UK Speedway in Turmoil?

[Bald Bloke]

20 hours ago, E I Addio said:

You mean like this ?

 オートレース ロケットスタートVS鬼の追い足 （Auto Race Rocket starter VS Chaser) - Bing video

All you need is a roundabout near you. Cheap as chips racing 

Roundabout Speedway na rondzie żużel Lublin - #redbull team - YouTube

[E I Addio]

2 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said:

All you need is a roundabout near you. Cheap as chips racing 

Roundabout Speedway na rondzie żużel Lublin - #redbull team - YouTube

Great ! No rain offs either

 

[E I Addio]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

Some will say what they like about Len and his style of management and running of a speedway team - but for many years he not only ran a very successful 2nd tier team which won all sorts but also a Conference/National league side too. Many critics said about him not spending a penny more than his budget allowed and the infamous dropping of Jason Doyle for Steve Boxall .

A couple of years later after he sold up the place closed down once it got left in the wrong hands. Same could be said for Newport and a whole host of other clubs.

Undoubtedly without Len Rye House would have ceased to exist years ago.  What his critics don’t realise is that his “budget “ was the profit from his Silver Ski business that paid for his purchase of the track and balancing the books on the running of his loss making speedway team. There would be no Rye House without Len undoubtedly. Before that he worked extremely hard, “ above and beyond “ to keep the crowds coming to Hackney. Far more than most promoters would do. Speedway owes him a lot. With his organisational talent he could certainly have been a wealthier man if he never got involved with Speedway promotion. I think he became a big old school in his presentations in the later years but that’s hardly a big deal.

As for Boxall and Doyle  I don’t think back in the days when Doyle was a reserve at Poole that many people would put money on him becoming world champion. On the other hand I think Boxall really was was one of speedways lost talents. He had great natural ability on very poor and unreliable machinery and could have been a pretty decent rider had it not been for an unfortunate combination of injuries mechanical problems, lack of sponsorship/funding, and mental attitude. He just needed someone to get him to focus more, but in terms of natural ability he was very good.

[Littleze]

2 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Great ! No rain offs either

 

Closest racing there has been for years.. similar sized crowd too :)

[Littleze]

23 hours ago, iris123 said:

In one of Briggo's book back in the 70s he said speedway needs an all weather surface. I just guess there is nothing suitable. Tarmac or concrete etc would either be dangerous or change the sport into a road racing or possibly the Japanese modification of dirt track speedway

It would be good to hear what has been tried & tested, agree with concrete/tarmac.. 

[Littleze]

23 hours ago, E I Addio said:

You mean like this ?

 オートレース ロケットスタートVS鬼の追い足 （Auto Race Rocket starter VS Chaser) - Bing video

I’d watch that all day long.. looks great.

[OveFundinFan]

After 20 minutes I would be bored.

[Skodaman]

On 8/2/2023 at 9:06 AM, Skodaman said:

Many years ago they tried silver sand on tarmac but it was not a success.

This was at Crayford!

[iris123]

And as i have mentioned before i watched a meeting indoors on concrete (with some sort of sand top surface) and it was absolute carnage. In the end they didn't have enough riders to fill the heats,and one rider, the last man standing in one heat got excluded for not racing !!

It was a bit of a surprise, as both Matten Kroger and Stephan Katt both beforehand said they trained during the winter in an old warehouse. But maybe training and racing are different. Or the sand on top of concrete was the main problem. But outside, any dust or dirt and then rain on tarmac or concrete would also be a major problem 

[steve roberts]

2 minutes ago, iris123 said:

And as i have mentioned before i watched a meeting indoors on concrete (with some sort of sand top surface) and it was absolute carnage. In the end they didn't have enough riders to fill the heats,and one rider, the last man standing in one heat got excluded for not racing !!

It was a bit of a surprise, as both Matten Kroger and Stephan Katt both beforehand said they trained during the winter in an old warehouse. But maybe training and racing are different. Or the sand on top of concrete was the main problem. But outside, any dust or dirt and then rain on tarmac or concrete would also be a major problem 

I seem to recall that they tried something similar at Brighton but I've never seen any footage?

[iris123]

The concrete meeting brings another problem to mind

A rider on a dangerous track is the last one left in a heat. Poodles around and gets excluded for not racing

In a proper speedway meeting, individual title. Two riders are out in a race off for the title. by chance before the race off i went to the toilets and on my way back passed both and overheard them agreeing to put on a show....now they went out and raced side by side and were popping wheelies and the ref ignored it all

I felt more robbed by this than a single rider on a dangerous track taking it easy and just getting the 4 laps done 

[Ben91]

4 hours ago, E I Addio said:

Undoubtedly without Len Rye House would have ceased to exist years ago.  What his critics don’t realise is that his “budget “ was the profit from his Silver Ski business that paid for his purchase of the track and balancing the books on the running of his loss making speedway team. There would be no Rye House without Len undoubtedly. Before that he worked extremely hard, “ above and beyond “ to keep the crowds coming to Hackney. Far more than most promoters would do. Speedway owes him a lot. With his organisational talent he could certainly have been a wealthier man if he never got involved with Speedway promotion. I think he became a big old school in his presentations in the later years but that’s hardly a big deal.

