W9 Lion Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 2 hours ago, iainb said: I know what the rules are and I know the difference between SCB and FIM/SGP... I'm saying they should be the same, why aren't they the same? Because not every track will buy a clock? That the Start Marshal can start if the Ref can't? If that's the reason then it's quite frankly ridiculous! Why does British Speedway tie itself up in unnecessary rules that are left open to interpretation? If there had been a clock there last night NKI would have been at the tapes when it counted down to zero... but no, the paying public were deprived of a race containing the oppositions main man on the night because he couldn't see the stop watch on your wrist! Unbelievable! Two seasons ago I remember watch NKI get excluded for 2 mins in the Swedish at his home track that has a countdown clock. The stopwatch on my wrist is for my benefit so I am fair to all riders, A riders knows when they are short on time as they are told by the Start Marshal at Leicester. NKI choose to ignore this and the following instructions including the ref flashing the green light twice. The only person who deprved the paying public of the oppositons main man was the rider. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, W9 Lion said: Two seasons ago I remember watch NKI get excluded for 2 mins in the Swedish at his home track that has a countdown clock. The stopwatch on my wrist is for my benefit so I am fair to all riders, A riders knows when they are short on time as they are told by the Start Marshal at Leicester. NKI choose to ignore this and the following instructions including the ref flashing the green light twice. The only person who deprved the paying public of the oppositons main man was the rider. Why don't you want a clock on the centre that everybody can see? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W9 Lion Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, iainb said: Why don't you want a clock on the centre that everybody can see? I have never said I dont want a clock. I would welcome it. However, as I have previously posted it needs to be controlled by the ref. I have worked with them at other tracks and it makes life easier as did the second line on the startline that we had a few seasons ago where the rider had to put their front wheel spindal directly above it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 3 hours ago, Daniel Smith said: It was so your point is irrelevant. We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. That makes no sense. Either it was stopped for an unsatisfactory start, or it wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 4 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: That makes no sense. Either it was stopped for an unsatisfactory start, or it wasn't. It makes evwry sense Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: It makes evwry sense You said: "We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. " Therefore it sounds as if the Ref stopped it because the rider fell ... which means the Ref doesn't have any discretion, and should exclude whoever is deemed at fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 6 hours ago, False dawn said: No need for a clock. The 2 minute warning was sounded. An announcement was made A 60 second warning was announced. A 30 second warning was announced. NKI then emerged from the pit gate. He came to the gate at a reasonable speed but not with any sense of urgency. He then started a full gardening routine. This was permitted for a short time, but eventually the starting marshal called NKI forward to join the other 3 riders who had been ready to race for some time. NKI failed to come forward and the ref clearly felt that enough was enough. I have some sympathy for the view that this was not untypical. I had began to get a bit fed up with the delays at the start last night and generally, actually. But arriving at the start well within the 2 minutes and then gardening is one thing. Leaving the pits with less than 30 seconds to go and then expecting to take significant time preparing to race is taking the pee. And it wasn't just Leicester fans who cheered when NKI was excluded. Some reasonable points but NKI rode in heats 12, 13 and 15 so clearly could have had issues that needed attention including a likely tyre change, fuel, oil etc. Bearing in mind that the race wasn't deciding anything either points or aggregate etc, I think some time and common sense should have been applied and unfortunately Jarvis showed niether, having stated that Iversen was excluded for delaying the start the exclusion this action then delayed the meeting conclusion for another few minutes whilst his replacement got ready and appeared. It was all so pointless. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 18 minutes ago, Roger Jacobs said: You said: "We'll never know but had the rider not fallen the referee may have continued the heat. " Therefore it sounds as if the Ref stopped it because the rider fell ... which means the Ref doesn't have any discretion, and should exclude whoever is deemed at fault. Correct, it was stopped because a rider fell & the rider at fault from the tapes gained an advantage. The referee chose the unsatisfactory start option & called all four back. It's not hard to grasp, it is an option to the referee's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hunter Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 14 minutes ago, bigcatdiary said: Some reasonable points but NKI rode in heats 12, 13 and 15 so clearly could have had issues that needed attention including a likely tyre change, fuel, oil etc. Bearing in mind that the race wasn't deciding anything either points or aggregate etc, I think some time and common sense should have been applied and unfortunately Jarvis showed niether, having stated that Iversen was excluded for delaying the start the exclusion this action then delayed the meeting conclusion for another few minutes whilst his replacement got ready and appeared. It was all so pointless. The score does have a bearing on the aggregate point. They still have to race the second leg! 