SJA Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: Wayne Jarvis by his decision to exclude NKI delayed the meeting even more and made heat 15 a virtual non event bearing in mind FRICKE was unbeaten and Lawson had only been beaten once by NKI. Common sense should have been applied, supporters go to watch speedway not referees making poor decisions The poor decision would have been to allow NKI to race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 6 minutes ago, Gambo said: The overall consensus of opinion seems to differ from yours. Iversen only just beat the two minutes exclusion, and then proceeded to ignore the Referee and Start Marshall prompts to be ready to race. How long should he have been given? Another minute..two minutes...? It baffles me how the very same riders can follow all orders in Poland, then, sometimes the very next day, ignore them over here.. I can only presume it is down to the threat of any consequence being more unlikely.. Let's hope all refs follow this one, and all remain consistent in approach.. If they do, very quickly, meetings will run much smoother.. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 10, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, mikebv said: It baffles me how the very same riders can follow all orders in Poland, then, sometimes the very next day, ignore them over here.. I can only presume it is down to the threat of any consequence being more unlikely.. Let's hope all refs follow this one, and all remain consistent in approach.. If they do, very quickly, meetings will run much smoother.. He's not got to "guess" how long of the 2 mins is left in Poland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 7 minutes ago, mikebv said: It baffles me how the very same riders can follow all orders in Poland, then, sometimes the very next day, ignore them over here.. I can only presume it is down to the threat of any consequence being more unlikely.. Let's hope all refs follow this one, and all remain consistent in approach.. If they do, very quickly, meetings will run much smoother.. Couldnt agree more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 4 minutes ago, iainb said: He's not got to "guess" how long of the 2 mins is left in Poland They need to get that red, blue, white and yellow strip for the bikes to leave from together at every meeting... Then they would all know they have two mins from then... A huge step forward for the sport in this country that strip thing... Nailing the priority issues.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 6 hours ago, mikebv said: They need to get that red, blue, white and yellow strip for the bikes to leave from together at every meeting... Then they would all know they have two mins from then... A huge step forward for the sport in this country that strip thing... Nailing the priority issues.... Leicester already use something similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 Bring back Frank Ebdon ..... remember Frank excluding all 4 riders at Hackney in Heat One for delaying the start and ignoring his 2 min warning. IIRC he rescinded this decision but boy oh boy the riders were up at tapes promptly for the rest of the meeting :-) :-) Far too much farting around by the prima donna riders ... and even more annoying is that some supporters condone the riders tardy behaviour ..... UK the "land of do as you please" All the delaying tactics finished me off from ever again going to a speedway meeting some years ago. I just didn't have the patience for all their antics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 11 hours ago, Gambo said: The overall consensus of opinion seems to differ from yours. Iversen only just beat the two minutes exclusion, and then proceeded to ignore the Referee and Start Marshall prompts to be ready to race. How long should he have been given? Another minute..two minutes...? As explained earlier David, Niels could have been given a few seconds more, he had just done heats 12 & 13 so I dare say he needed some maintenance and possibly a tyre edge change., which was why he was late going to the gate. It sounds reasonable to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 hour ago, bigcatdiary said: As explained earlier David, Niels could have been given a few seconds more, he had just done heats 12 & 13 so I dare say he needed some maintenance and possibly a tyre edge change., which was why he was late going to the gate. It sounds reasonable to me. Max Fricke had also done Heat 13.... He didn't need extra time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 just have a clock on the centre that everybody can see, problem solved 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skodaman Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 11 hours ago, bigcatdiary said: As explained earlier David, Niels could have been given a few seconds more, he had just done heats 12 & 13 so I dare say he needed some maintenance and possibly a tyre edge change., which was why he was late going to the gate. It sounds reasonable to me. He had plenty of time as the track was graded before ht 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 16 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said: Bring back Frank Ebdon ..... remember Frank excluding all 4 riders at Hackney in Heat One for delaying the start and ignoring his 2 min warning. IIRC he rescinded this decision but boy oh boy the riders were up at tapes promptly for the rest of the meeting :-) :-) Far too much farting around by the prima donna riders ... and even more annoying is that some supporters condone the riders tardy behaviour ..... UK the "land of do as you please" All the delaying tactics finished me off from ever again going to a speedway meeting some years ago. I just didn't have the patience for all their antics. Have a "rest line" 5 meters from the start, then call the riders forward & green light goes on 30 seconds later, no time for "gardening" it's the same for all riders, so no need for them to complain (though they would). