Survival of The Premiership?

[steve roberts]

5 minutes ago, Fromafar said:

You hit the nail on the head value for money is probably the major factor these days.15 min of action is not a lot.

Twenty heats during a meeting would be better value for money in my opinion,

[mikebv]

2 hours ago, SJA said:

I went to a recent IOW Event against the Rockets as its one of the teams I have supported over the last 40 years. Now, I appear I am the only one who thinks this but I found it a well run event but poor racing and I don't need all the other stuff they do. If I wanted that sort of event I would attend the Scout or Village Fete. I am aware that this will make me Public Enemy Number 1 with the Barry Bishop Happy Clappers. As for know how to operate within their budget I wouldn't be so sure of this having had a quick look at Companies House.

I think the big plus the IOW have in their favour is that they domt pretend to be something they are not...

They provide riders with a chance to race and earn...

But they dont make out that what they do has some bigger, wider, relevance, kudos, and meaning other than putting on authentic entertainment (varied), for their punters...

Speedway in the UK has built itself into some contrived, cobbled together 'plastic' version of a pro team sport, rather than actually being a bona fide one in the real sense of the phrase..

A very, very difficult starting proposition from which to grow themselves into a successful business I would think...

If you dont run any team sport that engenders that, fundamentally, so important emotional buy in, then you will really struggle to get cut through..

A fantastic raw product to sell..

Just so poorly packaged and sold..

Edited July 4, 2023 by mikebv

[Hawk127]

1 hour ago, SJA said:

I went to a recent IOW Event against the Rockets as its one of the teams I have supported over the last 40 years. Now, I appear I am the only one who thinks this but I found it a well run event but poor racing and I don't need all the other stuff they do. If I wanted that sort of event I would attend the Scout or Village Fete. I am aware that this will make me Public Enemy Number 1 with the Barry Bishop Happy Clappers. As for know how to operate within their budget I wouldn't be so sure of this having had a quick look at Companies House.

It depends on what you want from an evenings racing. The purists will only go to league meetings even though team riding is a thing of the past and you effectively have seven gate and go merchants. Others will go for the thrill of simply watching four riders on bikes with no brakes whilst some will be happy with individual meetings, 4TT and pairs etc and look at GP’s as the pinnacle of the sport.

Each league and format has its followers and it depends whether an attendee is an anorak or someone with a family who wants a fairly fluid array of racing etc without tractors being part of the entertainment. As it stands, anything new should be given a chance and I would rather go to a meeting that has a mixed format with say short track, NDL competition and perhaps side cars rather than take it or leave it fifteen races over two plus hours and nowt else.

You are entitled to your opinion and it is the sort of feedback that promoters should be interested in and I am sure the IOW will not lose sleep over it. They like many are trying to run/provide entertainment so you cannot knock them for what works on their patch but may not work in say Manchester or Birmingham.

As an aside your Rockets when run by Len Silver out of Rayleigh did it all and put on meetings even when it rained, he just used tons of saw dust. A legend in speedway if ever you wanted someone who knew how to entertain before the nutters took control of the asylum.

[SJA]

7 minutes ago, Hawk127 said:

It depends on what you want from an evenings racing. The purists will only go to league meetings even though team riding is a thing of the past and you effectively have seven gate and go merchants. Others will go for the thrill of simply watching four riders on bikes with no brakes whilst some will be happy with individual meetings, 4TT and pairs etc and look at GP’s as the pinnacle of the sport.

Each league and format has its followers and it depends whether an attendee is an anorak or someone with a family who wants a fairly fluid array of racing etc without tractors being part of the entertainment. As it stands, anything new should be given a chance and I would rather go to a meeting that has a mixed format with say short track, NDL competition and perhaps side cars rather than take it or leave it fifteen races over two plus hours and nowt else.

You are entitled to your opinion and it is the sort of feedback that promoters should be interested in and I am sure the IOW will not lose sleep over it. They like many are trying to run/provide entertainment so you cannot knock them for what works on their patch but may not work in say Manchester or Birmingham.

As an aside your Rockets when run by Len Silver out of Rayleigh did it all and put on meetings even when it rained, he just used tons of saw dust. A legend in speedway if ever you wanted someone who knew how to entertain before the nutters took control of the asylum.

Always the West London Clubs before East, and Rye House as the London clubs closed down. 

