Wembley

[steve roberts]

39 minutes ago, geoff100 said:

Sir arthur elvin said many times speedway and greyhounds kept wembley open,the track was always their the pitch was laid on top with turf from good old cumbria ,everytime  the england team got beat they blamed the track saying they couldnt run down the wings!

I'm sure I'm right in saying that Sir Authur was quoted to say that as long as he was alive there would always be a place for Speedway at Wembley? If I recall he died whilst on a cruise?

[25yearfan]

Your right, Sir Arthur Elvin (originally from the great City of Norwich!) died in early 1957 while on a cruise at the reasonably young age of 57. He alone for some years had been the main reason League speedway continued at Wembley (speedway was apparently his first sporting love) so his death was soon followed by the Lions team being pulled out of the League by the remaining Wembley Directors.

 

Its reasonable to suggest that had Elvin lived until his 80's then League speedway at Wembley could very well have continued uninterrupted into the 1980's, especially since speedway had a renaissance  in the late 60's up until the early 80's and the 1970/71 Wembley Lions two year spell in the British League was a well supported success.

 

- I'm sure also that a follow on from League speedway at Wembley lasting until the 80's would have been major meetings surviving for even longer (into the 1990's?) at the grand stadium when one considers that the last speedway meeting at Wembley, the 1981 World final took place 11 years after the last season of League racing there back in 1971 with quite a few other big speedway meetings taking place between 1972 and 1981.  

 

All ifs and buts like everything else in life,  its always interesting to wonder how different things could have turned out just by one event not happening as it did!

Edited May 8, 2023 by 25yearfan

[Humphrey Appleby]

12 hours ago, steve roberts said:

Didn't the England national football team often play their games at other grounds?

Depends when you mean.

Up until the 1950s, I think England rarely played at Wembley, but after that until the old stadium closed, they very rarely didn’t. Obviously whilst Wembley was being redeveloped after 2001 then England played all over the place, but since the new stadium has opened they’ve played all but two home matches at the new Wembley.

[steve roberts]

29 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Depends when you mean.

Up until the 1950s, I think England rarely played at Wembley, but after that until the old stadium closed, they very rarely didn’t. Obviously whilst Wembley was being redeveloped after 2001 then England played all over the place, but since the new stadium has opened they’ve played all but two home matches at the new Wembley.

Yes it was the fifties and into the early sixties(?) if I recall? Of course there weren't the number of internationals played back then as there are nowadays.

[Humphrey Appleby]

4 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

And Greyhound Racing! 

Would have thought that largely sustained it as can't imagine that a couple of cup finals, rugby league and maybe 4-5 internationals per year would have paid all the bills. Of course concerts became a thing in later years, which I'd have thought would have done far more damage to the pitch than speedway!

Even then, Wembley was probably only viable as it was purchased for a bargain basement price (equivalent of 10-20 million today). So it really only needed to recoup its operating and maintenance costs. By contrast, the new Wembley cost 800 million so no wonder they're trying to maximise use of it.

[Humphrey Appleby]

14 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

I think there is potential for a big crowd to attend a Wembley GP, on the following basis:

1. London is easier to get to for most people than Cardiff

2. International fans can easily fly into London. Cardiff airport, surely, has limited destinations 

3. London has more tourist appeal (in my opinion) than Cardiff

4. I have only attended Cardiff once, the first, and when I left the stadium, walking through Cardiff, some Welsh men seemed quite hostile. I was with my wife

     and felt a bit threatened, although nothing happened. Yes, that could happen in Wembley, but in my opinion, unlikely

5. Wembley stadium must carry more prestige than Cardiff's

6. I'm sure the riders would love to be able to say, they have ridden in Wembley stadium

7. With good marketing, I reckon it could at least equal 1981's gate. I won't be going to Cardiff again, but I would definitely go to Wembley!  

There's probably not more than 25,000 semi-regular speedway fans in Britain nowadays, and that's being generous. There's an ever diminishing number who 'used to go' - the Cardiff GP would suggest 10-15k, plus a properly promoted Wembley might get the interest of a few thousand new spectators willing to give it a go. 

