UK Speedway in Turmoil?

[steve roberts]

I recall the sadly missed Simon Wigg talking about a Grasstrack in France (?) that wasn't the conventional type with a jump, chicane and a right hand bend?

In my opinion (and I would imagine most others) what makes speedway different to other forms of motorcycle racing (except grasstracking although a different technique is required) is the ability to broadside which creates the spectacle. To adopt a hard surface the ability to broadside must be retained  and allowing the rear wheel to "spin" therefore constructing the right surface, adapting bikes (reducing the cubic capacity?) and tyres would be be a critical element. Certainly the initial meetings held at Wembley Pool caused riders all sorts of problems with too much grip although this was addressed to a certain degree at later meetings. Racing Longtrack style is all about keeping the wheels in line as much as possible and top end speed is the element which is why it never really interested me personally.

Edited August 2, 2023 by steve roberts

[mikebv]

15 hours ago, Ben91 said:

The bonus point system is far better than the convoluted system of points given depending on how many points you won the meeting by, if you were home or away, which way the wind was blowing etc. 

The main reason for this being that it is simple. It also keeps some meetings alive until the end as there is still something to race for. Granted, the above system does the same but in a much more complicated manner. 

We should be looking to keep things simple. Easily explainable to newcomers. We could easily follow football’s lead and make it three points for a win and one for a draw. That would work too but may result in more tonkings and average manipulation once meetings are sewn up. 

 

Surely riders not earning any money by being last keeps "meetings alive" though?

Some of the best racing is in heat 15 of meetings that have "nothing to race for"..

Old ground I know, but...

It costs too much to get in for what you get...

There is more atmosphere on the moon than in the stands. And that is down to crowd levels, crowd age, and many in the crowd not emotionally engaged (all due to the operating model), in who wins..

Do what you want with points scoring, playing jokers, helmet cover colours, double points for riding on Pancake Tuesday, triple points for April Fools Day, etc etc etc. 

None of that will make a jot of difference to how many turn up each evening..

Not knowing you actually exist, and not knowing what you actually do, does make a difference who turns up each evening...

As does not racing on nights that could deliver your best crowds,

And never underestimate how many "followers of the sport" actually stay away due to its frankly ludicrous operating model...

There will be more Speedway fans not attending, or not attending regularly, than those that do attend this season, once again..

Get those people back into the stadiums by listening to their feedback, and then giving them what they want for their money, and you would turn the sport around in a moment, given the low base it starts from...

Edited August 2, 2023 by mikebv

[IainB]

13 hours ago, Deano said:

T20 was introduced in cricket to give it a different impetus. A different audience.

Speedway has always been four laps, four riders, x number of heats, seven riders etc.

why not just introduce a competition that changes all that.

Create an environment that eliminates first out the gate, wins  every race.

Riders don’t have maximum rides

one rider one bike per meeting

change the point system etc

introduce a nomad team for fans who don’t have a team to follow

change to county teams

 

anything.. what can we lose

 

We've done that! We've removed the ability to tac-sub in 2 legged matches... I can't understand why the great unwashed have not bought into this.

Your point is spot on though, where other sports (Football the exception) have diversified and run in different formats for different audiences we've abandoned Fours, Pairs, Individuals, Test Matches in favour of running EVERY match exactly the same.

Variety is the spice of life

[Ben91]

The sport doesn’t need gimmicks in my mind, it needs rebuilding. 

The product needs to sell, not specific riders or gimmicks. Premier League football, WWE wrestling, PDC darts. These are a few examples of products that can sell tickets solely on reputation, not off the back of one or two competitors. 

Keep it simple. Focus on the racing. No silly points systems, strip everything right back. Super heats in the bin, the overly complicated gate choosing process after the coin toss in the bin. Tactical rides of any sort in the bin. Play-offs in the bin. Doubling up in the bin. Guests in the bin. Some of the above will need working around, but that is doable. 

Close, competitive racing sells. Stop holding out hope of the “big names” deciding to come back and build a product that will draw fans first, worry about the rest once we get the basics right. Otherwise we continue to build on sand. 

Poland has the reputation of being unassailable as the best league in the world. The reality is they could still do Speedway better too. That means anyone could do Speedway better, but it has to come from a place with solid foundations. 

[Toady]

11 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Women's football has the massive might of the FA and Premier League clubs behind it. And it's the only chance England have of winning anything.

