UK Speedway in Turmoil?

[IainB]

3 hours ago, mikebv said:

Weren't rev limiters proposed and supposedly going to be implemented? 

They mentioned during commentary during one of the GP's this season that they're used in the GP's don't know about elsewhere though

[phillwhitewasmad]

9 hours ago, iainb said:

They mentioned during commentary during one of the GP's this season that they're used in the GP's don't know about elsewhere though

Limiters are enforced abroad but not in the uk . They are set at 13500 revs so can't go above that personally not sure they help as bikes are only at that level momentarily on the start 

[Ben91]

One thing I’ve noticed since I stuck my head back in here recently is that in the main it’s similar names with the same points they had years ago, harking back to the 80s and before. Not criticism, observation. 

Things often look better in hindsight but the good old days haven’t become the 2000s or 2010s. That says a lot about the state of the sport then, and how it is now. Why aren’t people harking back to the glory days of the Premier League reserves being given grades instead of averages for one season, what about the momentous decision to throw third tier riders into the top division as “fast track” reserves? Or when the Elite and Premier Leagues were rebranded the Premiership and Championship? 

In reality things are even worse now. The sport is dying out with its fans. The slide needed arresting two decades ago, it’s even more imperative now. But while self interest rules the day it’s a case of squeezing every last penny out of an old nag before taking it to the glue factory. 

[Toady]

5 hours ago, Ben91 said:

One thing I’ve noticed since I stuck my head back in here recently is that in the main it’s similar names with the same points they had years ago, harking back to the 80s and before. Not criticism, observation. 

Things often look better in hindsight but the good old days haven’t become the 2000s or 2010s. That says a lot about the state of the sport then, and how it is now. Why aren’t people harking back to the glory days of the Premier League reserves being given grades instead of averages for one season, what about the momentous decision to throw third tier riders into the top division as “fast track” reserves? Or when the Elite and Premier Leagues were rebranded the Premiership and Championship? 

In reality things are even worse now. The sport is dying out with its fans. The slide needed arresting two decades ago, it’s even more imperative now. But while self interest rules the day it’s a case of squeezing every last penny out of an old nag before taking it to the glue factory. 

There has been plenty of good stuff served up in those 20 years but I guess a lot of the posters on here see the previous years as their heyday just like with music always better when they were young.

[mikebv]

31 minutes ago, Toady said:

There has been plenty of good stuff served up in those 20 years but I guess a lot of the posters on here see the previous years as their heyday just like with music always better when they were young.

The racing is, I would say, better than ever..

The amount of TV coverage has never been so high, both domestically and globally..

Both, combined, delivering huge opportunities for growth in the UK..

Sadly, opportunities that are never taken up, or maybe even noticed?, it appears..

 

[Humphrey Appleby]

20 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Not really. Making an engine with more longevity would be relatively easy. The high maintenance is largely because they are tuned to rev to high rpm to make maximum power. Capping rpm would cause less wear and should create a more tractable engine.

Well yes lower rpm in principle would contribute to improved reliability, but then riders will complain about a lack of power to spin the wheel etc... I've never ridden speedway though, so can't really comment on the merits of this approach. 

However...

20 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Making a sealed engine to a lower spec would do away with a lot of the more expensive parts and would increase service life. I'd suggest an engine could last half a season easily, against six meetings at present. I'd suggest your £3k saving is quite a way out. I'm not too up on prices these days, but I'd suggest the saving in buying the engine and maintaining it would be much more - probably like £10k a season.

Sealed engines would contribute little of nothing to the problem unless you had a centrally maintained pool of engines at arm's length from the riders.

Firstly you're reliant on the honesty of engine tuners when many will have working relationships with particular riders. Okay, you can still unseal an engine to inspect it, but then why do you need to seal it?

The next issue is that even if you mandate stock parts, all that will happen is tuners buying up multiple examples to find the best bits to put in their engines. In the world of karting, I can say with an absolute fact that it was cheaper to run in unsealed engine classes than sealed classes, although I would completely agree that the lower revving engines with rev limiters had significantly longer service intervals.

I think another question is why riders have to basically replace a significant part of the internals of a speedway engine out of the factory? Presumably this is because the tolerances and quality control leaves something to be desired, but speedway engines are specially built for the purpose and are hardly mass produced. Would have thought if it wasn't necessary to use custom replacements for half the engine, that would also represent a saving?

[Ben91]

1 hour ago, Toady said:

There has been plenty of good stuff served up in those 20 years but I guess a lot of the posters on here see the previous years as their heyday just like with music always better when they were young.