As for Boxall and Doyle  I don’t think back in the days when Doyle was a reserve at Poole that many people would put money on him becoming world champion. On the other hand I think Boxall really was was one of speedways lost talents. He had great natural ability on very poor and unreliable machinery and could have been a pretty decent rider had it not been for an unfortunate combination of injuries mechanical problems, lack of sponsorship/funding, and mental attitude. He just needed someone to get him to focus more, but in terms of natural ability he was very good.

What he did at Hackney never really materialised at Rye in terms of promotion but we had some special times in the Premier League under his stewardship. Hoddesdon was never a town capable of sustaining top tier speedway, as the last promotion found out. 

Towards the end there were bad decisions from Len. Doyle for Boxall being the pick of the bunch, along with the “if you don’t like it, don’t come” quote from him on parade before a meeting. That kind of comment has never been good for business. The issue fans had then wasn’t that Boxall was coming back. It was that he could have replaced a lower order rider and we could have kept Doyle. It would have made us a pretty formidable team.

There was also the debacle where we declared ridiculously early one winter before the rules regarding doubling up and average conversion were changed, during which time we’d sold Linus Sundstrom to Peterborough. We could have kept him had we waited until the AGM. That rankled at the time, in hindsight that rule change was one of the major ones that has left the sport in Britain in the mess it now finds itself in. 

[Noelinho]

I’ve nothing but praise for what Len did at Rye House. He made mistakes just like anyone else, but he got us our speedway track back. If only we could do that again.

[mikebv]

The sport in the UK will never be successful without making it worth watching by those unaware of it...

And to do that you need a focal point to create interest..

And that is hyoe and money...

Darts for example came from nowhere due to the money being put up..

The big prize creates interest, and sponsorship off the back of it..

Seven clubs in the Prem, averaging say 1200 a night, at £20 a pop, for 12 matches a season each, would bring in collectively over 2 million quid in income..

Meaning that clubs must pay out an extraordinary amount if they struggle to keep heads above water with that level of income..

Maybe spending some of that incredible output and making a few "big prize" comps would help the whole league structure be more visited off the back of them? 

It seems folly to spend so much, and all we have is what we have today to show for it... 

Edit. And the 2nd tier must take in and pay out over a million collectively..

Over 3 million quid is an incredible amount to deliver the current situation..

Edited August 3, 2023 by mikebv

[Ben91]

14 minutes ago, Noelinho said:

I’ve nothing but praise for what Len did at Rye House. He made mistakes just like anyone else, but he got us our speedway track back. If only we could do that again.

Don’t get me wrong, we wouldn’t have had Speedway back at Rye House if it wasn’t for Len’s efforts (as well as those who got the team back on track in the first place as a nomadic side). But for all the good it wasn’t all roses. It’s important to not think everything was sweetness and light. 2005 and 2007 are two seasons I will always hold dear to me however. 

[truthsayer]

15 minutes ago, mikebv said:

The sport in the UK will never be successful without making it worth watching by those unaware of it...

And to do that you need a focal point to create interest..

And that is hyoe and money...

Darts for example came from nowhere due to the money being put up..

The big prize creates interest, and sponsorship off the back of it..

Seven clubs in the Prem, averaging say 1200 a night, at £20 a pop, for 12 matches a season each, would bring in collectively over 2 million quid in income..

Meaning that clubs must pay out an extraordinary amount if they struggle to keep heads above water with that level of income..

Maybe spending some of that incredible output and making a few "big prize" comps would help the whole league structure be more visited off the back of them? 

It seems folly to spend so much, and all we have is what we have today to show for it... 

Edit. And the 2nd tier must pay out over a million collectively..

Over 3 million quid is an incredible amount to deliver the current situation..

I think you are right but you are also wrong.

Yes, hype works as does prize money. That's true.

Speedway, as a team sport, is such a hard sell. I just can't see people buying into the concept. Maybe I am wrong, but (football and national sports excepted) people are mesmerised by individuals and not teams. In speedway, for every top name, there's another middling rider in the team to balance it out.

Big show needs big venues - top stadia or better still indoor arenas to create a consistent product.

Motorsport is also expensive to put on and to access, although speedway is an inexpensive motorsport - which convinces me that there's maybe a proposition to build it as a participation sport.

Indoor racing and electric are both PR opportunities to 'relaunch' the sport and to shoot it into the minds of those who have long forgotten about it, or who may find more appeal in a more comfortable environment.

