Survival of The Premiership?

[Najjer]

I had toyed with whether this was better placed in the general discussion thread and a slightly different title tailored more towards just general UK speedway, but I think actually the survival of UK speedway as we know it hinges on the survival of the Premiership itself.

We already know that not only the long term but short term and immediate futures of Wolves, Peterborough and Kings Lynn are all uncertain… We normally get to the AGM every year and look for decisions made towards the running and long term future of the sport… So how can the Premiership survive? 
 

Here’s my take:

1) All efforts has to be made to keep the 3 mentioned clubs running. Easier said than done and the ball isn’t in their court so to speak for Peterborough and Wolves with regards land usage, whereas Kings Lynn just need a new promoter/owner. 

2) We need more teams and more variety in the league. This means actively encouraging the likes of Poole, Glasgow, Oxford etc back into the Premiership. In my opinion a top division of 8 teams should be a minimum. More on that below at point 3….

In my opinion, talk of one big league joining up with the Championship simply won’t work. Lack of riders and complete drop in standard with the existing Premiership sides would be a sure fire way to close the sport down completely. There is already a lack of riders at both levels of the sport but even more so in the Championship. This was proven by the failure of Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Birmingham etc failing to name a team of 7 riders until either the last minute of the season or all together when they started the year with riders injured. 

3) Additional night of fixed race nights - Add Wednesday into the mix. This absolutely goes head to head with Denmark but actually affects very few riders, especially if fixtures are planned accordingly. This for a number of years has been a massive problem for the UK in that they botched the fixture list up. The likes of Poole and Oxford could continue to run their home matches on Wednesdays and have their away matches on Monday or Thursday. Their home matches could be arranged to ensure riders were available.

4) 6 man teams - This immediately frees up at least 7 riders from this years Premiership. Teams to be comprised of 5 standard riders and 1 British junior (I hate the term rising star). Naturally by having less riders per team this will mean that each rider gets more rides so means they earn more money, whilst less travel money is paid by the team. Everybody is a winner! 
I absolutely hate the guest ruling. They are way too many guests being used nowadays which brings discredit to the sport and competition in general. If any rider is missing then they are replaced by rider replacement. Only when a second rider is then missing can a guest be sourced. By having less riders per team, this should immediately reduce the risk of needing guests.
Further to that, it has been discussed previously but I would welcome a shared spot for the no.1 position. I will use the scenario where a team could sign Artem Laguta and Tai Woffinden to share one team spot meaning it saves on logistics for the rider not having to do a full season and again, reducing the chances of riders going missing.

5) The stumbling block to all of the above is the chances of the Championship then becoming either disbanded or severely impacted as we currently know it. They themselves would have less teams as several move up but should for 1 season only reduce their points limit. This would be done to lower the standard and used as a way of preventing doubling up as it currently is.

Doubling up needs to be reduced and a bridge in standard to the Premiership. Teams should have either 5 or 6 riders, with reduced teams and riders again increasing rider availability. Riders like Sam Masters, Benjamin Basso etc should really be forced out with doubling up only afforded to British riders to the likes of Danny King, Steve Worrall, Charles Wright, assuming their averages then fit. 

 

————

To summarise…..

Premiership:
- Minimum of 8 teams
- 6 man teams (including British junior)
- Race format to mean riders getting more rides
- Race nights on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday
- Shared no.1 spots for 2 riders

Championship:
- Minimum of 8 teams
- 5/6 man teams (including British junior)
- Race format to mean riders getting more rides
- Race nights on Friday, Saturday and Sunday
- No doubling up for foreign riders 
 

I haven’t gone to the extent to work out what the points limit should be, but the Championship would have to be reduced to make it more affordable for the lesser sides and ensure there is enough riders to go round. Riders will be riding more than before with more fixtures in the Premiership and more rides per match.

This is only scratching the surface but should in my view be a starting point to not just look at reducing costs, but increase the viewing quality for the fan and make speedway begin to prosper again. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Najjer

[truthsayer]

It's still just shuffling the deckchairs.

While I don't disagree with much of what you say, I don't see how that would attract enough fans and/or save enough costs to make running a speedway club financially viable.

I don't see how it will help create more speedway riders (possibly the biggest challenge facing speedway as a spectator sport) or address the issue of venues closing and being sold for development.

