Survival of The Premiership?

[Daniel Smith]

41 minutes ago, 25yearfan said:

I bet Chris Louis doesn't lose money running Ipswich! - He wouldn't do it if it lost money!

Ipswich are only in existence because of 1 guy & it ain't Louis 

[mikebv]

12 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Business owners are also told what days they can run on, and are at the mercy of their landlords, the weather and their fellow franchise owners.

Add in rising utility costs and you have a completely unsustainable business.

Most sports have reinvented themselves in some way or another over the decades. Speedway, however, tries to serve up the same old product without any positive evolution.

And most sports with TV coverage have prospered..

Speedway hasn't...

And why?

You simply can not sell a team sport concept in such a contrived nonsense way, and expect success..

And that is even to some of your most ardent followers, never mind those watching at home who you potentialy hope would become interested in what your are "selling"..

Too far gone now sadly, and anyway, the skill set clearly doesnt exist to give it the radical overhaul that should have happened post Covid..

A glorious "free hit" not taken up...

A great sport to watch, but packaged so badly in the UK, it is laughable...

[25yearfan]

2 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Ipswich are only in existence because of 1 guy & it ain't Louis 

Tru!(e) as many know who the money man is there who subsidises the club but still this helps Louis to run Ipswich speedway at a profit.

[Bald Bloke]

22 minutes ago, Daniel Smith said:

Ipswich are only in existence because of 1 guy & it ain't Louis 

They would exist, but not no where to the extent they are, i agree. The crowds are ok , but wouldn't pay for  their top 2..

[Baldyman]

A pro sport where there is no prize money for the clubs to re invest and improve,,,,, 

[cowboy cookie returns?]

8 minutes ago, Bald Bloke said:

They would exist, but not no where to the extent they are, i agree. The crowds are ok , but wouldn't pay for  their top 2..

And Ipswich probably gets the best average attendances in the uk during the regular season.

[Bald Bloke]

11 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

And Ipswich probably gets the best average attendances in the uk during the regular season.

I know. But wouldn't be where they are now without Guy.  It's so hard for  all teams that don't  have that kind of backing.

Edited July 24, 2023 by Bald Bloke

[Baldyman]

4 minutes ago, cowboy cookie returns? said:

And Ipswich probably gets the best average attendances in the uk during the regular season.

Take Guys money away and King would have been our number 1 for the last few years,,, crowds wouldn't be so big then,, 

[Najjer]

2 hours ago, Hawk127 said:

He is probably not happy with his investment this year and even though he probably runs a tight ship, the gamble has not paid the dividends he may well have hoped for. A shame really but it is what it is.

From a business point of view, it probably has. From what others have said crowds have been good, especially early in the season - just because results haven’t been great that isn’t always a bad thing. Teams that run away and win the league racking up 60+ points at home every week is a quick fire way to run up debt.

[Daniel Smith]

As fans the last thing needed is "my clubs better than yours". 

From top to bottom, league by league, the whole sport is on the brink of collapse. 

As many as 5 clubs could be gone come the winter. If these clubs do fold we could see a complete collapse of the sport. 

There's never going to be full agreement between promoters & sponsors on structure. We're in a position that there has to be 1 league. Some will want the big guns, some won't. Fixed race nights, some just can't etc.  

Should we link up with Poland? Hear me out. 

Each of our clubs are feeder clubs to the Ekstraliga. Over there they pay salaries so instead of us negotiating individual contract, our clubs pay a monthly rate to use their squad. Effectively their squads of 14 / 18 riders also become ours. We have to include 2 homegrown rider's in our 7 at all times. British teams can only include 1 of the the Ekstraliga rider's that featured in the Ekstraliga weekend fixture, other 4 from the squad. 

Example:

Wroclaw squad;

Laguta, Bewley, Woffinden, Janowski, Pawlicki, Kowalski, Chugunov, Fienhage, Panicz, Andrzejewski, Curzytek, Wiatroski, Rybak, Lopuski. 

King's Lynn;

Worrall & Nicholls full time

This shouldn't be mandatory for British clubs to assign a Polish club. If a club wants to run their own 7 they can.

We just need to find a solution to becoming more efficient, eradicate guests, doubling up etc. 

Just an idea. 

Edited July 24, 2023 by Daniel Smith

[truthsayer]

7 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

Should we link up with Poland? Hear me out. 