I think the redeeming factor is always the bikes on the track. The essence never truly changes. 

I’d struggle to think of anything aside from air fences becoming mandatory that has been a change for the better here otherwise sadly. Perhaps I’m jaded but it makes me sad to see what the sport has become. 

[truthsayer]

1 hour ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Sealed engines would contribute little of nothing to the problem unless you had a centrally maintained pool of engines at arm's length from the riders.

Sealed engines work in other forms of motorsport...

It would go to tender. A company would supply and prepare motors to the agreed spec. They would be tested, sealed and allocated on a random basis. They would be leased to the riders (or teams) and swapped when they meet their service intervals.

It only works where riders cannot touch internals, and where things like the carb and electronics are standard (but gearing, fuelling and ignition settings would be fine). Policing might be a problem for speedway, and there where would need to be a pool of spare engines available at league meetings, but honestly it shouldn't be too difficult. A system like this works in Moto2, where Triumph make engines and a company called Externpro service them. Even in Moto3, where there are multiple manufacturers, the spec is set at the start of the season and the motors are all prepared identically and sealed. Other forms of road racing have 'stock' classes, where engines are not sealed but are tested at every race to ensure they are legal.

Speedway's difference is that the meetings are spread out and that having a dyno and service is not feasible in the same way as road racing, but if I was designing speedway from scratch today these would be my rules and I doubt it would be too difficult to implement.

[KK62]

4 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Sealed engines work in other forms of motorsport...

It would go to tender. A company would supply and prepare motors to the agreed spec. They would be tested, sealed and allocated on a random basis. They would be leased to the riders (or teams) and swapped when they meet their service intervals.

It only works where riders cannot touch internals, and where things like the carb and electronics are standard (but gearing, fuelling and ignition settings would be fine). Policing might be a problem for speedway, and there where would need to be a pool of spare engines available at league meetings, but honestly it shouldn't be too difficult. A system like this works in Moto2, where Triumph make engines and a company called Externpro service them. Even in Moto3, where there are multiple manufacturers, the spec is set at the start of the season and the motors are all prepared identically and sealed. Other forms of road racing have 'stock' classes, where engines are not sealed but are tested at every race to ensure they are legal.

Speedway's difference is that the meetings are spread out and that having a dyno and service is not feasible in the same way as road racing, but if I was designing speedway from scratch today these would be my rules and I doubt it would be too difficult to implement.

You mean like those that were tried with the ‘ Dugard ‘ 140 engines for junior racing?  only for the seals to be ‘copied’ and offered around by another engine tuner  and the scheme was abandoned within weeks .

[truthsayer]

1 minute ago, KK62 said:

You mean like those that were tried with the ‘ Dugard ‘ 140 engines for junior racing?  only for the seals to be ‘copied’ and offered around by another engine tuner  and the scheme was abandoned within weeks .

I wasn't aware of that but there is history in making tamperproof engines. I wouldn't let that experience rule out such a system in the future.

[Piotr Pyszny]

On 7/13/2023 at 7:28 PM, steve roberts said:

I guess part of the thrill was being able to stand right up close to the fence (as was Exeter)?

Anyone standing next to the start at Halifax could, if so minded, reach out and touch the rider on the outside gate.

Used to enjoy standing next to the (steel) safety fence on turn one. In addition to a perfect view of the battle for supremacy from the gate, one was next to the pits and to the 'push off' part of the track. Plenty to take in.

I worked in Exeter during 1998, and went most weeks to the speedway (having visited the County Ground two or three times previously). Other than the high speed of the riders, at least compared to other tracks, the County Ground, I found, was rather short on thrills. Very difficult to pass - and, owing to the track's reputation (I recall Daz Sumner remarking: "It's not speedway"), most visiting teams were beaten before the meeting began.

Edited July 15, 2023 by Piotr Pyszny

[truthsayer]

3 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

I worked in Exeter during 1998, and went most weeks to the speedway (having visited the County Ground two or three times previously). Other than the high speed of the riders, at least compared to other tracks, the County Ground, I found, was rather short on thrills. Very difficult to pass - and, owing to the track's reputation (I recall Daz Sumner remarking: "It's not speedway"), most visiting teams were beaten before the meeting began.

Very true that. I've always banged on about how I think speedway is principally an individual sport masquerading as a team event and I think this proves why it still can work as a team sport.