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 just have a clock on the centre that everybody can see, problem solved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 4 minutes ago, iainb said: just have a clock on the centre that everybody can see, problem solved The addition of a clock has been mentioned several times. With respect, can I ask what it would mean when the clock reaches zero? Does that indicate that riders have to be on track heading for the start. Or does it mean that riders have to be at the gate but still gardening? Or does it mean that riders have to be at the tapes ready to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 7 minutes ago, False dawn said: The addition of a clock has been mentioned several times. With respect, can I ask what it would mean when the clock reaches zero? Does that indicate that riders have to be on track heading for the start. Or does it mean that riders have to be at the gate but still gardening? Or does it mean that riders have to be at the tapes ready to go? that riders have to be at the tapes ready to go Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 8 minutes ago, iainb said: that riders have to be at the tapes ready to go So if you know you have less than a minute (actually less than 30 seconds) on the 2 minute warning left as you leave the pits, is it reasonably to take significant time gardening, ignore the starting marshal's instructions and to ignore the flashing of the green light by the referee? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 3 minutes ago, False dawn said: So if you know you have less than a minute (actually less than 30 seconds) on the 2 minute warning left as you leave the pits, is it reasonably to take significant time gardening, ignore the starting marshal's instructions and to ignore the flashing of the green light by the referee? It does not matter one bit if there is a clock on the centre that all can see... I really can't see what the debate is about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Sidney Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 19 minutes ago, iainb said: that riders have to be at the tapes ready to go It's a bit more nuanced than that typically. A rider could be enter the track with a second to spare as long as he is proceeding to the starting gate, under power, and without delay - but then he mustn't garden. However, the 2 minutes could have long gone. However, a rider who is at the gate can garden if any time of the 2 minutes is left. Do the refs enforce either? No 011.1.3 2 Minute Allowance The Referee must indicate the start of a 2 minute allowance by means of a warning horn or bell audible in the pit area together with the flashing amber lights if all of the riders are not in the starting area at the same time this warning shall apply to all riders and can be given only once. Except when the Referee considers that there are valid reasons for delaying the start of an ensuing heat, the interval between the finish of one heat and the start of the next shall not exceed 4 minutes including the 2 minute allowance. If a track has a countdown clock, that can be operated solely by the Referee, then it is compulsory for the clock to be used. Riders must, at the expiry of this time allowance, be on track, under power, proceeding without stopping towards the starting gate. If a rider is at the starting gate with sufficient time remaining of the 1 or 2 minute allowance they are permitted to prepare their starting gate area. They must remain in full, personal control of their motorcycle, have the cut out lanyard attached and with their motorcycle facing the direction of racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 11, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 I don't know if you guys are deliberately trying to wind me up... this is perfectly simple. Scrap the rules as they are and implement a new rule to make it mandatory for a clock to be on the centre that we can all see and if a rider is not at the tapes and ready to start when the clock counts down to zero they are disqualified. It doesn't matter if the rider is off his bike break dancing while the 2 minutes are counting down, he can do whatever the hell he wants, but if he's not at the tapes ready to start when the clock hits zero... he's gone And it doesn't matter who physically starts the clock, the ref, the start marshal or even the bloody club mascot as long as it's the under direction of the ref 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
False dawn Posted July 11, 2023 Report Share Posted July 11, 2023 1 minute ago, iainb said: I don't know if you guys are deliberately trying to wind me up... this is perfectly simple. Scrap the rules as they are and implement a new rule to make it mandatory for a clock to be on the centre that we can all see and if a rider is not at the tapes and ready to start when the clock counts down to zero they are disqualified. It doesn't matter if the rider is off his bike break dancing while the 2 minutes are counting down, he can do whatever the hell he wants, but if he's not at the tapes ready to start when the clock hits zero... he's gone And it doesn't matter who physically starts the clock, the ref, the start marshal or even the bloody club mascot as long as it's the under direction of the ref No wind up intended, honest. Your suggestion is eminently sensible. The point in question is the exclusion of NKI under the existing rules. Some seem to suggest that the referee was job's worth or that it didn't matter that a rider could continue gardening in direct contradiction to the instructions of the starting marshal and the referee. Or better still, the rules shouldn't be applied because the race had no meaning or the exclusion caused further delay. If the race had no meaning why did NKI spend so much time preparing for it or take part in it all for that matter? 4 minutes ago, Sir Sidney said: ....If a rider is at the starting gate with sufficient time remaining of the 1 or 2 minute allowance they are permitted to prepare their starting gate area..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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