But, in all seriousness, I agree it's not as popular as may be perceived, but still way more popular than speedway (or indeed any motorsport outside of F1). 

Speedway's lack of a 'dictator' is definitely to its disadvantage, even though the current cartel is a dictatorship of sorts.

I mean, if I want to run 'speedway' on asphalt, or run a 'speedway' tournament outside of the league structure, would they support me in my aims to build the sport - or do all they can to shut me down?

Give it a try put your money up. Just as many of them did in the first place. they would be supportive if there was something In it for them

[Skodaman]

13 hours ago, truthsayer said:

'Speedway' away from dirt has many advantages. In theory, you could make more tracks, more cheaply. They would be less susceptible to weather and they would not require curation between races.

Tyres would obviously have to be different, but that's likely the main difference (and a different riding style). It's like tennis (or rallying) where surfaces are different but the sport fundamentally the same. Passing would likely be more difficult on asphalt, however you should be able to pack much more racing into an event, giving better value to riders and spectators.

Many years ago they tried silver sand on tarmac but it was not a success.

[Toady]

6 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

The sport doesn’t need gimmicks in my mind, it needs rebuilding. 

The product needs to sell, not specific riders or gimmicks. Premier League football, WWE wrestling, PDC darts. These are a few examples of products that can sell tickets solely on reputation, not off the back of one or two competitors. 

Keep it simple. Focus on the racing. No silly points systems, strip everything right back. Super heats in the bin, the overly complicated gate choosing process after the coin toss in the bin. Tactical rides of any sort in the bin. Play-offs in the bin. Doubling up in the bin. Guests in the bin. Some of the above will need working around, but that is doable. 

Close, competitive racing sells. Stop holding out hope of the “big names” deciding to come back and build a product that will draw fans first, worry about the rest once we get the basics right. Otherwise we continue to build on sand. 

Poland has the reputation of being unassailable as the best league in the world. The reality is they could still do Speedway better too. That means anyone could do Speedway better, but it has to come from a place with solid foundations. 

Most of those things are what makes speedway exciting for me 

[E I Addio]

11 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Again an old story but John Berry put his name forward but quickly withdrew it when he soon realised that he wouldn't get the backing that was required to make it work.

One thing that comes over in Len Silvers book is how many of the promoters are back stabbers. According to Len, when he was England or GB manager there was a lot a jealousy among those who thought they should have the job. That was purely Lens view of course but the way he openly describes it has the ring of truth to my mind, especially as it seems to have been borne out by events down the years

[E I Addio]

26 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

 

Close, competitive racing sells. 

I have a copy of Speedway  News dated April 1939. It emphasises the need for teams to be equally balanced. More than 80 years later the penny still hasn’t dropped and self interest prevails among the BSPA who seem to still go from bad to worse. If it hasn’t happened in 80 years I don’t think you are going to see it now.

[steve roberts]

2 hours ago, Skodaman said:

Many years ago they tried silver sand on tarmac but it was not a success.

Wasn't crushed shells once used or am I imagining that?

Of course there was the infamous case of Bristol (Eastville) running with a dual sand surface which caused no end of disputes despite attracting good crowds during its short reign.

Edited August 2, 2023 by steve roberts

[Toady]

1 hour ago, E I Addio said:

I have a copy of Speedway  News dated April 1939. It emphasises the need for teams to be equally balanced. More than 80 years later the penny still hasn’t dropped and self interest prevails among the BSPA who seem to still go from bad to worse. If it hasn’t happened in 80 years I don’t think you are going to see it now.

Reading some of the content and suggestions  in this thread some of the contributors may well have been around back then 

[moxey63]

1 hour ago, Toady said:

Reading some of the content and suggestions  in this thread some of the contributors may well have been around back then 

History of the sport that has an uncertain future is the only thing we can be certain of though.

[Littleze]

8 hours ago, Skodaman said:

Many years ago they tried silver sand on tarmac but it was not a success.

I recall Ole Olsen saying that he/they (the authorities) were looking at different surfaces to race on, this was probably 10 or more years ago… never heard the outcome of this (unsurprisingly)

[E I Addio]

22 hours ago, truthsayer said:

 

Does speedway have to be outdoors? On shale? Teams? Adapting the sport to tarmac could open up new venues, more riders and making it less volatile to the weather. Electric is another way to make it more accessible and create positive PR. These things don't have to be either/or, but traditional speedway can co-exist around other formats, at which point one may become dominant.

 

You mean like this ?

