UK Speedway in Turmoil?

[steve roberts]

41 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

The bonus point system is far better than the convoluted system of points given depending on how many points you won the meeting by, if you were home or away, which way the wind was blowing etc. 

The main reason for this being that it is simple. It also keeps some meetings alive until the end as there is still something to race for. Granted, the above system does the same but in a much more complicated manner. 

We should be looking to keep things simple. Easily explainable to newcomers. We could easily follow football’s lead and make it three points for a win and one for a draw. That would work too but may result in more tonkings and average manipulation once meetings are sewn up. 

 

Personally I felt that the aggregate bonus point system was one of the better innovations and during the Nielsen years at Cowley we certainly benefitted when during that period we were consistantly one of the more attractive teams away from home taking into account points scored and against although our home record could sometimes be suspect none more so than in 1990 when we achieved the best away record but threw too many points away at home.

Edited August 1, 2023 by steve roberts

[Sotonian]

14 hours ago, OveFundinFan said:

Pity you can’t see the benefit of the Aggregate Bonus Point. Keeps both teams trying to score race points….that means all riders will be trying their best every race.

Equally I can see why perhaps won’t work in football.

Surely getting paid per point is the best incentive?

[Deano]

T20 was introduced in cricket to give it a different impetus. A different audience.

Speedway has always been four laps, four riders, x number of heats, seven riders etc.

why not just introduce a competition that changes all that.

Create an environment that eliminates first out the gate, wins  every race.

Riders don’t have maximum rides

one rider one bike per meeting

change the point system etc

introduce a nomad team for fans who don’t have a team to follow

change to county teams

 

anything.. what can we lose

 

Edited August 1, 2023 by Deano

[truthsayer]

5 minutes ago, Deano said:

T20 was introduced in cricket to give it a different impetus. A different audience.

Speedway has always been four laps, four riders, x number of heats, seven riders etc.

why not just introduce a competition that changes all that.

Create an environment that eliminates first out the gate, wins  every race.

Riders don’t have maximum rides

one rider one bike per meeting

change the point system etc

introduce a nomad team for fans who don’t have a team to follow

change to county teams

 

anything.. what can we lose

 

Exactly what that man says.

Cricket (a game I just don't understand) is the perfect example: an outdated old game adapted to modern conditions. I'd argue darts and cue sports have done the same. Variants of speedway could make the sport more accessible.

Does speedway have to be outdoors? On shale? Teams? Adapting the sport to tarmac could open up new venues, more riders and making it less volatile to the weather. Electric is another way to make it more accessible and create positive PR. These things don't have to be either/or, but traditional speedway can co-exist around other formats, at which point one may become dominant.

 

[Deano]

10 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

 

Does speedway have to be outdoors? On shale? Teams? 

 

The same bikes have worked on ice rinks.

For me it’s exactly what you suggest, something that grabs imaginations and marketed. But, used alongside traditional speedway for us die hards.

[truthsayer]

1 minute ago, Deano said:

The same bikes have worked on ice rinks.

For me it’s exactly what you suggest, something that grabs imaginations and marketed. But, used alongside traditional speedway for us die hards.

'Speedway' away from dirt has many advantages. In theory, you could make more tracks, more cheaply. They would be less susceptible to weather and they would not require curation between races.

Tyres would obviously have to be different, but that's likely the main difference (and a different riding style). It's like tennis (or rallying) where surfaces are different but the sport fundamentally the same. Passing would likely be more difficult on asphalt, however you should be able to pack much more racing into an event, giving better value to riders and spectators.

[Deano]

You could even remove rider averages as a way of setting up a team. Pay riders all the same, but the winning team shares a winning bonus. All riders have the same machinery, transport and kit, so similar expenses. If the machinery is standard make it sit on and go etc. Riders sign up for a season at a time, with a pool of riders to cover injuries across the competition etc.

[steve roberts]

49 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Exactly what that man says.

Cricket (a game I just don't understand) is the perfect example: an outdated old game adapted to modern conditions. I'd argue darts and cue sports have done the same. Variants of speedway could make the sport more accessible.

Does speedway have to be outdoors? On shale? Teams? Adapting the sport to tarmac could open up new venues, more riders and making it less volatile to the weather. Electric is another way to make it more accessible and create positive PR. These things don't have to be either/or, but traditional speedway can co-exist around other formats, at which point one may become dominant.

 

I went to three Wembley Indoor Meetings and a Double Header at the NEC and as a novelty and a winter warmer they were okay but personally I grew tired of the format but perhaps in a bigger arena with bigger tracks who knows. Perhaps the O2 Arena in the Docklands? Didn't think much of Telford however.

[steve roberts]

34 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

'Speedway' away from dirt has many advantages. In theory, you could make more tracks, more cheaply. They would be less susceptible to weather and they would not require curation between races.

Tyres would obviously have to be different, but that's likely the main difference (and a different riding style). It's like tennis (or rallying) where surfaces are different but the sport fundamentally the same. Passing would likely be more difficult on asphalt, however you should be able to pack much more racing into an event, giving better value to riders and spectators.

Something that John Berry questioned in one of his books.

[Deano]

7 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I went to three Wembley Indoor Meetings and a Double Header at the NEC and as a novelty and a winter warmer they were okay but personally I grew tired of the format but perhaps in a bigger arena with bigger tracks who knows. Perhaps the O2 Arena in the Docklands? Didn't think much of Telford however.

It’s only another competition though and it should be allowed to evolve. Traditional speedway will still work alongside it. Fans will prefer one to the other, some may prefer both. Same with riders and promoters.

