Ghostwalker Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 2 hours ago, racers and royals said: GP riders are not allowed to enter the SEC qualifiers or to be named as wildcards in that series. are you sure about the qualifiers? Sounds like a restriction of trade to me. Wild card is a different matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: are you sure about the qualifiers? Sounds like a restriction of trade to me. Wild card is a different matter. Part of the deal between the FIM and FIM Europe and presumably DSE and Onesport when the winner of the SEC was awarded a GP spot. If Madsen, Michelsen and Dudek fail to get in top 5 of the SEC then the GP riders will get less and less in the SEC. Also in the event of one of those 3 named winning the SEC and finishing in top 6 in GP then it does not go to the 2nd place. Edited July 17, 2023 by racers and royals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 15 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: are you sure about the qualifiers? Sounds like a restriction of trade to me. Wild card is a different matter. Calling it restriction of trade is not really correct. Those are simply the competition rules. After all nobody shouts 'age discrimination' because SGP2 is restricted to under 21s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostwalker Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 10 hours ago, OveFundinFan said: But Nilsson won the Challenge meeting last year in Glasgow. That’s what others have to do. On a track Kim new very well but Kubera had never seen before. Put the qualifier on a track Kubera knows very well but Kim hasn't rifden on and the result had likely been the opposite. Kim complained after the Swedish final this year that he had a poor draw. That is also a problem with only having one qualifier final. If you are on a track that dont allow passning and where certain gates are impossible to gate from it doesnt matter how good you are if you get a poor draw. If we want to claim that the SGP is the best 15 riders in the world then we have to make sure that that is the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OGT Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/16/2023 at 8:05 AM, heathen52 said: Or wack a ball over a net and scream, Now I know Speedway in the UK is down and almost out, but I have never in all my life known anyone that plays Tennis let alone anyone that watches it except for the annual bash at SW19, yet we get daily updates on numerous media outlets, I guess Speedway fans don't have BBC accents . It's snobbery, MSM in this country doesn't like motorcycles or motorcycle sport. They only mention the TT if there's a fatality. BSB is well supported but is never mentioned, WSBK and MotoGP events are well attended but again, nothing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 22 hours ago, Gavan said: If you think there are more deserving riders then name them Not this tired old argument again.... The speedway world championships has never been about gathering the so called best riders in the world. It is about selling tickets and using venues where profits can be made. Riders can secure places with sponsorship, their nationality is a feature, this is why many riders have had repeated wild cards. In recent seasons it was clear Nicki P was int he top 15 in the world but he didn't get a place, ask yourself why. Others have qualified but due to circumstance not been included e.g. Smolinski a couple of years ago, ask yourself why. Nilsson qualified and at a recent GP was right up there but won't be in it again but he brought something new to watch, as did Thorsell and Lebedjevs in Sweden. New faces mix it up a bit. I'm totally bored with Madsen, he's as dull as, Janowski will never be champion and Woffinden's star is fizzling out. You may respond "didn't think you could name anyone better" but that's not the point I'm making. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 On 7/16/2023 at 9:02 AM, iainb said: 2 questions: 1) What are the race suits made of these days? They seem to tear more easily than they used to, I thought they were made from Kevlar 2) Who is the highest paid sportsman in Poland these days? I've got a gap in my records since Tony Millard left us And it also demonstrates how much more money riders have these days, years ago it would be one set of leathers for the season, maybe more, with a bit of duct tape covering any rips Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJC Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 31 minutes ago, Ghostwalker said: On a track Kim new very well but Kubera had never seen before. Put the qualifier on a track Kubera knows very well but Kim hasn't rifden on and the result had likely been the opposite. Kim complained after the Swedish final this year that he had a poor draw. That is also a problem with only having one qualifier final. If you are on a track that dont allow passning and where certain gates are impossible to gate from it doesnt matter how good you are if you get a poor draw. If we want to claim that the SGP is the best 15 riders in the world then we have to make sure that that is the case. I wouldn't say he knew it very well. Had probably ridden there three times before which were over 10 years ago. The track has changed quite a bit since then. Kubera had ridden there the year before in the GB Poland test match in bad weather and beat Bewley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 8 minutes ago, DJC said: I wouldn't say he knew it very well. Had probably ridden there three times before which were over 10 years ago. The track has changed quite a bit since then. Kubera had ridden there the year before in the GB Poland test match in bad weather and beat Bewley Exactly. When riders race across the nations it's clear to see who stands above but basing things just on one country is flawed. Kurtz showed both Emil and Doyle a clean pair of heels in Ht15 at their own track last week and is another who could mix it up in the GPs. Predictability is boring as hell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 48 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: Not this tired old argument again.... The speedway world championships has never been about gathering the so called best riders in the world. It is about selling tickets and using venues where profits can be made. Riders can secure places with sponsorship, their nationality is a feature, this is why many riders have had repeated wild cards. In recent seasons it was clear Nicki P was int he top 15 in the world but he didn't get a place, ask yourself why. Others have qualified but due to circumstance not been included e.g. Smolinski a couple of years ago, ask yourself why. Nilsson qualified and at a recent GP was right up there but won't be in it again but he brought something new to watch, as did Thorsell and Lebedjevs in Sweden. New faces mix it up a bit. I'm totally bored with Madsen, he's as dull as, Janowski will never be champion and Woffinden's star is fizzling out. You may respond "didn't think you could name anyone better" but that's not the point I'm making. We know why the Russians are not in it, but apart from them have we not got the best riders in it currently ? as i posted on another thread this morning we could have 4 new riders in it in 2024- 3 from the Challenge and 1 from the SEC. Maybe you can name the 4 who ‘ won’t be missed ‘ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 26 minutes ago, racers and royals said: We know why the Russians are not in it, but apart from them have we not got the best riders in it currently ? as i posted on another thread this morning we could have 4 new riders in it in 2024- 3 from the Challenge and 1 from the SEC. Maybe you can name the 4 who ‘ won’t be missed ‘ ? That'd be a start! Four who I wouldn't miss - Janowski, Dudek, Madsen, Woffinden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racers and royals Posted July 17, 2023 Author Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 32 minutes ago, SPEEDY69 said: That'd be a start! Four who I wouldn't miss - Janowski, Dudek, Madsen, Woffinden. I was going to give you a list of the non-GP riders in the challenge but on the thread you have named Becker, Kvech and Smolinski. Each to there own but not sure many would swap 3 for those 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phillipsr Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 29 minutes ago, racers and royals said: I was going to give you a list of the non-GP riders in the challenge but on the thread you have named Becker, Kvech and Smolinski. