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Plymouth v Oxford - Tue 20th June - Champ


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19 minutes ago, Mike0310 said:

Lewy when argyle lose shall I book an appointment to see the manager and the chairman get real.it’s a professional sport isn’t it and this is a forum to talk about things Jesus some of the things you have said about Poole in the past and there fans have been pretty harsh or have you forgot that there job is to put a winning team out on the track and it’s not happening and I’m just wondering why.

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1 hour ago, Mike0310 said:

Lewy when argyle lose shall I book an appointment to see the manager and the chairman get real.it’s a professional sport isn’t it and this is a forum to talk about things Jesus some of the things you have said about Poole in the past and there fans have been pretty harsh or have you forgot that there job is to put a winning team out on the track and it’s not happening and I’m just wondering why.

Whatever, you got access to talk to the management or promotion you choose not to and moan about the team not performing, that access is not available in soccer,so a poor comparison. More to do with not having the balls to speak to those concerned. I got called out a few years ago by Mark Phillips who said if I could do a better job come and manage the team for a challenge match which I did,if you're going criticise surely it's better to equip yourself with the facts instead of doing it on here. I've asked alot of the questions you want  answering and I'm happy with the answers because I've heard it first hand. 

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11 hours ago, IronScorpion said:

At the time, Henry's dad felt that he should be getting 4 rides.

To put it bluntly, as Henry's Dad wasn't the team manager, who cares if he wanted more rides for Henry. Just because a rider doesn't get their own way, no reason to quit the club?

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7 hours ago, lewy said:

Whatever, you got access to talk to the management or promotion you choose not to and moan about the team not performing, that access is not available in soccer,so a poor comparison. More to do with not having the balls to speak to those concerned. I got called out a few years ago by Mark Phillips who said if I could do a better job come and manage the team for a challenge match which I did,if you're going criticise surely it's better to equip yourself with the facts instead of doing it on here. I've asked alot of the questions you want  answering and I'm happy with the answers because I've heard it first hand. 

I’ve got the facts,mark and good on him has said  in the speedway star exactly what I was seeing with my own eyes every Tuesday he’s realised it tasked the team manager with sorting it out let’s hope he does then we can all enjoy a good end to the season starting tonight as for saying football is a poor comparison there both professional sports aren’t they and I was using an example  of the 2 sports I follow that’s all. If your happy with the answers you have got and there the same as what’s in the speedway star I’m very surprised at that as the promoter isn’t happy so how are you.

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14 minutes ago, Mike0310 said:

I’ve got the facts,mark and good on him has said  in the speedway star exactly what I was seeing with my own eyes every Tuesday he’s realised it tasked the team manager with sorting it out let’s hope he does then we can all enjoy a good end to the season starting tonight as for saying football is a poor comparison there both professional sports aren’t they and I was using an example  of the 2 sports I follow that’s all. If your happy with the answers you have got and there the same as what’s in the speedway star I’m very surprised at that as the promoter isn’t happy so how are you.

I'm happy with the answers because I've heard it from the horses mouth,doesn't mean I like the answers though. By the way I wouldn't class championship speedway as a professional sport  poorly run,most riders have jobs outside of speedway so hardly professional imo.

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Plymouth had massive bad luck last season.

Lost Gilkes when he was flying but somehow still kept winning, only de-railed when Barker over prescribed on painkillers and Lawson decided to maim MP-T...

This season it would appear the balance of the team was never right and for whatever reason it has never blended. 

Mark Philiips must pay Garry May a fair dollop to sort the team, pick the team and motivate the team. If it's taken Mark Phillips to kick May up the arris publicly to sort things then ultimately he probably needs to do what Nigel Tolley has done and bring in a Team Manager who CAN do his job. 

Time and reputation waits for no-one!

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11 hours ago, Mike0310 said:

I’ve just read the Plymouth bit in the speedway star this week where the promoter amongst other things says and I quote there is a lack of team bonding in the pits at the moment they all seem to be pulling towards there own individual problems and not working as a team.

It's the easiest excuse to say riders aren't bonding when a team is failing, it detracts from the promotion and management. I'm not saying they are btw but if they were looking out for themselves maybe they'd at least win some races.

The reality is we're approaching July, 6 matches in to a 16 match league season. We've lost 3 out of 4 at home in the league and if you count the cups, we've lost 5 out of 7, last season we lost 1 all season in the league and 2 in the cups.

Riding as a team or not, the riders aren't delivering what they should be. The Turner gamble hasn't paid off, he can clearly gate but it's not that he is finishing last, he's just not finishing, you can't fault the effort but he looks like an inexperienced NL rider when turning the bike, Trigger, while improving (which is great to see btw) is a season away from being competitive at reserve, Howarth looks a different rider from what he has been the last couple of years and Barker and Worrall have really inconsistent. Gilkes is the one shining light and he's finding his feet again after his injury which is fantastic. Morley was obvious and easy replacement for Starke who struggled, but isn't going to score serious points in the main body at this level.