I'd agree London is much more accessible and arguably more attractive to foreign fans, so you'd probably also pick up a fair few more there too. But I don't realistically think you'd get more than 50k, maybe 60k absolute tops.

I'd agree with you about the air of hostility in Wales. I don't want to over-generalise as I go to Wales a lot and only once have directly experienced any issues, but there does seem to be an underlying air of menace in even small towns there. I don't think it's particularly directed at the English because the local youth mostly seem to want to abuse each other. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Humphrey Appleby

[fatface]

18 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

4. I have only attended Cardiff once, the first, and when I left the stadium, walking through Cardiff, some Welsh men seemed quite hostile. I was with my wife

     and felt a bit threatened, although nothing happened. Yes, that could happen in Wembley, but in my opinion, unlikely

Yes, I wouldn't have thought so. Not in England. Not among some English men. 

[Ray Stadia]

5 hours ago, fatface said:

Yes, I wouldn't have thought so. Not in England. Not among some English men. 

Ok, take the p155! But I can only speak as I found. Also, when you leave the stadium, you have to walk through the town centre! So, for me, poke Cardiff where the sun don't shine! Should your nickname be 'Fatface' or 'Fat ****'! 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Ray Stadia

[fatface]

14 hours ago, Ray Stadia said:

Ok, take the p155! But I can only speak as I found. Also, when you leave the stadium, you have to walk through the town centre! So, for me, poke Cardiff where the sun don't shine! Should your nickname be 'Fatface' or 'Fat ****'! 

I hope those dreadful Welsh men were not using such language. Awful primitive people.

You deserve the mocking, your really do. The sentiments are almost stereotypically SO pearl-clutching middle England it's untrue. It's exactly why Celts and many others ridicule us English. At times, it's utterly deserved.

[SPEEDY69]

A speedway event at Wembley would be great!  The area is not the best, nothing like Cardiff but you can get to it/away from it quite easily.  The marketing would be everything though and it could fill the place.

[IainB]

10 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said:

The marketing would be everything though and it could fill the place.

I can't see it... Wembley is not what it used to be and i doubt it has the same allure as it once had, gone are the days of it being a special place that was revered around the world, every country has their own "Wembley" these days. We'll never know but I suspect they'd get 50,000 tops. Now 50,000 in the London Stadium would be quite impressive, in a better area and easier to get to... though I can't see that either 

Edited May 9, 2023 by iainb

[fatface]

17 minutes ago, iainb said:

I can't see it... Wembley is not what it used to be and i doubt it has the same allure as it once had, gone are the days of it being a special place that was revered around the world, every country has their own "Wembley" these days. We'll never know but I suspect they'd get 50,000 tops. Now 50,000 in the London Stadium would be quite impressive, in a better area and easier to get to... though I can't see that either 

Absolutely. Too much romanticism on this thread. As for Wembley having great transport links....well, laughable to be honest. Any Londoner or anyone who has been to an event of any size there and been stuck in a huge funnel of people trying to get to a train station or on the tube afterwards knows that. God forbid, there might be some Welsh men in the same funnel.

Wembley is a good stadium, but er, that's it. It's pretty underwhelming for a national stadium. It might sneak into the top 5 of London stadiums, but that's it.

[Humphrey Appleby]

1 hour ago, fatface said:

Wembley is a good stadium, but er, that's it. It's pretty underwhelming for a national stadium. It might sneak into the top 5 of London stadiums, but that's it.

I'd say Wembley is a very good stadium - for football and other rectangular sports. 

Everything around Wembley is less good - overpriced and overcrowded eateries and hotels, the ready mix concrete plant, and all the industrial units housing tacky businesses. The stadium is in principle quite well served for transport, with both National Rail and Underground stations nearby, but as you say, the National Rail station doesn't really seem to work that well.

Wembley is the best stadium in London, although the Emirates pushes it pretty close and you've got the option of walking there from various places. The former Olympic Stadium would probably be better for speedway though. 

[Tim G]

10 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I'd say Wembley is a very good stadium - for football and other rectangular sports. 

