mikebv Posted April 24, 2023 Report Share Posted April 24, 2023 2 minutes ago, TB1 said: Was that the lazy option for promoters? I seemed to remember Rasmussen causing controversy when he became the first non uk rider to drop down. It just became fashionable (and far too easy), to bring in a plethora of journeymen average fitters from overseas... Then when they didn't work out, rinse and repeat with the next batch... Hoping that the odd few would come good... Poland will stay at the top because they know that closing opportunities for their own riders, and bringing in loads of random lads from overseas, is short term folly... Hence they protect team places for their own countrymen. .. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted April 25, 2023 Report Share Posted April 25, 2023 11 hours ago, TB1 said: Was that the lazy option for promoters? I seemed to remember Rasmussen causing controversy when he became the first non uk rider to drop down. I think, back in the day the National League was a separate entity, a bit lit like what NORA is today. Rye House opened pandora's box when they signed Razza and he was quite an attraction at the time and understandably other NL clubs then followed suit to boost their businesses... eventually the leagues merged and then you end up where we are today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.D Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 The sport in this country is clearly in a very poor place. We are seeing so many tracks/business close down not only over the last few years but for many years before this. The only way this sport in the UK won't go into a semi pro state permanently and in my opinion spiral into oblivion is to reset now and start to grow. A new independent governing body (away from club owners and the BSPL) is needed to set up a blueprint for the future of the sport in this country. This may start with a small pro top league and then a second semi pro league. We have a lot of good guys involved in running the sport but I feel now is the time for them to work together working on how to improve the presentation of the sport to the public, we need people involved who are in place to evolve the sport in this country and not just their own club or business. Phil Morris is a good start but It does concern me he won't have the power to start this up because he has the vision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 Make it cheaper to run. Make it cheaper to attend. Make it exciting to watch. Give young people more opportunities to get on a bike and experience the thrill. Find a way to stop being at the mercy of landlords. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LisaColette Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, Noelinho said: Make it cheaper to run. Make it cheaper to attend. Make it exciting to watch. Give young people more opportunities to get on a bike and experience the thrill. Find a way to stop being at the mercy of landlords. You don't ask for much! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishersGate Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 Phil Morris on a podcast didn't seem to impress me with what he said . He was asked about the future of the panthers and wolves and didn't really give a proper answer really. Just encouraged clubs to own the stadiums like Leicester and workington and accepted that if your a tenant you can't do anything..so what's he going to do? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FAST GATER Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 16 minutes ago, FishersGate said: Phil Morris on a podcast didn't seem to impress me with what he said . He was asked about the future of the panthers and wolves and didn't really give a proper answer really. Just encouraged clubs to own the stadiums like Leicester and workington and accepted that if your a tenant you can't do anything..so what's he going to do? IMO Morris is not the man for the job but his face seems to fit ,it needs someone with fresh eyes and business background and of indepentent status he's far from that . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noelinho Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 1 hour ago, lisa-colette said: You don't ask for much! Well, if you deal with 1), then 2) is a lot easier. And if you manage 3) hopefully more people turn up, which helps those even more. But if you want to grow the sport, you need to do more to include younger fans, and ultimately, no matter what you do, if you don't control your stadium, sometimes getting all those things right doesn't matter. If Edinburgh owned their own track then it their future would look a lot brighter. Their current track is a bit crap, but I also totally understand why it doesn't change. If they build a new one of their own, I'm sure it would be better, and then on Fridays when Glasgow aren't at home, I'll happily spend my money there. The reason I don't go there is because the racing is dull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted April 27, 2023 Report Share Posted April 27, 2023 40 minutes ago, FishersGate said: Just encouraged clubs to own the stadiums like Leicester and workington and accepted that if your a tenant you can't do anything..so what's he going to do? The thing is the Leicester and Workington models are not the same. I believe the Leicester stadium is Council owned and leased back on a long term agreement. Workington on the other hand is still at the whim of a private owner and I don't want to p1ss on their parade before they've even started but nobody knows what the future holds, just look at Somerset. It only takes an offer that can't be refused to be made to the owner and you're out of a home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 (edited) Make it that meetings are actually worth winning... Make it a credible offering... Make it worth investing your emotional involvement in... Make it affordable for those thousands who go now and again to attend more regularly... Make it semi pro for the vast majority if it means a significant reduction in admission charges.. Make it cheaper for the riders to participate... Make it a "proper night out" at a well promoted stand alone "event".. Make it a joined up collective national marketing plan with decent budgetary investmemt pushing the sport generically.. Make it that you are not beholding to other leagues and run at the best time you feel can bring your largest crowds in... Make it something that major sponsors won't see as being regarded, by even its own most loyal fans, as 'a bit Mickey Mouse"... Make it up as you go along... (Oops, no, not the last one, I took that from the current masterplan).. Edited April 28, 2023 by mikebv 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hunter Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 10 hours ago, FishersGate said: Phil Morris on a podcast didn't seem to impress me with what he said . He was asked about the future of the panthers and wolves and didn't really give a proper answer really. Just encouraged clubs to own the stadiums like Leicester and workington and accepted that if your a tenant you can't do anything..so what's he going to do? Leicester don't own their stadium. It's leased from David Hemsleys company who in turn lease it from Leicester City Council. