come back in 2024. Sad really when you think back a few years and look at how weekly speedway was almost the norm from March to October and we would turn up at Foxhall and be entertained by the likes of Mark Loram, Chris Louis, Scott Nicholls, Robert Miskowiak, etc.. Now all you have is a pale shadow of what was once a good nights entertainment. I am glad I saw the sport through the 60’s to the 2000’s and have witnessed entertainment, memorable moments and some decent on track racing where riders gave it everything notwithstanding the conditions and you appreciated the effort. Now the riders do not give a fig about the supporters and believe the paying punter owes them a living and you have certain people managing teams where you would get more inspiration from paint drying. Hopefully we will get to see a 16 Lapper if nothing else.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

21 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

Will the promoter arrange other meetings given the likely early finish to the season or simply call it a day and hopefully come back in 2024. Sad really when you think back a few years and look at how weekly speedway was almost the norm from March to October and we would turn up at Foxhall and be entertained by the likes of Mark Loram, Chris Louis, Scott Nicholls, Robert Miskowiak, etc.. Now all you have is a pale shadow of what was once a good nights entertainment. I am glad I saw the sport through the 60’s to the 2000’s and have witnessed entertainment, memorable moments and some decent on track racing where riders gave it everything notwithstanding the conditions and you appreciated the effort. Now the riders do not give a fig about the supporters and believe the paying punter owes them a living and you have certain people managing teams where you would get more inspiration from paint drying. Hopefully we will get to see a 16 Lapper if nothing else.

How we could do with Nicholls in the team right now

[kevin bass]

5 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

How we could do with Nicholls in the team right now

Agree entirely with that but sadly never gonna happen, what are the actual issues between Nicholls and Ipswich, heard numberous times he'd never ride for them again whenever his name was mentioned over the last few seasons.

[cowboy cookie returns?]

Just now, kevin bass said:

Agree entirely with that but sadly never gonna happen, what are the actual issues between Nicholls and Ipswich, heard numberous times he'd never ride for them again whenever his name was mentioned over the last few seasons.

No idea to be honest but it’s a shame. I suspect different reasons to those why Rowe & Kemp weren’t used as the rising star.

 

[cowboy cookie returns?]

36 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

Will the promoter arrange other meetings given the likely early finish to the season or simply call it a day and hopefully come back in 2024. Sad really when you think back a few years and look at how weekly speedway was almost the norm from March to October and we would turn up at Foxhall and be entertained by the likes of Mark Loram, Chris Louis, Scott Nicholls, Robert Miskowiak, etc.. Now all you have is a pale shadow of what was once a good nights entertainment. I am glad I saw the sport through the 60’s to the 2000’s and have witnessed entertainment, memorable moments and some decent on track racing where riders gave it everything notwithstanding the conditions and you appreciated the effort. Now the riders do not give a fig about the supporters and believe the paying punter owes them a living and you have certain people managing teams where you would get more inspiration from paint drying. Hopefully we will get to see a 16 Lapper if nothing else.

The 16 Lapper a great event. It was the catalyst to the superb 98 season when a certain Mr Gollob rode Foxhall for the first time. Also gave me a chance to see my hero the cowboy a couple more times long after his days as a Witch.

 

[Hawk127]

1 hour ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The 16 Lapper a great event. It was the catalyst to the superb 98 season when a certain Mr Gollob rode Foxhall for the first time. Also gave me a chance to see my hero the cowboy a couple more times long after his days as a Witch.

 

It was something special seeing eight riders start a race that required bike and rider stamina, standing on the first and second bends at Foxhall watching riders go for it was awesome. Those were the days and I still think that with the right attitude the sport that create those glory days. It just needs every club to pull together and forget trying to attract the GP stars. Bring back good racing and stop looking over your shoulder to see what the rest of the world/Europe are doing. Screw Europe and the rest and start entertaining your home audience 

[Gavan]

3 hours ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

The 16 Lapper a great event. It was the catalyst to the superb 98 season when a certain Mr Gollob rode Foxhall for the first time. Also gave me a chance to see my hero the cowboy a couple more times long after his days as a Witch.

 

Always remember the 1989 16 lapper final race 

Schoey falling because of a rabbit 

Dean Standing being stretchered off 

Then Loram and Galvin needing a 4 lap run off which Mark was leading comfortably when going into the last bend his forks snapped !

 

[IainB]

16 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

It was something special seeing eight riders start a race that required bike and rider stamina, standing on the first and second bends at Foxhall watching riders go for it was awesome. Those were the days and I still think that with the right attitude the sport that create those glory days. It just needs every club to pull together and forget trying to attract the GP stars. Bring back good racing and stop looking over your shoulder to see what the rest of the world/Europe are doing. Screw Europe and the rest and start entertaining your home audience 

Have you seen the 250cc racing? I truly believe this is the way the sport in the UK should be heading. The bikes look a hell of a lot more rideable, watching the kids ride them yesterday they were having no bother at all, imagine what the experienced riders could do on them and they're not that much slower than the 500's

[OveFundinFan]

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Have you seen the 250cc racing? I truly believe this is the way the sport in the UK should be heading. The bikes look a hell of a lot more rideable, watching the kids ride them yesterday they were having no bother at all, imagine what the experienced riders could do on them and they're not that much slower than the 500's

Cant completely agree nor disagree with you.  I agree todays machines are too unwieldly, especially to less experienced ones. However, those 250 bikes are not for the big boys. For starters the seniors will weigh a lot more than those kids, meaning the bikes will respond even less favourably when they locked up, the engine will just be flat. Likewise if the track gets heavy ie too much dirt or water. The meeting yesterday was enjoyable because they were kids under 16, but there wasn't a great deal of passing really.                             