Each of our clubs are feeder clubs to the Ekstraliga. Over there they pay salaries so instead of us negotiating individual contract, our clubs pay a monthly rate to use their squad. Effectively their squads of 14 / 18 riders also become ours. We have to include 2 homegrown rider's in our 7 at all times. British teams can only include 1 of the the Ekstraliga rider's that featured in the Ekstraliga weekend fixture, other 4 from the squad. 

 

Why would the Ekstraliga be even remotely interested in this?

[HGould]

Quite simply the Sport is in its deepest hole since the split of the Legaues in the 1960's.

There have been peaks and troughs for almost 100 years but this current situation feels seismic.

A dwindling supporter base, a massive number of alternative attractions, a cost of living crisis that we are going to have to endure for at least the next few years and governance that is simply turning a blind eye and has dug a huge hole.

Putting Club loyalties aside, there are probably 5-6 profitable Clubs who can succeed based either on crawd attendence, large benefactors or large Sponsors or a combination of those.

There are some Clubs who are having to deal with Planning, Development and Stadium sale issues, irrespective of whether they are successful or not. Land Values only exacerbate this issue.

The sport needs a vision that the current Management Hierarchy seems to lack , some of that is intellectual and some is down to their understandable desire to protect their own.

We cannot compete with Poland or have any delusions of grandeur that we can. We cannot survive with 2 tiers of "professional" Clubs.

The solution is both basic, pragmatic and blindingly obvious.

An independent overseeing non partisan Leader

An Elite "professional" League of 6-8 Clubs who can work within set guidelines and structures

A second semi professional / amateur level with a League structure covering expenses and littl more with any income levels STRICTLY maintained (not like the NDL of the 2015-2019 period)

Other forms of motor cycle sport work very well on an amateur run basis , Banger / Stocks attracts big crowds on the basis that participants pay to enter and then share small prize money.

Speedway can promote itself still as a "niche sport", the model though will have to be more like the German / Czech smaller scale models than Poland or even Sweden.

Any one responding with club alliegances and putting Clubs first is I respectfully suggest completely missing the point!

 

 

[ch958]

an independent review is the only way forward imo but there'd be so many toys chucked out of prams it'd be like Black Friday at Hamleys. 

[truthsayer]

34 minutes ago, HGould said:

Any one responding with club alliegances and putting Clubs first is I respectfully suggest completely missing the point!

This is one of the biggest barriers to moving forward IMO.

To move forward the sport needs to get rid of the outdated concept of team speedway being the operating model.

And by doing that you alienate the few diehard fans still putting money into the sport. There's also no riding talent sitting out there to create a 'new' spectator product, so it makes it very difficult to reinvent the sport as a team game - hence the current rearranging the deckchairs.

In his excellent post, 'HGould' suggests there are 5-6 'profitable' clubs based on large 'benefactors or large Sponsors or a combination of those'.

This does not mean the club is profitable, it just means it is being kept afloat. It's not viable going forward and I'd suggest the number of actual profitable clubs (where the business can pay investors a return and/or reinvest in the business) is zero.

 

[Najjer]

10 hours ago, Baldyman said:

A pro sport where there is no prize money for the clubs to re invest and improve,,,,, 

That is a big problem - in speedway you are almost punished for being successful, spending out huge points money and costs before then having to rip that team apart to stay under a points limit. It really is a weird theory.

Formula1, Football etc there is huge financial incentive the higher up the table you finish 

Edited July 25, 2023 by Najjer

[truthsayer]

27 minutes ago, Najjer said:

That is a big problem - in speedway you are almost punished for being successful, spending out huge points money and costs before then having to rip that team apart to stay under a points limit. It really is a weird theory.

Formula1, Football etc there is huge financial incentive the higher up the table you finish 

For me, this just emphasises that speedway really is not a team sport, rather an individual one masquerading as a team sport.

It's true of almost every sport that the most successful teams have the biggest wage bills but the 'team' element of speedway is tiny when compared to football and Formula One (which is a true team sport).

The points limit is weird, but on the other hand it's the only way to make speedway remotely competitive as a team sport.

[hasta la vista]

9 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

As fans the last thing needed is "my clubs better than yours". 

From top to bottom, league by league, the whole sport is on the brink of collapse. 

As many as 5 clubs could be gone come the winter. If these clubs do fold we could see a complete collapse of the sport. 