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old bob at herne bay Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 Unlike major sports in the UK, speedway hasn’t any influential folk in its hierarchy. No multi millionaires with influence in business circles are interested in speedway. UK Speedway cannot attract an A list personality to attend the SGP event. The deal done with Manchester City Council is a unique piece of business, which bankrupted the original promoting team, but created an NSS. It is damning that a UK sport stages its round of a flagship event in a rugby stadium rented for the day from a third party. Morris is right in saying UK speedway needs to own it’s own tracks, but with ex promoters suggesting north of £250k to start up - without some big money investors/philanthropists it ain’t gonna happen. BUT there are tracks lying idle which owners have positively rejected the idea of staging speedway ever again. I think the WHY ? needs to be carefully investigated. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 13 minutes ago, Happy Hunter said: Leicester don't own their stadium. It's leased from David Hemsleys company who in turn lease it from Leicester City Council. So, do you know what happens if David Hemsley falls out of love with Speedway or god forbid something happens to him and his company is wound up or taken over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bagpuss Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 I think the idea that Phil Morris is going to breeze in with a magic wand is fanciful. I was actually encouraged by what I heard from him on the @RoundTheBoardsPodcast and he was choosing his words carefully at times as he couldnt say too much about certain things. He (or anybody) is going to need several years to sort the mess that is Premiership speedway out to be fair to him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HGould Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 You can't market properly what you don't own and have full control of. That's the crux of the problem and has been for decades. How many Tracks are actually OWNED fully or effective decision making by the Promoters / Management of the Club? Glasgow, Redcar; Scunthorpe; Kings Lynn . Excuse me IF I'm wrong but aren't the remainder Owned by Dogs / Stocks / Football / Councils / Covenants etc??.. Most don't even have revenue from basics like Food and Drink. That's a fundamental flaw with the model! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 1 minute ago, HGould said: You can't market properly what you don't own and have full control of. That's the crux of the problem and has been for decades. How many Tracks are actually OWNED fully or effective decision making by the Promoters / Management of the Club? Glasgow, Redcar; Scunthorpe; Kings Lynn . Excuse me IF I'm wrong but aren't the remainder Owned by Dogs / Stocks / Football / Councils / Covenants etc??.. Most don't even have revenue from basics like Food and Drink. That's a fundamental flaw with the model! ... and not only not owning the tracks, increasingly clubs don't own the riders with them being at the whim of the mood a Polish promoter is in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebv Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 22 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said: Unlike major sports in the UK, speedway hasn’t any influential folk in its hierarchy. No multi millionaires with influence in business circles are interested in speedway. UK Speedway cannot attract an A list personality to attend the SGP event. The deal done with Manchester City Council is a unique piece of business, which bankrupted the original promoting team, but created an NSS. It is damning that a UK sport stages its round of a flagship event in a rugby stadium rented for the day from a third party. Morris is right in saying UK speedway needs to own it’s own tracks, but with ex promoters suggesting north of £250k to start up - without some big money investors/philanthropists it ain’t gonna happen. BUT there are tracks lying idle which owners have positively rejected the idea of staging speedway ever again. I think the WHY ? needs to be carefully investigated. All correct... Yet. UK Speedway will spend a couple million pounds in rent and riders over the coming season.. With clubs all trying to out do each other... To win... What exactly? Their very own operating model prevents any real achievement being delivered... And 100's of thousands of pounds will be spent on just ten riders or so who will pay nothing like that back in admission money.. And 100's of thousands of pounds more on the rest of the riders who will bring in much less.. Maybe, collectively and generically they could pool some of that huge outlay to start to purchase land in areas that already have, (or have had successful) teams... Build it, (think Buxton, Somerset, Worky types), and then start to invest in further projects gradually as (hopefully), profits start to be made.. As is often proven, both live at "events", and via TV audience numbers, there is actually a sizeable following for the sport in the UK... Getting many of them to believe in the domestic product enough to attend regularly is the challenge.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Hunter Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 4 hours ago, iainb said: So, do you know what happens if David Hemsley falls out of love with Speedway or god forbid something happens to him and his company is wound up or taken over? Short answer is no! I think Hemsley had something like a 99 year lease from the Council and the present promoters have a 14 year sub-lease. The track is built on the site of a Victorian sewage effluent disposal farm and is contaminated with heavy metals and isn't fit for housing development. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishersGate Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 15 minutes ago, Happy Hunter said: Short answer is no! I think Hemsley had something like a 99 year lease from the Council and the present promoters have a 14 year sub-lease. The track is built on the site of a Victorian sewage effluent disposal farm and is contaminated with heavy metals and isn't fit for housing development. I've spoken to Dave a few times and he's lost a little interest in speedway but has no intention of selling the land at all. His ex wife also cares for speedway. There has been interest in the land but it's contaminated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IainB Posted April 28, 2023 Report Share Posted April 28, 2023 28 minutes ago, FishersGate said: I've spoken to Dave a few times and he's lost a little interest in speedway but has no intention of selling the land at all. His ex wife also cares for speedway. There has been interest in the land but it's contaminated. It's not his land to sell though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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