[Bagpuss]

For those who don't listen to the @RoundTheBoardsPodcast podcast each week the latest episode has some excellent discussion and ideas from former Coventry rider Lee Coleman about moving speedway forward in the UK and making it a better customer experience, and he has submitted a document to the SCB to that effect. Well worth a listen. 

https://podcast.sport-social.co.uk/podcast/round-the-boards-the-speedway-podcast/

Edited July 4, 2023 by Bagpuss

[bruno]

I'm getting the impression every time there's another speedway shambles a few more walk away even the die hards seem to be getting fed up

[GeneralMelchett]

11 hours ago, Bagpuss said:

For those who don't listen to the @RoundTheBoardsPodcast podcast each week the latest episode has some excellent discussion and ideas from former Coventry rider Lee Coleman about moving speedway forward in the UK and making it a better customer experience, and he has submitted a document to the SCB to that effect. Well worth a listen. 

https://podcast.sport-social.co.uk/podcast/round-the-boards-the-speedway-podcast/

Will give that a try - lets hope the grey suits listen to new ideas then!

[BluPanther]

Sitting/standing around for over two hours to watch 15 mins of ''action'' is just not acceptable to most people, especially in this digital age...

[steve roberts]

41 minutes ago, BluPanther said:

Sitting/standing around for over two hours to watch 15 mins of ''action'' is just not acceptable to most people, especially in this digital age...

...I would be interested to know how much "action" actually takes place during an average football match with all the time wasting, stoppages and "dead ball" situations?

Edited July 5, 2023 by steve roberts

[truthsayer]

35 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I would be interested to know how much "action" actually takes place during an average football match with all the time wasting, stoppages and "dead ball" situations?

Whataboutery isn't really going to help the situation (even though the answer is 'much higher than speedway').

It's not just standing around. It's standing around in a dilapidated stadium, among an octogenarian audience, listening to bad dad music over a poor quality PA. It's hard to imagine many people coming to a speedway meeting for the first time and thinking 'hey, this is my tribe'. 

[tellboy]

35 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I would be interested to know how much "action" actually takes place during an average football match with all the time wasting, stoppages and "dead ball" situations?

Less than 60 minutes the ball is actually in play.And that doesn't include the boring crap of passing it around at the back and then back to the keeper etc.Actual action would probably be about 20-30 mins imo.

[Teromaafan]

41 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

...I would be interested to know how much "action" actually takes place during an average football match with all the time wasting, stoppages and "dead ball" situations?

Studies have apparently been carried out on this. On average, the ball is ‘in play’ between 60 and 70 minutes per match. This was with a view to consider the basketball approach where the clock stops when the ball is dead/out of play.
On a speedway front, very few people would be making reference to the 15 minutes of racing if meetings could be consistently wrapped up (without frills) in 90 minutes.

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, truthsayer said:

Whataboutery isn't really going to help the situation (even though the answer is 'much higher than speedway').

It's not just standing around. It's standing around in a dilapidated stadium, among an octogenarian audience, listening to bad dad music over a poor quality PA. It's hard to imagine many people coming to a speedway meeting for the first time and thinking 'hey, this is my tribe'. 

As regards stadiums, in particular, is that many promotions don't own them and therefore have very little control over their general condition. I used to enjoy my visits to Berwick Speedway which was owned then/now by the football club but I don't recall it being "luxurious" by any means unless it's been upgraded? When Cowley Stadium was aquired by the GRA after the collapse of Northern Sports it was pretty much a state of the art facility. The GRA, however, allowed it to deteriorate and it's a question I put to one of their represenatives at the time who I was in communication with in that they were running it down with a view of selling it off which they strenously denied but was proved correct. Thankfully it was saved by the present consortium with massive support from the local council and the facility by all accounts is first class and a credit to all those involved.

Edited July 6, 2023 by steve roberts

[steve roberts]

7 hours ago, Teromaafan said:

Studies have apparently been carried out on this. On average, the ball is ‘in play’ between 60 and 70 minutes per match. This was with a view to consider the basketball approach where the clock stops when the ball is dead/out of play.
On a speedway front, very few people would be making reference to the 15 minutes of racing if meetings could be consistently wrapped up (without frills) in 90 minutes.

I recall that Ice Hockey has/had the same approach?