[Baldyman]

Same old,,,, been all said before 

[Bagpuss]

1 hour ago, Baldyman said:

Same old,,,, been all said before 

Not really, there are some fresh views in there and some good reasoning for them. What's your suggestion out of interest? 

[Baldyman]

6 rider teams,, no doubling for foreigners,,, it's all been said before,,,, what's new? Shared number 1,, been mentioned before,,, more teams,,,, well yeah 

 

Is it about dragging the sport on for a bit longer till all the oldies are dead,,, or is it about finding new ways to find new fans? Let's be honest the majority of speedway fans are probably over 50,,,in fact I would say probably over 60,,, so the majority of remaining fans will be dead soon,,, what then? 

As for me,, hardly go at all anymore,, like thousands and thousands before me. Can I be tempted back,,, yes I would think so,, but I don't think the put forward suggestions would do it,,,, bringing some integrity back into the sport would help,, 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Baldyman

[Toady]

1 hour ago, truthsayer said:

It's still just shuffling the deckchairs.

While I don't disagree with much of what you say, I don't see how that would attract enough fans and/or save enough costs to make running a speedway club financially viable.

I don't see how it will help create more speedway riders (possibly the biggest challenge facing speedway as a spectator sport) or address the issue of venues closing and being sold for development.

Agreed with more venues in the firing line and even those in the middle of countryside can soon be swallowed up so people I suggest you enjoy what you have now as it could soon be gone

[Najjer]

27 minutes ago, Baldyman said:

6 rider teams,, no doubling for foreigners,,, it's all been said before,,,, what's new? Shared number 1,, been mentioned before,,, more teams,,,, well yeah 

 

 

It might have been said, but hasn’t been actioned that’s for sure. As I said, it isn’t going to solve every issue but it’ll certainly be a good start.

The issue of generating more riders isn’t required completely - it’s a case of dispersing and making better use of the ones we have, as well as hoping to bring in the likes of Woffinden, Laguta etc on a shared basis - whilst then limiting the use of guests.

[Baldyman]

Let's look at another motorsports,,, touring cars,, formula 1 and others,,, there was a big push a few years ago with things like getting people who played computer games to try car racing and stuff,, think it was Britain next top racing driver,, or something like that,, there was a whole program for them to start at the bottom and work their way up,,, but let's concentrate on speedway,,,,, it needs more young riders,, they need to be able to get free track time on free equipment,, okay that would need a sponsor to put money up,, but other sports manage,,, me personally I would be trying to attract some young muslim lads and some young Chinese lads or lasses,,,, these communities follow and support all their young sports people,,, just look at snooker in China now,, and the millions that now follow it because a Chinese lad made good,,,,each club has thousands of new fans possibly waiting in the wings If we can un earth some talent from those community. 

 

It's also about having an evening out where you go home feeling entertained,,, it's been said thousands of times before,,, but alot of people want more for their money,,,, not just 15 races,, where you may see a couple of good ones,, or maybe not,,, 5 mins of watching a tractor going round every 15 mins whilst listening to the greatest hits of the 70s,,, don't cut it in modern life. 

Edited July 3, 2023 by Baldyman

[Goldhawk]

Agree with most of first post. A decent Premiership 8 + teams a must next year . Get top flight TO A 1 a priority and sport then is going back n right direction. Looks like Wolves nailed on for closure. If other two can continue and Glasgow - Poole - Oxford and Redcar ? included  we have 10 teams. money a factor in this of course, can Sports Insure up the level next year one wonders. Promising news on Rye coming back to Championship next year. could Kent be brought back with effort ??

[truthsayer]

To me, two main issues around the survival of speedway: lack of venues and lack of riders (they are linked).

Venues is tough. Can't see how a venue operating in a niche one night a week for seven months a year can be viable. So venues need to be multi-use, probably collaborating with other sports (motor and other) who are in similar situations.

Riders needs to be about making speedway an attractive hobby/participation sport. It should be an inexpensive form of motorsport but it is incredibly inaccessible, with riders having to drive for hours to ride for a few minutes. A grassroots programme, probably not linked to promotors is needed. Different classes of bikes (classic should be popular based on demographic) and even electric to open up more venues and practice options. There is no real club racing scene or industry to speedway in the way there is with other forms of motorsport, possibly because it is an individual sport masquerading as a team sport.

Of course, it may just be that speedway was of its time and will die. That's the reality and I personally think it will be gone at any kind of professional level in the UK in three years and gone completely in 15. It won't be the only sport to die, but the lack of venues will strangle the last gasps of breath from its lungs.