Exeter was a unique circuit (which is good). The home riders knew the secrets and the away riders were, as you say, beaten before they got there. But the home fans loved the big wins. I think that's why speedway appeals to some spectators as a team sport. They love seeing their team rack up a massive win, regardless of the quality of racing. I don't get it really, but in the days when we had a bigger pool of riders and they were more loyal to teams, big home wins (at all tracks) were the norm and was part of the appeal for the fans.

[steve roberts]

4 hours ago, Piotr Pyszny said:

Anyone standing next to the start at Halifax could, if so minded, reach out and touch the rider on the outside gate.

Used to enjoy standing next to the (steel) safety fence on turn one. In addition to a perfect view of the battle for supremacy from the gate, one was next to the pits and to the 'push off' part of the track. Plenty to take in.

I worked in Exeter during 1998, and went most weeks to the speedway (having visited the County Ground two or three times previously). Other than the high speed of the riders, at least compared to other tracks, the County Ground, I found, was rather short on thrills. Very difficult to pass - and, owing to the track's reputation (I recall Daz Sumner remarking: "It's not speedway"), most visiting teams were beaten before the meeting began.

Recall Malcom Simmons disliking the track before he moved to Poole but then re-set his mindset and didn't find it as "frightening" as he once thought however his views on Newport and Bristol were less complimentary! Martin Ashby improved considerably as a rider after his en-forced move to the County Ground which required a different approach and Phil Crump enjoyed his visits there! Certainly not the most popular track for visiting riders and many held it in trepidation when due to visit and many apparent "breakdowns" on route to Devon were often reported.

Edited July 15, 2023 by steve roberts

[Lefty]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:44 AM, steve roberts said:

Certainly not the most popular track for visiting riders and many held it in trepidation when due to visit and many apparent "breakdowns" on route to Devon were often reported.

I often wondered if there was an original 'BEN Fund' that helped riders get there vehicles repaired after breakdowns on the way to 'B'ristol, 'E'xeter & 'N'ewport ! Wolves fans used to speculate if George Hunter would appear at these venues and some suggested r/r should already be printed in the respective programmes!

[Piotr Pyszny]

On 7/15/2023 at 8:44 AM, steve roberts said:

Recall Malcom Simmons disliking the track before he moved to Poole but then re-set his mindset and didn't find it as "frightening" as he once thought however his views on Newport and Bristol were less complimentary! Martin Ashby improved considerably as a rider after his en-forced move to the County Ground which required a different approach and Phil Crump enjoyed his visits there! Certainly not the most popular track for visiting riders and many held it in trepidation when due to visit and many apparent "breakdowns" on route to Devon were often reported.

Sounds like the speedway equivalent of rugby league's 'Cumbrian 'flu'!

[Bear_Bottom]

British Speedway website 23rd July showing a picture of two defunct teams and an attendance a children's party could beat.  Great advert for the sport. 

 

Edited July 23, 2023 by Bear_Bottom
Someone's bothered to change the picture!!!

[mikebv]

48 minutes ago, Bear_Bottom said:

British Speedway website 22nd July showing a picture of two defunct teams and an attendance a children's party could beat.  Great advert for the sport. 

 

Cutting edge...

[OldHawk]

Is Phil Morris or anyone actually doing anything to save speedway? If anyone knows please let me know because I dont see anything.

The only actual effort appears to be Steve Ribbons at Rye House.

If efforts are being made they should be visible. I got my MP actively involved he showed me efforts made by the Wolves MP for example. I wrote to everyone I could think of speedway star, BSPA office etc . Nothing only silence. It really is crap beyond any reasonable words I could ever publicly use.

[heathen52]

9 minutes ago, OldHawk said:

Is Phil Morris or anyone actually doing anything to save speedway? If anyone knows please let me know because I dont see anything.

The only actual effort appears to be Steve Ribbons at Rye House.

If efforts are being made they should be visible. I got my MP actively involved he showed me efforts made by the Wolves MP for example. I wrote to everyone I could think of speedway star, BSPA office etc . Nothing only silence. It really is crap beyond any reasonable words I could ever publicly use.

I can assure you that there are continuing efforts to bring Cradley Heathens back, however we more often than not bump into the wall of ignore when approaching landowners to lease land for Speedway, more recently we seem to have received the same response (or lack of it) from Dudley Councillors when contacting them about relocation, I personally am of the opinion that we should now be setting up a PR campaign actually criticising the Council for it's lack of help in identifying a suitable site and telling us why such and such a site is not suitable, they the Council have NEVER said no that site is suitable but if you could do this maybe it could be considered, it's obvious after 28 years or so without a Track there is no ideal site in Dudley which is not helped by the Councils attitude.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Will the last to leave please turn off the lights.....