There's never going to be full agreement between promoters & sponsors on structure. We're in a position that there has to be 1 league. Some will want the big guns, some won't. Fixed race nights, some just can't etc.  

Should we link up with Poland? Hear me out. 

Each of our clubs are feeder clubs to the Ekstraliga. Over there they pay salaries so instead of us negotiating individual contract, our clubs pay a monthly rate to use their squad. Effectively their squads of 14 / 18 riders also become ours. We have to include 2 homegrown rider's in our 7 at all times. British teams can only include 1 of the the Ekstraliga rider's that featured in the Ekstraliga weekend fixture, other 4 from the squad. 

Example:

Wroclaw squad;

Laguta, Bewley, Woffinden, Janowski, Pawlicki, Kowalski, Chugunov, Fienhage, Panicz, Andrzejewski, Curzytek, Wiatroski, Rybak, Lopuski. 

King's Lynn;

Worrall & Nicholls full time

This shouldn't be mandatory for British clubs to assign a Polish club. If a club wants to run their own 7 they can.

We just need to find a solution to becoming more efficient, eradicate guests, doubling up etc. 

Just an idea. 

I'm not sure where you get your info from as it's normally incorrect but literally no riders over here are salaried, they get paid per point. What they get is a lump signing on fee that is paid before the season and is meant to be used to pay for equipment ie engines. There is no ongoing monthly salary payment as you claim. Some riders also get signing on fees in the UK but they are much smaller obviously. 

[Daniel Smith]

7 minutes ago, hasta la vista said:

I'm not sure where you get your info from as it's normally incorrect but literally no riders over here are salaried, they get paid per point. What they get is a lump signing on fee that is paid before the season and is meant to be used to pay for equipment ie engines. There is no ongoing monthly salary payment as you claim. Some riders also get signing on fees in the UK but they are much smaller obviously. 

It's purely my opinion, an idea & with regards to the Ekstraliga rider's wages, not the British League.  

 

2 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Why would the Ekstraliga be even remotely interested in this?

It's an idea. To many ideas are the same year in year out. Quite a few ideas revolving around the kids, the next generation. Problem with that thinking is the product has to worthwhile for the accompanying adult too to be sustainable. 

We need to find a way to resource more rider's, with injuries currently, the league starts to quickly become farcical. 

The Ekstraliga being interested is very slim, almost zero, but €1000s coming back their way for something they don't actually own or use mid-week could be tempting & help build up our product for future years. 

British Speedway is just doing the same old same old year in year out. No improvement even attempted to save this sport. Just a consistent 'dumbing down' every season. 

[IainB]

9 hours ago, Daniel Smith said:

As fans the last thing needed is "my clubs better than yours". 

From top to bottom, league by league, the whole sport is on the brink of collapse. 

As many as 5 clubs could be gone come the winter. If these clubs do fold we could see a complete collapse of the sport. 

There's never going to be full agreement between promoters & sponsors on structure. We're in a position that there has to be 1 league. Some will want the big guns, some won't. Fixed race nights, some just can't etc.  

Should we link up with Poland? Hear me out. 

Each of our clubs are feeder clubs to the Ekstraliga. Over there they pay salaries so instead of us negotiating individual contract, our clubs pay a monthly rate to use their squad. Effectively their squads of 14 / 18 riders also become ours. We have to include 2 homegrown rider's in our 7 at all times. British teams can only include 1 of the the Ekstraliga rider's that featured in the Ekstraliga weekend fixture, other 4 from the squad. 

Example:

Wroclaw squad;

Laguta, Bewley, Woffinden, Janowski, Pawlicki, Kowalski, Chugunov, Fienhage, Panicz, Andrzejewski, Curzytek, Wiatroski, Rybak, Lopuski. 

King's Lynn;

Worrall & Nicholls full time

This shouldn't be mandatory for British clubs to assign a Polish club. If a club wants to run their own 7 they can.

We just need to find a solution to becoming more efficient, eradicate guests, doubling up etc. 

Just an idea. 

I suggested this years ago... some Football clubs operate like this also

[Speedtiger]

Sadly there’s no quick fix for Speedway as Mick Bratley said it’s been decades of mismanagement and decline. The simple fact is it’s the people who so called ‘run’ the sport who are responsible NOT the fans and sponsor’s who have walked away in there thousands or even the riders. The sport is now effectively bankrupt and the ‘good old days’ will never return. When the owners/promoters lose there shirts and some will, then they have only themselves to blame.