[truthsayer]

53 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

As regards stadiums, in particular, is that many promotions don't own them and therefore have very little control over their general condition. I used to enjoy my visits to Berwick Speedway which was owned then/now by the football club but I don't recall it being "luxurious" by any means unless it's been upgraded? When Cowley Stadium was aquired by the GRA after the collapse of Northern Sports it was pretty much a state of the art facility. The GRA, however, allowed it to deteriorate and it's a question I put to one of their represenatives at the time who I was in communication with in that they were running it down with a view of selling it off which they strenously denied but was proved correct. Thankfully it was saved by the present consortium with massive support from the local council and the facility by all accounts is first class and a credit to all those involved.

Who owns the stadium is of no relevance to the customer, who doesn't care who owns the place.

I understand and agree with what you say, but it is irrelevant to the paying punter. Stadia, or at least facilities, will be the death of British speedway as we know it.

[steve roberts]

30 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Who owns the stadium is of no relevance to the customer, who doesn't care who owns the place.

I understand and agree with what you say, but it is irrelevant to the paying punter. Stadia, or at least facilities, will be the death of British speedway as we know it.

Granted but that's the reality and the situation is unlikely to change unfortunately hence the current plight. When Hackney was upgraded and became a state of the art stadium it still didn't attract the punters in any great numbers and soon went into receivership and was eventually demolished like other well appointed stadiums like Wimbledon and Coventry for example for differing reasons.

Edited July 6, 2023 by steve roberts

[truthsayer]

31 minutes ago, steve roberts said:

Granted but that's the reality and the situation is unlikely to change unfortunately hence the current plight. 

Kinda. I mean just because you're a tenant doesn't mean you can't invest in your home.

If speedway attracted big enough crowds, it would be in the interest of the promoter to invest in the stadium facilities as long as they had a long term lease.

Reality is it doesn't and they don't so of course facilities are going to be ignored.

It's a vicious cycle. A speedway team needs to lease their venue for around 25-30 nights a year. That's a pretty poor occupancy rate for any stadium owner and not in any way a viable business.

[Najjer]

1 hour ago, truthsayer said:

Who owns the stadium is of no relevance to the customer, who doesn't care who owns the place.

I understand and agree with what you say, but it is irrelevant to the paying punter. Stadia, or at least facilities, will be the death of British speedway as we know it.

If there is one thing this thread has proven, is there isn’t just one problem to address as the “death of UK speedway” - it shows there are actually quite a lot of serious issues to resolve. There are some big questions and big problems which need some big answers. Hopefully some promotors will of read this thread and come the AGM at the end of this year it won’t just be a case of “business as usual, same again!”

On a side note, as you’ve mentioned stadiums - Reading was an absolute dump and falling apart…. But weirdly was one of my favourite places to visit as a speedway fan. As a first timer however as you say, you’d of thought you had gone back in time about 20/30 years!

[truthsayer]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

If there is one thing this thread has proven, is there isn’t just one problem to address as the “death of UK speedway” - it shows there are actually quite a lot of serious issues to resolve. There are some big questions and big problems which need some big answers. Hopefully some promotors will of read this thread and come the AGM at the end of this year it won’t just be a case of “business as usual, same again!”

On a side note, as you’ve mentioned stadiums - Reading was an absolute dump and falling apart…. But weirdly was one of my favourite places to visit as a speedway fan. As a first timer however as you say, you’d of thought you had gone back in time about 20/30 years!

The biggest issue we have with that is that all promoters have different challenges and different priorities, so 'business as usual' and short term thinking will always win.

Lack of tracks and a lack of riders (especially affordable ones) will kill speedway as a viable spectator sport in this country. Costs are going up and income is going down and no amount of tweaking the format will really change that. There's no real solution, I fear. Times change and tastes change and I think speedway was of its time as a spectator team sport.

[Daniel Smith]

13 hours ago, steve roberts said:

...I would be interested to know how much "action" actually takes place during an average football match with all the time wasting, stoppages and "dead ball" situations?

 

12 hours ago, tellboy said:

Less than 60 minutes the ball is actually in play.And that doesn't include the boring crap of passing it around at the back and then back to the keeper etc.Actual action would probably be about 20-30 mins imo.

Point being missed here with comparison. 

Around 60mins of actual playing time but even with throw in's, goal kicks, free kicks, substitutions there's still something for the fans to see. Even when the ball is 'out of play' the tactical game continues. You still get to see 90-100mins of something, all the players. 

With Speedway, after every heat, to the fans the meeting is totally dead.