StarBoy Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer. I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dog Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 minute ago, The Dog said: Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve roberts Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 Just now, Daniel Smith said: King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. I seem to recall that Arena Essex (as they were once called) tried a similar thing some years back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthsayer Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 15 minutes ago, The Dog said: Remember at Coventry suggesting to Mick Horton that he should give a load of free tickets to local businesses, clubs, etc in the hope that they would enjoy it and want to come back. He argued it would cost too much and he'd lose money on those people. But there not coming in the first place so your losing nothing bar the printing of the tickets! Wouldn't have it, couldn't see the potential opportunity... Only really works if you have a product people would want to go back to... I live 10 minutes from a speedway track and haven't been for 10 years. If someone gave me free tickets I might go if I was bored and the weather was nice, but even for free I doubt I'd rush back. I did try going a few times when I moved to the area but honestly it was just dragging out and old hat. Don't think I would spend a fiver on it, let alone £50 for the three of us. Now I follow on TV and internet. GPs are a good product (although also slightly in decline) but league racing is just dire. Speedway's an individual sport. Its future can only be in attracting individuals to come along and participate. The money competitors put into the sport is what could keep it alive, spectator numbers are so low as to almost be irrelevant. Team speedway can survive, but not by importing expensive ingredients to perform in front of tiny spectator numbers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Najjer Posted July 4, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 52 minutes ago, StarBoy said: For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer. I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds... There is certainly some legs in this - what do promotors nowadays actually do to ‘promote’ other than sticking a post on their own Facebook page, which is seen by only speedway fans? Years ago, Somerset used tonne great at it. There was various points through the summer when bikes were set up on the sea front, tickets handed out (these can be easily tracked with names and addresses when handed out to avoid the issues above about them getting into the wrong hands) and we had some huge crowds for the first times that Somerset were featured on the TV. For clubs that are generating their income via car parks, programmes, food and drink outlets too, if you’ve given away a free admission ticket then you are getting almost free money on these extra outlets that you wouldn’t of been getting previously. For a long time, the UK’s operating model has been fewer fans year after year so they bump the price up - instead of trying to get old fans back and increasing people attending. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, StarBoy said: For me, the stumbling block to getting more fans through the gate (which is the only way clubs will survive is the entrance fee). £22 to watch 15 minutes of actual "racing" just doesn't offer value for money for the paying customer. I will continue to use Poland as a comparison, which I understand the cost of living is currently lower. £10-£15 is a much better value for proposition for the paying customer and yes I'm aware sponsors front up a lot £, but would the sponsors do that if the clubs didn't get fans bums on seats? I don't understand why clubs can't trial it for 1 meeting, reducing the entrance fee to see if it attracts more crowd through the gate. Take King's Lynn Vs Ipswich coming up in August, that will be Lynn's biggest gate of the year, but if a ticket cost £15 for example imagine how many more fans might be enticed. The same for any derby match so to speak If the trial doesn't work at least you've chose a meeting where you're already expecting your highest gate and haven't really lost out compared to other meetings where you have your lowest crowds... The Poles maybe paying £15 each but when the salary is only half of the UK equivalent that is effectively like charging £30 £22 doesn't look so steep then does it.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 hours ago, mikebv said: The sport wont ever "reset", and it wont ever allow outside guidance and administration.. As, if it wanted to, it would have done so many, many years ago given the obvious flaws in its operating model.. It was very different times and well before my time... but wasn't Speedway in the UK on it's arse before back in the late 50's early 60's after a period of huge post war crowds? Weren't they down to about 10 or 12 clubs and some Lord carried out a report into the problems and the whole sport was reset and restructured and this led to the boom of the 70's. Now all of that could be completely wrong, others on here will know exactly what happened, I'm just piecing together bits I've remembered from reading the SS from years ago that I wasn't really that interested in, but I do believe there has been some kind of reset before, but like I said very different times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarBoy Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 7 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: The Poles maybe paying £15 each but when the salary is only half of the UK equivalent that is effectively like charging £30 £22 doesn't look so steep then does it.... If you actually follow international economics, you would see that Poland is due to overtake the UK in the next few years. And in response to your comment, Poland isn't suffering as much of a financial crisis as the UK. Housing prices are reasonable, inflation is low, interest rates are low etc etc the list goes on. Therefore, more disposable income available. Here, people have to make a choice - eat, bills etc - or go to speedway. Theres only one winner. All I'm saying is if entrance fees are lower, at least you're making an effort and showing initiative to try and get more fans in. Take Lynn for example, you pay £22 entrance, you're then obliged to pay £2 if you want to sit and another £3 if you wish for a programme. £27 before you've even considered a drink or something to eat... that doesn't scream value for money to me. You're effectively paying £2 a race... Which to me does look steep. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellevueace Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. I remember when ice hockey started in the arena, Manchester had the biggest crowds by far normally between 12,000- 20,000, i was talking about this with John Perrin and he said it wont last, the majority of the crowd are there thanks to free tickets to promotes the sport, a couple of seasons later the free ticket scheme was pulled and the club went bust as it wasnt viable, after a few years they did reform but at Altrincham ice rink with an average attendance of around 1,400. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralMelchett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, steve roberts said: I seem to recall that Arena Essex (as they were once called) tried a similar thing some years back? as Lakeside we did a free televised meeting as well - huge attendance - sadly most never came back! To be fair to Stan (and Jon Cook) they tried things - sadly both lost to speedway and of course we sadly lost Jon Cook a while back - Duggo is in the US now and I dont think he would ever contemplate promoting again! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrickett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 Some very interesting thoughts and the six-man team idea was mooted five or so years ago. For me the main sticking points are costs, costs and more costs. It costs a fortune to get started in speedway, a big gamble for any aspiring rider, and the ongoing finances are just as bad. Who pays? The fans…£22 (plus £3 car parking and £3 prog) is tooooo much for what you get. That’s why the demographic ain’t getting any younger because people just can’t afford it in the current climate. If me and the missus go to Owlerton it’s £50 for 15 minutes of racing, much of which is processional to boot, having to watch in what have become awful facilities. Not nearly worth it. That takes me to one big league…does anyone really think the Premiership promoters will agree to that and in doing so significantly dilute their TV income? The riders will also pack in in their droves because they’ll only have one team, where at the mo most have their costs geared to two, which in itself is a MASSIVE turn off for most fans. So what’s the solution? That’s up to the BSPL bumpkins I’m afraid…the ones who following last year’s PR disasters thought that the best way forward was to keep things as they are and introduce transponders for more accurate times. Don’t hold your breath… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthsayer Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 minute ago, paulrickett said: That takes me to one big league…does anyone really think the Premiership promoters will agree to that and in doing so significantly dilute their TV income? Is there actually a TV income? I would be staggered if speedway gets an income from TV rights. Most minority sports actually pay to be on TV these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralMelchett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 minute ago, truthsayer said: Is there actually a TV income? I would be staggered if speedway gets an income from TV rights. Most minority sports actually pay to be on TV these days. I can only speak from the old sky contract - I know the payment was often only a contribution to the lost revenues as so many fans stayed away so it was never an earner and i know one former promoter hated having sky in town as it meant takings were down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 12 hours ago, Najjer said: It might have been said, but hasn’t been actioned that’s for sure. As I said, it isn’t going to solve every issue but it’ll certainly be a good start. The issue of generating more riders isn’t required completely - it’s a case of dispersing and making better use of the ones we have, as well as hoping to bring in the likes of Woffinden, Laguta etc on a shared basis - whilst then limiting the use of guests. Crowd levels and Sponsorship in GB make it very hard to have a decent level of Top riders in Premiership.Top Riders are just too expensive IMO.Look at Admission prices just now ,fans are just not turning up.Other bike sports in UK are doing alright but not speedway,tells you something .IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrickett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 minute ago, GeneralMelchett said: I can only speak from the old sky contract - I know the payment was often only a contribution to the lost revenues as so many fans stayed away so it was never an earner and i know one former promoter hated having sky in town as it meant takings were down Yes there is. A new deal was agreed a couple of years ago. Shared amongst five promoters, which makes it a vital income stream…for now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: King's Lynn tried this one year in the 2nd tier & half of the tickets found there way in to the hands of those already attending or at least attended Speedway before & happy to attend for the freebie. The majority of the rest didn't ever get used. The idea is ok in principle but as with what happened with King's Lynn, that would be what Horton meant by losing money. It's not from potential new supporters, it's from the existing taking the freebie. If the idea is to get extra people into the track then they need to work with a very large employee in the area. e.g Council / NHS / Union / car plant etc. - Offer all the staff reduced price price tickets (e.g £10 or £12) every meeting on ideally a place like standing only where they can upsell if they choose to. Maybe in return the company offers sponsorship in the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrickett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 6 minutes ago, Fromafar said: Crowd levels and Sponsorship in GB make it very hard to have a decent level of Top riders in Premiership.Top Riders are just too expensive IMO.Look at Admission prices just now ,fans are just not turning up.Other bike sports in UK are doing alright but not speedway,tells you something .IMO Absolutely. Speedway is the BEST motorsport but in the UK it’s the worst run. It’s great to see the big kids racing over here…but the sport can’t afford to keep paying what it is to entice them. It is ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Byker Biker Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 2 hours ago, steve roberts said: I seem to recall that Arena Essex (as they were once called) tried a similar thing some years back? Sheffield too 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulrickett Posted July 4, 2023 Report Share Posted July 4, 2023 4 minutes ago, Phil said: If the idea is to get extra people into the track then they need to work with a very large employee in the area. e.g Council / NHS / Union / car plant etc. - Offer all the staff reduced price price tickets (e.g £10 or £12) every meeting on ideally a place like standing only where they can upsell if they choose to. Maybe in return the company offers sponsorship in the future. They did this at Sheffield in 2019 and managed to get Unison involved, which was a massive thing. £10 a ticket through their social group and initially they came in droves…but as the season progressed it dwindled to hardly any. That should tell you something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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