 オートレース ロケットスタートVS鬼の追い足 （Auto Race Rocket starter VS Chaser) - Bing video

[iris123]

56 minutes ago, Littleze said:

I recall Ole Olsen saying that he/they (the authorities) were looking at different surfaces to race on, this was probably 10 or more years ago… never heard the outcome of this (unsurprisingly)

In one of Briggo's book back in the 70s he said speedway needs an all weather surface. I just guess there is nothing suitable. Tarmac or concrete etc would either be dangerous or change the sport into a road racing or possibly the Japanese modification of dirt track speedway

[Humphrey Appleby]

8 hours ago, iris123 said:

In one of Briggo's book back in the 70s he said speedway needs an all weather surface. I just guess there is nothing suitable. Tarmac or concrete etc would either be dangerous or change the sport into a road racing or possibly the Japanese modification of dirt track speedway

I'm sure with a bit of materials research it should be possible to come up with a more rain resistant surface. After all, didn't we hear that the GP shale stored in a scientifically designed pyramid shape? LOL

However, there's far more money in cricket and despite advances in drainage and super soppers, rain still stops play. 

I still think the best solution would be to built some sort of cantilevered canopy over the track. Could be a partial roof like you get over Dutch speed skating circuits, or some lightweight tent sort of structure. 

[Humphrey Appleby]

17 hours ago, E I Addio said:

One thing that comes over in Len Silvers book is how many of the promoters are back stabbers. According to Len, when he was England or GB manager there was a lot a jealousy among those who thought they should have the job. That was purely Lens view of course but the way he openly describes it has the ring of truth to my mind, especially as it seems to have been borne out by events down the years

Of course there's a conundrum in that promoters want - indeed need - their own tracks to be successful, but at the same time there's a need for the sport as whole to make as many teams as possible competitive whilst keeping down cost.. Anything run along such lines is invariably going involves squabbles and unholy compromises. 

[E I Addio]

4 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Of course there's a conundrum in that promoters want - indeed need - their own tracks to be successful, but at the same time there's a need for the sport as whole to make as many teams as possible competitive whilst keeping down cost.. Anything run along such lines is invariably going involves squabbles and unholy compromises. 

I was commenting more on Len’s account of his time as GB team manager. The job was run on such a shoestring he even had to buy his own jacket . Its a few years since I read his book and can’t remember all the details but that aspect was not a glowing account of the inner workings of British speedway . Undoubtedly Len Silver is a very single minded character, but the same single mindedness that makes him a very difficult man to work with, also bred the commitment that kept Hackney and Rye House going against the odds for many years. He was undoubtedly a good servant of speedway, did his best for the riders and was a showman who engaged with the fans (although he did eventually pass his sell-by date) . He wasn’t the only one like that of course but if a few more showed half his commitment the sport would be in a better place IMO.

[Najjer]

5 hours ago, E I Addio said:

I was commenting more on Len’s account of his time as GB team manager. The job was run on such a shoestring he even had to buy his own jacket . It’s a few years since I read his book and can’t remember all the details but that aspect was not a glowing account of the inner workings of British speedway . Undoubtedly Len Silver is a very single minded character, but the same single mindedness that makes him a very difficult man to work with, also bred the commitment that kept Hackney and Rye House going against the odds for many years. He was undoubtedly a good servant of speedway, did his best for the riders and was a showman who engaged with the fans (although he did eventually pass his sell-by date) . He wasn’t the only one like that of course but if a few more showed half his commitment the sport would be in a better place IMO.

Some will say what they like about Len and his style of management and running of a speedway team - but for many years he not only ran a very successful 2nd tier team which won all sorts but also a Conference/National league side too. Many critics said about him not spending a penny more than his budget allowed and the infamous dropping of Jason Doyle for Steve Boxall .

A couple of years later after he sold up the place closed down once it got left in the wrong hands. Same could be said for Newport and a whole host of other clubs.

[iris123]

11 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'm sure with a bit of materials research it should be possible to come up with a more rain resistant surface. After all, didn't we hear that the GP shale stored in a scientifically designed pyramid shape? LOL

However, there's far more money in cricket and despite advances in drainage and super soppers, rain still stops play. 

I still think the best solution would be to built some sort of cantilevered canopy over the track. Could be a partial roof like you get over Dutch speed skating circuits, or some lightweight tent sort of structure. 

Not really a cricket fan at all, but was there an attempt to use astro turf , just like a few football clubs used it for a while. Maybe still do