Edited August 1, 2023 by Deano

[iris123]

Trouble with these ideas and comparisons 

Wasn't it someone with a lot of money that forced changes in cricket ? And also of course recently golf

And wasn't it money and pretty much a dictator that helped darts and snooker ?

I don't think there is either in speedway. Plus this sort of plan would then mean a new sport basically and desperate the UK from the rest of the world

Women's football is an interesting one though. The same game, just with different competitors, and for the life of me I don't know why, but it has become far more popular than speedway

Edited August 1, 2023 by iris123

[truthsayer]

13 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

I went to three Wembley Indoor Meetings and a Double Header at the NEC and as a novelty and a winter warmer they were okay but personally I grew tired of the format but perhaps in a bigger arena with bigger tracks who knows. Perhaps the O2 Arena in the Docklands? Didn't think much of Telford however.

Ultimately it doesn't matter what you (or I) think. It's about looking at how we expand the audience beyond us here.

Anyway, I agree that indoors is always limited by the size of the venue, which leads to really small tracks. Hire costs would also make it difficult. But outdoor speedway on asphalt could be freaking fast, like longtrack at some venues, and certainly it would be possible to enter some other stockcar tracks where there is a hard surface.

Thinking outside the box is where it is at. I think there is something in 'carny' type meetings, aimed at tourists and casual fans rather than hardcore supporters.

 

[JamesHarris]

42 minutes ago, iris123 said:

Trouble with these ideas and comparisons 

Wasn't it someone with a lot of money that forced changes in cricket ? And also of course recently golf

And wasn't it money and pretty much a dictator that helped darts and snooker ?

I don't think there is either in speedway. Plus this sort of plan would then mean a new sport basically and desperate the UK from the rest of the world

Women's football is an interesting one though. The same game, just with different competitors, and for the life of me I don't know why, but it has become far more popular than speedway

Is it as popular as you are led to believe though? It's very easy to fill stands when you are giving away tickets or selling them for the same price as a McDonalds meal. I've nothing against women's football but the standard is poor. It is being rammed down our throats that it is the most popular sport in the world right now. If that was so you would see houses and pubs decked out in England flags for the women's world cup and so far I have only seen one.

[truthsayer]

17 minutes ago, JamesHarris said:

Is it as popular as you are led to believe though? It's very easy to fill stands when you are giving away tickets or selling them for the same price as a McDonalds meal. I've nothing against women's football but the standard is poor. It is being rammed down our throats that it is the most popular sport in the world right now. If that was so you would see houses and pubs decked out in England flags for the women's world cup and so far I have only seen one.

Women's football has the massive might of the FA and Premier League clubs behind it. And it's the only chance England have of winning anything.

But, in all seriousness, I agree it's not as popular as may be perceived, but still way more popular than speedway (or indeed any motorsport outside of F1). 

Speedway's lack of a 'dictator' is definitely to its disadvantage, even though the current cartel is a dictatorship of sorts.

I mean, if I want to run 'speedway' on asphalt, or run a 'speedway' tournament outside of the league structure, would they support me in my aims to build the sport - or do all they can to shut me down?

[steve roberts]

25 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Women's football has the massive might of the FA and Premier League clubs behind it. And it's the only chance England have of winning anything.

But, in all seriousness, I agree it's not as popular as may be perceived, but still way more popular than speedway (or indeed any motorsport outside of F1). 

Speedway's lack of a 'dictator' is definitely to its disadvantage, even though the current cartel is a dictatorship of sorts.

I mean, if I want to run 'speedway' on asphalt, or run a 'speedway' tournament outside of the league structure, would they support me in my aims to build the sport - or do all they can to shut me down?

Again an old story but John Berry put his name forward but quickly withdrew it when he soon realised that he wouldn't get the backing that was required to make it work.

[steve roberts]

49 minutes ago, JamesHarris said:

Is it as popular as you are led to believe though? It's very easy to fill stands when you are giving away tickets or selling them for the same price as a McDonalds meal. I've nothing against women's football but the standard is poor. It is being rammed down our throats that it is the most popular sport in the world right now. If that was so you would see houses and pubs decked out in England flags for the women's world cup and so far I have only seen one.

...I'm particularly aghast at the poor standard of goalkeepership (if there is such a word).

[midlandred]

Women playing at football was the lead on BBC 6 o’clock news.  

[tyler42]

8 hours ago, JamesHarris said:

Is it as popular as you are led to believe though? It's very easy to fill stands when you are giving away tickets or selling them for the same price as a McDonalds meal. I've nothing against women's football but the standard is poor. It is being rammed down our throats that it is the most popular sport in the world right now. If that was so you would see houses and pubs decked out in England flags for the women's world cup and so far I have only seen one.

Yes the comparison between Chelsea mens season tickets and Ladies is quite telling. The cheapest Season ticket for the Woman is £60 whereas the Mens is £750!! The most expensive for Woman is £120 for men £940. The ladies team don't even get to play at Stamford Bridge!

[Grachan]

11 hours ago, iris123 said:

Trouble with these ideas and comparisons 

Wasn't it someone with a lot of money that forced changes in cricket ? And also of course recently golf

And wasn't it money and pretty much a dictator that helped darts and snooker ?

I don't think there is either in speedway. Plus this sort of plan would then mean a new sport basically and desperate the UK from the rest of the world

Women's football is an interesting one though. The same game, just with different competitors, and for the life of me I don't know why, but it has become far more popular than speedway

I've been watching the Women's football World Cup. For me it's been more entertaining than any speedway I've seen this year apart from the World Cup final.

[Grachan]

9 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I'm particularly aghast at the poor standard of goalkeepership (if there is such a word).

I take it you must have watch England v China!