Darts is an arena sport. I could see speedway as an arena sport. Pissed up fans, right on top of the riders and a gladiatorial environment with music and lights. The whole 'filling the programme in and tac sub nonsense is just way too anorak for a modern sport)...

Supercross is probably the closest example to what speedway could be. Personally, I'm not a massive fan of the racing but the show is spectacular and the personalities big. Logistically, I just don't see how it could be possible though.

But the thing with supercross is that it is the hero product. Below that there are national and regional motocross championships, riders riding as a hobby and a whole industry going on below it.

A hero speedway product still allows the boring league product to exist if there's a demand for it, but a grassroots product is probably even more essential - because your idea falls apart immediately due to the lack of riders and venues currently economically available.

 

 

 

[mikebv]

34 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

I think you are right but you are also wrong.

Yes, hype works as does prize money. That's true.

Speedway, as a team sport, is such a hard sell. I just can't see people buying into the concept. Maybe I am wrong, but (football and national sports excepted) people are mesmerised by individuals and not teams. In speedway, for every top name, there's another middling rider in the team to balance it out.

Big show needs big venues - top stadia or better still indoor arenas to create a consistent product.

Motorsport is also expensive to put on and to access, although speedway is an inexpensive motorsport - which convinces me that there's maybe a proposition to build it as a participation sport.

Indoor racing and electric are both PR opportunities to 'relaunch' the sport and to shoot it into the minds of those who have long forgotten about it, or who may find more appeal in a more comfortable environment.

Darts is an arena sport. I could see speedway as an arena sport. Pissed up fans, right on top of the riders and a gladiatorial environment with music and lights. The whole 'filling the programme in and tac sub nonsense is just way too anorak for a modern sport)...

Supercross is probably the closest example to what speedway could be. Personally, I'm not a massive fan of the racing but the show is spectacular and the personalities big. Logistically, I just don't see how it could be possible though.

But the thing with supercross is that it is the hero product. Below that there are national and regional motocross championships, riders riding as a hobby and a whole industry going on below it.

A hero speedway product still allows the boring league product to exist if there's a demand for it, but a grassroots product is probably even more essential - because your idea falls apart immediately due to the lack of riders and venues currently economically available.

 

 

 

There needs to be two clear demarcations..

One "the elite" competition that can resonate with the wider public and "sell the sport"..

With "superstars", you don't need many riders just 16 of the best..

The other, being the day to day racing with "anyone" who can ride a bike (like we have today)...

The bottom line is the current team operating model engenders zero emotional attachment for the vast majority of fans, and lapsed fans..

Therefore to keep paying out literally millions for "sod all" is ridiculous.. 

Great sport, with a quite considerable following as Cardiff and the SON, and WTC at the NSS have showed over the past few years..

Harness and target that considerable outlay to advance the sport, rather than just let it disappear with no postive impact to it, as currently happens..

You stick a £250k prize fund comp at the NSS over a weekend and you would get a thousand times more coverage from the wider media than a whole season of team speedway in the UK would...

And a full house which reflects well on the brand during the TV coverage..

Unlike the current "one man and his dog" at live UK broadcasts..

And that £250k is less than 10% than what they all pay out now each season I would suggest..

Which achieves? 

 

.

[SuperSpeed]

14 hours ago, steve roberts said:

I seem to recall that they tried something similar at Brighton but I've never seen any footage?

Martin Dugard ran the "Brighton Bonanza" indoors at the Brighton Centre for around 10 years I think in the late 90s/early 00s, on a temporary shale track.

There are a few clips on YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brighton+bonanza+speedway

And quite an interesting article on it here, with a picture of Edward Kennett driving a forklift:  http://www.speedwayplus.co.uk/Bonanza.shtml

[IainB]

19 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

All you need is a roundabout near you. Cheap as chips racing 

Roundabout Speedway na rondzie żużel Lublin - #redbull team - YouTube

That's the thing Guy Martin had a go at on one of his TV shows a few years ago... reminds me a bit of Cribby going round shale tracks on his ice bike

[HGould]

The sad reality, despite glimmers and slithers of positivity is best summed up by Wembley and Cardiff.

Back in the 70's and 80's around 35-40 UK Tracks operated and if you didn't have a Wembley World Final One Off (3 year cycle) Ticket by May - you would not get one as they were guaranteed 90,000 plus sell outs.

Now with around 20 Tracks operating the annual trip to Cardiff struggles to generate 40,000 fans and that figure seem to be declining.

The regularly attending "speedway audience" is at historically low level, the demograph is rivalled only by the Membership of the Conservative Party for the over 60 age percentage.

Many Clubs have tried to attract kids, some better than others and some of the best at it are no longer running! 

The sooner the reality (as some have suggested) that it adopts the MX SuperMX model the better. The thoughts though of filling indoor Stadia with a Speedway product are pie in the sky.