[bloom89]

It’s ok saying get Poole, Glasgow and Oxford to move up but with no consideration for the current championship? Why should that suffer because the premiership is a joke. 
 

I’d go to 5 man teams and one big league and rider 5 has to be British and under 23. Do a grading system for the likes of Doyle and Bewley etc so teams can only sign one. Or if we can’t afford them then they don’t ride here the actual future of British speedway if there is one is mightily more important than attracting a couple of gp riders back here. Denmark have 5 man teams I think. Go to one big league and hopefully stop all this doubling up once and for all… if the riders can’t afford to just do one league either don’t ride here or go get a job. 

[pleasureboy60]

What will eventually kill speedway is the number of tracks closing down at such a fast rate, plus the fact that it's a sport stuck in a timewarp that needed rejuvenation years ago.

Beyond help now and will be dead and gone within 5 years. 

[The Dog]

9 hours ago, Najjer said:

I had toyed with whether this was better placed in the general discussion thread and a slightly different title tailored more towards just general UK speedway, but I think actually the survival of UK speedway as we know it hinges on the survival of the Premiership itself.

We already know that not only the long term but short term and immediate futures of Wolves, Peterborough and Kings Lynn are all uncertain… We normally get to the AGM every year and look for decisions made towards the running and long term future of the sport… So how can the Premiership survive? 
 

Here’s my take:

1) All efforts has to be made to keep the 3 mentioned clubs running. Easier said than done and the ball isn’t in their court so to speak for Peterborough and Wolves with regards land usage, whereas Kings Lynn just need a new promoter/owner. 

2) We need more teams and more variety in the league. This means actively encouraging the likes of Poole, Glasgow, Oxford etc back into the Premiership. In my opinion a top division of 8 teams should be a minimum. More on that below at point 3….

In my opinion, talk of one big league joining up with the Championship simply won’t work. Lack of riders and complete drop in standard with the existing Premiership sides would be a sure fire way to close the sport down completely. There is already a lack of riders at both levels of the sport but even more so in the Championship. This was proven by the failure of Plymouth, Scunthorpe, Birmingham etc failing to name a team of 7 riders until either the last minute of the season or all together when they started the year with riders injured. 

3) Additional night of fixed race nights - Add Wednesday into the mix. This absolutely goes head to head with Denmark but actually affects very few riders, especially if fixtures are planned accordingly. This for a number of years has been a massive problem for the UK in that they botched the fixture list up. The likes of Poole and Oxford could continue to run their home matches on Wednesdays and have their away matches on Monday or Thursday. Their home matches could be arranged to ensure riders were available.

4) 6 man teams - This immediately frees up at least 7 riders from this years Premiership. Teams to be comprised of 5 standard riders and 1 British junior (I hate the term rising star). Naturally by having less riders per team this will mean that each rider gets more rides so means they earn more money, whilst less travel money is paid by the team. Everybody is a winner! 
I absolutely hate the guest ruling. They are way too many guests being used nowadays which brings discredit to the sport and competition in general. If any rider is missing then they are replaced by rider replacement. Only when a second rider is then missing can a guest be sourced. By having less riders per team, this should immediately reduce the risk of needing guests.
Further to that, it has been discussed previously but I would welcome a shared spot for the no.1 position. I will use the scenario where a team could sign Artem Laguta and Tai Woffinden to share one team spot meaning it saves on logistics for the rider not having to do a full season and again, reducing the chances of riders going missing.

5) The stumbling block to all of the above is the chances of the Championship then becoming either disbanded or severely impacted as we currently know it. They themselves would have less teams as several move up but should for 1 season only reduce their points limit. This would be done to lower the standard and used as a way of preventing doubling up as it currently is.

Doubling up needs to be reduced and a bridge in standard to the Premiership. Teams should have either 5 or 6 riders, with reduced teams and riders again increasing rider availability. Riders like Sam Masters, Benjamin Basso etc should really be forced out with doubling up only afforded to British riders to the likes of Danny King, Steve Worrall, Charles Wright, assuming their averages then fit. 

 

————

To summarise…..