The team is sitting bottom of the league for a reason and it's because it was built with an incredibly weak bottom end and the 3 heat leaders haven't produced what they were brought in to do and most on here thought they would do. When you build the team top heavy, you put a lot of pressure on those guys because they know the points aren't coming elsewhere in the main.

I get the management could not have anticipated such a downturn in form from the heat leaders but they are responsible for how the team is structured and the weak bottom end. They are also responsible for how the track is set up, is Mark listening to the riders when he preps the track? Or is he doing it his way? It's easy to point the finger at 'team unity' but they'd get a lot more credibility if they also took on the chin that they made errors too! 

The only way Plymouth will improve with any significance is to make at least 3 changes imo, but who can you get at this point in the season? Truth be told Plymouth's season is done as far as playoffs go so the promotion might as well try something new.

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10 hours ago, szkocjasid said:

To put it bluntly, as Henry's Dad wasn't the team manager, who cares if he wanted more rides for Henry. Just because a rider doesn't get their own way, no reason to quit the club?

When your dad is the reason you have equipment and calls the shots as a result, you don't really have a choice!

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8 minutes ago, torpointfanatic22 said:

The team is sitting bottom of the league for a reason and it's because it was built with an incredibly weak bottom end and the 3 heat leaders haven't produced what they were brought in to do and most on here thought they would do. When you build the team top heavy, you put a lot of pressure on those guys because they know the points aren't coming elsewhere in the main.

I get the management could not have anticipated such a downturn in form from the heat leaders but they are responsible for how the team is structured and the weak bottom end...

But Oxford built their team in exactly the same way, and they are sitting in the exact opposite position having won every league meeting. Proves it wasn't a bad philosophy at the start of the season and it could have worked, but rider form is the issue.

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14 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

But Oxford built their team in exactly the same way, and they are sitting in the exact opposite position having won every league meeting. Proves it wasn't a bad philosophy at the start of the season and it could have worked, but rider form is the issue.

All to do with personnel. Messrs Masters, Kerr and Nicholls are all better than their opposite numbers at Plymouth and Atkins with Kileen/Kinsley have far exceeded what the Plymouth pair have managed which was fairly predictable during to their inexperience. The second strings is why I thought Plymouth would be decent but Gilkes hasn't developed as I thought he might (broken leg last year having a effect no doubt) and Starke was very poor. 

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10 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

All to do with personnel. Messrs Masters, Kerr and Nicholls are all better than their opposite numbers at Plymouth and Atkins with Kileen/Kinsley have far exceeded what the Plymouth pair have managed which was fairly predictable during to their inexperience. The second strings is why I thought Plymouth would be decent but Gilkes hasn't developed as I thought he might (broken leg last year having a effect no doubt) and Starke was very poor. 

They are now....but not sure you would have said that at the start of the season, though. Masters speaks for himself, but Nicholls and Atkins have far exceeded what was expected of them in my opinion - and Jenkins is also improving every week. On the flip side you'd have to say Howarth, Worrall and Barker have all underperformed.

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13 minutes ago, Bojangles said:

They are now....but not sure you would have said that at the start of the season, though. Masters speaks for himself, but Nicholls and Atkins have far exceeded what was expected of them in my opinion - and Jenkins is also improving every week. On the flip side you'd have to say Howarth, Worrall and Barker have all underperformed.

I take your point about Scott, he had a quiet year by his standards in 2022 and you'd be forgiven for thinking he might not reach this seasons heights again at his age. I think Worrall and Howarth's averages were always going to drop once they moved from Leicester. I had Oxford's top three as the leagues strongest in March but fighting to get 5th/6th, the form Atkins, Jenkins and to a lesser extent Heeps has made them much stronger. Things could have been even better had Kileen stayed fit. 

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29 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:

I take your point about Scott, he had a quiet year by his standards in 2022 and you'd be forgiven for thinking he might not reach this seasons heights again at his age. I think Worrall and Howarth's averages were always going to drop once they moved from Leicester. I had Oxford's top three as the leagues strongest in March but fighting to get 5th/6th, the form Atkins, Jenkins and to a lesser extent Heeps has made them much stronger. Things could have been even better had Kileen stayed fit. 

Heeps is an odd one, he's up slightly but that hides a massive 2 point improvement at home and a 1 1/2 point drop away. Still a match winner at Berwick though in heats 7 & 8.

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The split between the two sides comes down to Oxford 'have beens' vs Plymouths 'never beens'. Sam, Scott and Cam have all been top performers at PL level (Sam still is) these guys can and do pass on information and experience to the emerging listening younger team members. Plymouth on the other hand have a team of individuals who are all struggling themselves and with few who want to listen.  

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