szkocjasid Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: One criticism from a managerial point of view.... We were 6 points behind prior to Heat 10.....why didn't we use a T/S for Bowtell who had only scored 1 point from 3 previous rides and looked the slowest rider out there? Yes, people are going to say that Bowtell was left in and won the heat thanks to some fine team riding by Morris....but I'll tell you now, nobody with half a speedway brain could/would have predicted that!!! When I looked at the Updates, I thought they'd either use a t/s at the first opportunity (heat 9 replacing Nielsen) or wait till heat 11 to replace a reserve (Proctor). Assuming Morris would've won heat 9, they would have gained 2 points, but still lost by 6 on the night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 23 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: When I looked at the Updates, I thought they'd either use a t/s at the first opportunity (heat 9 replacing Nielsen) or wait till heat 11 to replace a reserve (Proctor). Assuming Morris would've won heat 9, they would have gained 2 points, but still lost by 6 on the night. Quite right... I meant Heat 9 ...replacing Nielsen would've been the obvious option. As for losing by 6 points? this would be better than 8, as there is an aggregate bonus point to play for! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrizHeathen Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 A couple of early changes needed here, or this team could become whipping boys in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sings4Speedway Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 3 hours ago, heathen52 said: I get it that the pre season optimism always gets people excited but I was told Nigel Tolley expected to win the League this season, I'm saying now their is not a cat in hell's chance of winning anything with the way this team has been built, It's between the Glads and Brummies who will win the wooden thingy. Anyone who thinks its a good idea to sink tons of their hard earned cash into a speedway club clearly isn't right in the head so i would note very little of what they say. Brum don't look as terrible as expected with Morris putting effort in, Pearson benefitting from the extra rides and season in the UK but there are cracks. Proctor was always going to be a disaster, Bowtell has great equipment but not always money well spent and needs more predictable engines. Paco guesting saved a few blushes but more home defeats will be on the cards and the racing will need to improve to see in 2024. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 4 hours ago, BrizHeathen said: A couple of early changes needed here, or this team could become whipping boys in my opinion. I don't think there will be any changes until Morris gets an appropriate average.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 24 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: I don't think there will be any changes until Morris gets an appropriate average.... That was Morris’s genuine average though,if your waiting or wanting him to drop it you will take some defeats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 33 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: I don't think there will be any changes until Morris gets an appropriate average.... 7 minutes ago, Fromafar said: That was Morris’s genuine average though,if your waiting or wanting him to drop it you will take some defeats. Morris's average is true & based on his last league meetings in 2022(not including play offs or KOC) & will increase/decrease based on these 10 plus any additional league meetings in 2023 up to the rolling max of 20 meetings so do not expect any riders average to change until probably 1st June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedway fan Posted April 20, 2023 Report Share Posted April 20, 2023 11 hours ago, GiveusaB said: One criticism from a managerial point of view.... We were 6 points behind prior to Heat 10.....why didn't we use a T/S for Bowtell who had only scored 1 point from 3 previous rides and looked the slowest rider out there? Yes, people are going to say that Bowtell was left in and won the heat thanks to some fine team riding by Morris....but I'll tell you now, nobody with half a speedway brain could/would have predicted that!!! As Alfie was excluded ( harshly) in heat 1 that does not count as a ride so he couldn't be replaced in heat 10 as had to have his third compulsory ride ... and that 5-1 with Nick Morris who superbly team rode was a joy to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 10 hours ago, GiveusaB said: I don't think there will be any changes until Morris gets an appropriate average.... 9 hours ago, Fromafar said: That was Morris’s genuine average though,if your waiting or wanting him to drop it you will take some defeats. 9 hours ago, IronScorpion said: Morris's average is true & based on his last league meetings in 2022(not including play offs or KOC) & will increase/decrease based on these 10 plus any additional league meetings in 2023 up to the rolling max of 20 meetings so do not expect any riders average to change until probably 1st June. Morris' average is genuine for the second half of last season (when he was on form), but not accurate of the full season (his early season poor scores are forgotten, which didn't happen in previous years). Most people probably feel it's not an "accurate" average as it only covers half a season of racing! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinny Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 The averages are just another joke of a situation in the sport. I have never liked rolling averages, I remember when they first introduced them in around 2003 ish. I get that they were brought out to stop average fiddling, but they dont tell the full story over a season. Unless they have slightly changed the rules, I am not sure. It is too hard to keep track of them these days. At least Morris has an actual average though and not a converted one. What were Berwick thinking signing Jorgensen on a 9.5?!?! Either way, Birmingham need to re jig that side pronto or they will be stone last. it is essentially a team of one top rider, an average heatleader and five reserves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 48 minutes ago, Pinny said: The averages are just another joke of a situation in the sport. I have never liked rolling averages, I remember when they first introduced them in around 2003 ish. I get that they were brought out to stop average fiddling, but they dont tell the full story over a season. Unless they have slightly changed the rules, I am not sure. It is too hard to keep track of them these days. At least Morris has an actual average though and not a converted one. What were Berwick thinking signing Jorgensen on a 9.5?!?! Either way, Birmingham need to re jig that side pronto or they will be stone last. it is essentially a team of one top rider, an average heatleader and five reserves. The Berwick thinking is a cunning plan by the management, lets see if it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 12 hours ago, Speedway fan said: As Alfie was excluded ( harshly) in heat 1 that does not count as a ride so he couldn't be replaced in heat 10 as had to have his third compulsory ride ... and that 5-1 with Nick Morris who superbly team rode was a joy to watch. Really ? I didn't know that if you get excluded for a tapes offence, then it doesn't count as an official ride ? does that mean the '0' points doesn't contribute towards his calculated average? As for the harsh exclusion? he definitely moved in the first attempted start, but I think he got a flyer in the second attempt (Ref was wrong to exclude him...) Thank you for explaining. However, I still think we would've benefited by replacing Nielsen in Heat 9? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GiveusaB Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 1 hour ago, screm said: The Berwick thinking is a cunning plan by the management, lets see if it works. What is the Berwick plan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 7 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Morris' average is genuine for the second half of last season (when he was on form), but not accurate of the full season (his early season poor scores are forgotten, which didn't happen in previous years). Most people probably feel it's not an "accurate" average as it only covers half a season of racing! Also it includes a lot of matches at Leicester (average well over 10), but he won't be riding there this year in the Championship. Instead he'll be riding at all the other tracks (where he averaged under 8 last year). So unless he takes to Perry Barr the way he did to Leicester (which he may) his average will drop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan555 Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 24 minutes ago, GiveusaB said: What is the Berwick plan? I’d guess let Jorgensens average fall to a more accurate 7 point region and then replace one of the 2 point reserves with a 4/5 pointer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromafar Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 8 hours ago, szkocjasid said: Morris' average is genuine for the second half of last season (when he was on form), but not accurate of the full season (his early season poor scores are forgotten, which didn't happen in previous years). Most people probably feel it's not an "accurate" average as it only covers half a season of racing! Trouble is he has to start this season off form to get it down,then where would that put Birmingham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
screm Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 54 minutes ago, Ryan555 said: I’d guess let Jorgensens average fall to a more accurate 7 point region and then replace one of the 2 point reserves with a 4/5 pointer Problem is what is lost with Jorgensen`s average will probably be mostly used up when Jonas Knudson`s average changes from his current assessed one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 17 hours ago, Speedway fan said: As Alfie was excluded ( harshly) in heat 1 that does not count as a ride so he couldn't be replaced in heat 10 as had to have his third compulsory ride ... and that 5-1 with Nick Morris who superbly team rode was a joy to watch. 5 hours ago, GiveusaB said: Really ? I didn't know that if you get excluded for a tapes offence, then it doesn't count as an official ride ? does that mean the '0' points doesn't contribute towards his calculated average? As for the harsh exclusion? he definitely moved in the first attempted start, but I think he got a flyer in the second attempt (Ref was wrong to exclude him...) Thank you for explaining. However, I still think we would've benefited by replacing Nielsen in Heat 9? Got me on that one too as I thought if a rider started a race, it was classed as a ride, similar to a tape offence. So Speedway fan is saying that he did not officially start the race. Missing the 2 minutes is not a ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 34 minutes ago, IronScorpion said: Got me on that one too as I thought if a rider started a race, it was classed as a ride, similar to a tape offence. So Speedway fan is saying that he did not officially start the race. Missing the 2 minutes is not a ride. I think what matters is if the rider is replaced, bring a reserve in for a tapes or 2 min exclusion & it doesn't count as a minimum ride! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted April 21, 2023 Report Share Posted April 21, 2023 Does that also apply if a race is started, 1st bend bunching, all 4 back but a rider can't & is replaced. In the rules it calls it "frustrated" rides. Never understood it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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