Premiership:
- Minimum of 8 teams
- 6 man teams (including British junior)
- Race format to mean riders getting more rides
- Race nights on Monday, Wednesday and Thursday
- Shared no.1 spots for 2 riders

Championship:
- Minimum of 8 teams
- 5/6 man teams (including British junior)
- Race format to mean riders getting more rides
- Race nights on Friday, Saturday and Sunday
- No doubling up for foreign riders 
 

I haven’t gone to the extent to work out what the points limit should be, but the Championship would have to be reduced to make it more affordable for the lesser sides and ensure there is enough riders to go round. Riders will be riding more than before with more fixtures in the Premiership and more rides per match.

This is only scratching the surface but should in my view be a starting point to not just look at reducing costs, but increase the viewing quality for the fan and make speedway begin to prosper again. 

A lot of good ideas here being thrown around, regarding averages, I'd like to see it go back to a 50ish point average purely so that if you can afford the likes of Emil, Doyley, Laguta etc, you don't have to fill the rest of the team with 4-5 pointers. It just gives you the option to build a decent team as most get strangled when a rider improves and then gets dumped because the numbers don't add up. 

[truthsayer]

1 hour ago, Najjer said:

 

The issue of generating more riders isn’t required completely 

Except it is. The lifeblood of any sport is its grassroots competitors. They create an industry and help feed the professional ranks. Professional speedway has a real dearth of talent, with many top names having competed for over 30 years. While this in itself is not a major problem, it's not in a healthy place. I'd argue that speedway needs to drop its professional status and focus on becoming a sport for competitors rather than one for spectators, but that's not going to happen any time soon. 

If speedway wants to be a team sport (again, I'd say it's an individual sport) it needs to be using local, semi-professional, riders if it is to have any chance of being economically viable.

[Najjer]

7 minutes ago, truthsayer said:

Except it is. The lifeblood of any sport is its grassroots competitors. They create an industry and help feed the professional ranks. Professional speedway has a real dearth of talent, with many top names having competed for over 30 years. While this in itself is not a major problem, it's not in a healthy place. I'd argue that speedway needs to drop its professional status and focus on becoming a sport for competitors rather than one for spectators, but that's not going to happen any time soon. 

If speedway wants to be a team sport (again, I'd say it's an individual sport) it needs to be using local, semi-professional, riders if it is to have any chance of being economically viable.

Whilst I don’t disagree, that isn’t a problem that needs addressing within the Premiership or even the Championship - that is what the National League is for and should be doing to develop talent and give them a decent “get in” to team speedway. 

Something else that needs to happen though is that all 3 leagues work closer together instead of almost running as independent leagues. It should be a minimum requirement for Premiership and Championship teams to have a British junior at reserve regardless of averages. We focus way too much on trying to make all teams equal when it never happens anyway.

[Falcon1983]

This might be an idea which is a bit left field but with about 12 clubs left combining the prem and championship might be the best idea either as one league or a 6 team north division and a 6 team south 

Anyway thinking outside of the box why don't they look at having 7 rider teams but sort of two teams in one, a main team and a development team, those who can afford the top riders can use them

For example

Ipswich Witches

1. Doyle 2. Hume 3. King 4. Rew are the main body riders

1 & 2, 3 & 4, 1 & 3, 2 & 4, 1 & 4, 2 & 3 

They all race with each other across 6 heats of the program 

No.5 Jordan Jenkins is classed as a senior reserve rider, he can only ride with the two non heat leaders

So 5 & 2, 5 & 4 race together so thats an additional 2 heats taking the programme to 8 heats

No.6 (Joe Thompson) and No.7 (Max Perry) are the reserves

They get two reserve heats and one ride each with the senior reserve

So 6 & 7, 6 & 7, 5 & 6, 5 & 7 so thats 4 races making 12 heats all 4 main riders and the senior reserve get 4 rides, the reserves 3 rides

Heats 13 & 14 are nominated 

Its one less heat however some form of junior racing or 2nd halves could be introduced

 

[The Dog]

Sadly, when Sky were throwing millions at it and bringing it to our living rooms, the BSPA weren't interested in investing in the sport so their not going to help now it's on life support... 

[tonyd]

2 hours ago, Baldyman said:

 

It's also about having an evening out where you go home feeling entertained,,, it's been said thousands of times before,,, but alot of people want more for their money,,,, not just 15 races,, where you may see a couple of good ones,, or maybe not,,, 5 mins of watching a tractor going round every 15 mins whilst listening to the greatest hits of the 70s,,, don't cut it in modern life. 