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shhalewhhale Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 Just now, Happy Hunter said: The score does have a bearing on the aggregate point. They still have to race the second leg! Bit of a foregone conclusion where that bonus point is going Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 (edited) 40 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: Correct, it was stopped because a rider fell & the rider at fault from the tapes gained an advantage. The referee chose the unsatisfactory start option & called all four back. It's not hard to grasp, it is an option to the referee's. So if it was an unsatisfactory start, Tarasenko should have been excluded for leaving the track as he returned into the pits, if it wasn't Sedgmen should have gone for being the primary cause of the stoppage Edited July 7, 2023 by iainb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 7, 2023 Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 1 hour ago, iainb said: So if it was an unsatisfactory start, Tarasenko should have been excluded for leaving the track as he returned into the pits, if it wasn't Sedgmen should have gone for being the primary cause of the stoppage I've already stated, Sedgmen went back to the pits because of the fall which allows all rider's to return. Tarasenko got lucky, had Sedgmen not needed to go back to the pits Tarasenko would have been excluded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 7, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 7, 2023 17 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said: I've already stated, Sedgmen went back to the pits because of the fall which allows all rider's to return. Tarasenko got lucky, had Sedgmen not needed to go back to the pits Tarasenko would have been excluded. Well... looking at the official SCB score card it looks like heat 6 wasn't called an unsatisfactory start as if it was, the rules state: "The Referee will give a warning to any rider deemed to have been the cause of or contributed to the unsatisfactory start. This will be communicated verbally by the Referee to the rider concerned via the start marshal or clerk of course before the race is started." According to the SCB card there were 3 starting offences 2 x Worrall & 1 x NKI. So if it wasn't an unsatisfactory start somebody should have been disqualified for being the primary cause of the stoppage. ... just trying to understand the rules 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 9, 2023 Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 (edited) On 7/7/2023 at 5:40 PM, Daniel Smith said: Correct, it was stopped because a rider fell & the rider at fault from the tapes gained an advantage. The referee chose the unsatisfactory start option & called all four back. It's not hard to grasp, it is an option to the referee's. I've just read Iainb's reply - it's all very confusing. Edited July 9, 2023 by Roger Jacobs 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 1 minute ago, Roger Jacobs said: Thanks for confirming it was declared an unsatisfactory start. I'm not sure it was though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted July 9, 2023 Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 Just now, iainb said: I'm not sure it was though Thanks - I've just edited my reply! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 9, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 9, 2023 Just now, Roger Jacobs said: Thanks - I've just edited my reply! One thing's for sure... confusion rules the day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigcatdiary Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 On 7/7/2023 at 3:03 PM, W9 Lion said: Two seasons ago I remember watch NKI get excluded for 2 mins in the Swedish at his home track that has a countdown clock. The stopwatch on my wrist is for my benefit so I am fair to all riders, A riders knows when they are short on time as they are told by the Start Marshal at Leicester. NKI choose to ignore this and the following instructions including the ref flashing the green light twice. The only person who deprved the paying public of the oppositons main man was the rider. Wayne Jarvis by his decision to exclude NKI delayed the meeting even more and made heat 15 a virtual non event bearing in mind FRICKE was unbeaten and Lawson had only been beaten once by NKI. Common sense should have been applied, supporters go to watch speedway not referees making poor decisions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hunter Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 Do you want to do away with the 2 minute rule then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted July 10, 2023 Report Share Posted July 10, 2023 1 minute ago, bigcatdiary said: Wayne Jarvis by his decision to exclude NKI delayed the meeting even more and made heat 15 a virtual non event bearing in mind FRICKE was unbeaten and Lawson had only been beaten once by NKI. Common sense should have been applied, supporters go to watch speedway not referees making poor decisions The overall consensus of opinion seems to differ from yours. Iversen only just beat the two minutes exclusion, and then proceeded to ignore the Referee and Start Marshall prompts to be ready to race. How long should he have been given? Another minute..two minutes...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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