The way to go is back to upright 2 valves with a limit on carburettor size (thats easy to check as well), and stick a rev limit on them as well. That should bring the cost down for everyone, 

The racing used to be exciting in the 70's when it was 2 valvers, and even the 80'sat the onset of 4 valvers, so the super rockets of today are not needed for excitement. For progress> Nah I dont think it is progress. Hasnt the IOW speedway tried a meeting of 2 valvers, or something radicle. 

[mikebv]

28 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Cant completely agree nor disagree with you.  I agree todays machines are too unwieldly, especially to less experienced ones. However, those 250 bikes are not for the big boys. For starters the seniors will weigh a lot more than those kids, meaning the bikes will respond even less favourably when they locked up, the engine will just be flat. Likewise if the track gets heavy ie too much dirt or water. The meeting yesterday was enjoyable because they were kids under 16, but there wasn't a great deal of passing really.                             

The way to go is back to upright 2 valves with a limit on carburettor size (thats easy to check as well), and stick a rev limit on them as well. That should bring the cost down for everyone, 

The racing used to be exciting in the 70's when it was 2 valvers, and even the 80'sat the onset of 4 valvers, so the super rockets of today are not needed for excitement. For progress> Nah I dont think it is progress. Hasnt the IOW speedway tried a meeting of 2 valvers, or something radicle. 

You would have to get every country to agree..

And the FIM would need to be invoived to enforce the rule, as all their competitions would need to follow the sane regulations..

And riders with currently tens of thousands of pounds of machinery would have no use for it, and need to purchase more..  

A potentially good idea but simply that horse has bolted and their isn't even a stable anymore, never mind a door to it...

[IainB]

32 minutes ago, OveFundinFan said:

Cant completely agree nor disagree with you.  I agree todays machines are too unwieldly, especially to less experienced ones. However, those 250 bikes are not for the big boys. For starters the seniors will weigh a lot more than those kids, meaning the bikes will respond even less favourably when they locked up, the engine will just be flat. Likewise if the track gets heavy ie too much dirt or water. The meeting yesterday was enjoyable because they were kids under 16, but there wasn't a great deal of passing really.                             

The way to go is back to upright 2 valves with a limit on carburettor size (thats easy to check as well), and stick a rev limit on them as well. That should bring the cost down for everyone, 

The racing used to be exciting in the 70's when it was 2 valvers, and even the 80'sat the onset of 4 valvers, so the super rockets of today are not needed for excitement. For progress> Nah I dont think it is progress. Hasnt the IOW speedway tried a meeting of 2 valvers, or something radicle. 

I can't completely agree or disagree with you either as I'm not technically minded at all when it comes to machinery, we can agree that today's 500cc machines are too powerful though. 

Not so sure about the size of the rider though, Mikkel Andersen was bigger than his dad! Take your point though... I know I've seen the last 2 SGP3 meetings, last years was the best speedway racing olIb think I've ever seen anywhere, and the performance of the bikes was a lot closer to those of the 70's & 80's where they appeared to be operating at max performance for the size of the track, you get the feeling that today's machines would be more suited to the long tracks. 

[IainB]

8 minutes ago, mikebv said:

You would have to get every country to agree..

And the FIM would need to be invoived to enforce the rule, as all their competitions would need to follow the sane regulations..

And riders with currently tens of thousands of pounds of machinery would have no use for it, and need to purchase more..  

A potentially good idea but simply that horse has bolted and their isn't even a stable anymore, never mind a door to it...

Oh I totally agree with this, it's never going to happen, not in a million years

[SPEEDY69]

On 7/15/2023 at 4:00 PM, iainb said:

I can't completely agree or disagree with you either as I'm not technically minded at all when it comes to machinery, we can agree that today's 500cc machines are too powerful though. 

Not so sure about the size of the rider though, Mikkel Andersen was bigger than his dad! Take your point though... I know I've seen the last 2 SGP3 meetings, last years was the best speedway racing olIb think I've ever seen anywhere, and the performance of the bikes was a lot closer to those of the 70's & 80's where they appeared to be operating at max performance for the size of the track, you get the feeling that today's machines would be more suited to the long tracks. 

I don't think they are - they aren't that far ahead of the bikes of yesteryear but it's the way that power is delivered which makes then so unpredictable at times.  This could be changed but it would need the FIM to implement and of course then tuners are now such a big part of top speedway and need to protect their income.

[IainB]

14 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

I don't think they are - they aren't that far ahead of the bikes of yesteryear but it's the way that power is delivered which makes then so unpredictable at times.  This could be changed but it would need the FIM to implement and of course then tuners are now such a big part of top speedway and need to protect their income.

just speaking as an observer, the 250's of today seem more akin to the 500's of yesteryear where they seem to reach their max speed before the end of the straight, where as the 500's look as though they'll just keep pulling and pulling. looking at the race times between SGP and SGP3 at the weekend there was only 3 or 4 seconds difference between the 2, so I'd suggest that having double the cc for an extra 2 or 3 seconds seems a bit overkill