With all the suggestions in this thread about six man teams, north / south leagues race nights etc all means nothing as at the end of the day the sport needs supporters and what the supporter wants more than anything (as quoted above)   "It's also about having an evening out where you go home feeling entertained" and at present that is something the supporter is not getting in fact the supporter is treated as a cash cow for the club each week with no respect or real return for there money by the sport. (Look at the Sheffield v Peterborough match tonight) Promotions moan about the lack of crowds at matches but at the same time the  crowd are getting fed up of seeing the same teams twice or three times a season and the same rider(s) six or eight times a season wearing different team colours. 

Maybe before this great sport totally collapses in this country certain people should look at Barry Bishop and the Isle of White who seem to regularly put on an entertaining fast moving and  packed programme of motorcycle action that seems to leave the crowd wanting more and wanting to come back to see more of the action again and again. 

The way the sport is going in this country I can see the IoW (and maybe one or two who join them and there ideas of motorcycling entertainment) being the last ones standing as the other clubs across the country fall by the wayside.

[mikebv]

The tipping point has long since passed...

What we have now is a made up, contrived operating model trying to masquerade as a team sport..

And that is the best they can come up with, (not a criticism as without them there wouldnt be Speedway)...

It has to be, as by no stretch of the imagination would you want, or design, to run the sport in the current way, if you were starting it tomorrow.. 

Too many fundamental flaws in their "cunning plan", and too much self interest, with no independent arbiter to be the gatekeeper of integrity and credibility, delivers exactly what we now have..

That won't change..

The sport, over here, is just in existence to allow riders to earn as much as they can, as many times a week as they can, and for promoters to have a "plaything" that allows them to feel that they are in some way playing a major role in a "professional sport" which has some relevance..

And, to allow the feeling that it somehow all matters, fans then have to collude with them, and suspend reality each time they attend..

It wont matter how many riders per team we have, or how the leagues are constructed, or what nights they race on...

It will still all ultimately end up as "let's make it all up as we go along" as no one will ever be "in charge" to stop it, and save the sport from itself...

Just go along, enjoy the racing, and, if so inclined, join in and pretend it means something...

The sport wont ever "reset", and it wont ever allow outside guidance and administration..

As, if it wanted to, it would have done so many, many years ago given the obvious flaws in its operating model..

Plenty of decent racing to be had around the country each week, so pick and choose which meetings to attend over a season, and enjoy them for what they are, and dont get too hung up on any results...

Treat it similar to something like WWE and class it as "sports entertainment" and you can still have an excellent, value for money, night out depending on the level of racing and promotional skill set of those in charge on the night..

An almost annual dwindling amount of tracks and fanbase can only end one way sadly, so make the most of it, and, hopefully, your local track will keep going for a good few years yet..

 

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by mikebv

[Najjer]

7 hours ago, Falcon1983 said:

This might be an idea which is a bit left field but with about 12 clubs left combining the prem and championship might be the best idea either as one league or a 6 team north division and a 6 team south 

Anyway thinking outside of the box why don't they look at having 7 rider teams but sort of two teams in one, a main team and a development team, those who can afford the top riders can use them

For example

Ipswich Witches

1. Doyle 2. Hume 3. King 4. Rew are the main body riders

1 & 2, 3 & 4, 1 & 3, 2 & 4, 1 & 4, 2 & 3 

They all race with each other across 6 heats of the program 

No.5 Jordan Jenkins is classed as a senior reserve rider, he can only ride with the two non heat leaders

So 5 & 2, 5 & 4 race together so thats an additional 2 heats taking the programme to 8 heats

No.6 (Joe Thompson) and No.7 (Max Perry) are the reserves

They get two reserve heats and one ride each with the senior reserve

So 6 & 7, 6 & 7, 5 & 6, 5 & 7 so thats 4 races making 12 heats all 4 main riders and the senior reserve get 4 rides, the reserves 3 rides

Heats 13 & 14 are nominated 

Its one less heat however some form of junior racing or 2nd halves could be introduced

 

This idea is majorly flawed though as is any idea of one big league in that there isn’t enough riders to make it work, especially with 7 man teams.

Matter of fact, you will end up losing even more riders than you have now as the likes of Doyle, Holder, Bewley and just about anybody who rides in Poland in either of the top divisions on a Friday, Saturday or Sunday won’t be racing here at Berwick, Scunthorpe or Edinburgh etc on a weekend. That idea simply won’t work.