Everything around Wembley is less good - overpriced and overcrowded eateries and hotels, the ready mix concrete plant, and all the industrial units housing tacky businesses. The stadium is in principle quite well served for transport, with both National Rail and Underground stations nearby, but as you say, the National Rail station doesn't really seem to work that well.

Wembley is the best stadium in London, although the Emirates pushes it pretty close and you've got the option of walking there from various places. The former Olympic Stadium would probably be better for speedway though. 

The best stadium in London is the Tottenham Hotspur stadium but the area is far from the best but you can see they are starting to do parts of it up.

Probaly would actually be the easiest to convert to a speedway track aswell due to it having two pitches so no damage to the football pitch. 50,000 fans would be a pretty much sell out but I don’t see a speedway meeting get those sort of numbers these days.

Wembley is a fantasy and too big for speedway now and I believe the London Stadium has seating removed when it’s converted for athletics so would need the same for speedway.

I just cannot see how economical a speedway gp would work in a big London stadium.

[fatface]

40 minutes ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

Wembley is the best stadium in London, although the Emirates pushes it pretty close and you've got the option of walking there from various places. The former Olympic Stadium would probably be better for speedway though. 

I'd have the Emirates, Spurs and Twickenham all above it. Many also prefer the Olympic Stadium...and it certainly has a better shape for speedway.

[Mr Ore]

2 hours ago, Tim G said:

The best stadium in London is the Tottenham Hotspur stadium but the area is far from the best but you can see they are starting to do parts of it up.

Probaly would actually be the easiest to convert to a speedway track aswell due to it having two pitches so no damage to the football pitch. 50,000 fans would be a pretty much sell out but I don’t see a speedway meeting get those sort of numbers these days.

Wembley is a fantasy and too big for speedway now and I believe the London Stadium has seating removed when it’s converted for athletics so would need the same for speedway.

I just cannot see how economical a speedway gp would work in a big London stadium.

The groundsman at Tottenham is a big (probably huge) speedway fan. He checked in the early stages of the development whether the pitch could be lifted and base accommodate a speedway track.  Sadly not, I believe owing to the structure of the base beneath the pitch, but we do have people in high places on our side. Similarly London Stadium/West Ham ownership gave a favourable response to initial enquiries. With the baseball and athletics contracts though I am unsure how speedway could be fitted in at this stage during the football close season. Never say never.  

When AFC Wimbledon asked for ideas for other uses of the stadium I don't think I was alone in suggesting speedway but never received a response.  With complaints that other stadia could be too large this could be too small to justify expend though.  

I find the main problem with going to the London Stadium is that, when you go to a pub afterwards and they hear an English accent they immediately start talking Cockney and singing "Knees up Mavver Brarn"    Being bananaphobic their offer to "'ave a banana" is quite insulting too.   

 

 

 

  

[Humphrey Appleby]

7 hours ago, Tim G said:

The best stadium in London is the Tottenham Hotspur stadium but the area is far from the best but you can see they are starting to do parts of it up.

I lived on White Hart Lane for a while and the area was a terrible dump. I will say that all of the demolition and reconstruction of the area to accommodate the new stadium does seem to have improved it. 

[chunky]

3 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I lived on White Hart Lane for a while and the area was a terrible dump. I will say that all of the demolition and reconstruction of the area to accommodate the new stadium does seem to have improved it. 

Still missing a decent football team, though...

[mikebv]

15 hours ago, Humphrey Appleby said:

I lived on White Hart Lane for a while and the area was a terrible dump. I will say that all of the demolition and reconstruction of the area to accommodate the new stadium does seem to have improved it. 

I believe that after they demolished it, no one noticed for 3 years that it had happened.. 

Anyhow, 30 to 40 thousand max I would say if Wembley came back...

Which will still be many more than attend UK Speedway each week..

Getting out of London on a Saturday evening to "anywhere" which is a decent distance outside it isn't fun though...

A very risky, expensive pipe dream I would suggest...

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by mikebv

[Humphrey Appleby]

13 hours ago, chunky said:

Still missing a decent football team, though...

Was never a Spurs fan despite living near the ground. Always preferred going to the Arsenal daan the road...

Edited May 10, 2023 by Humphrey Appleby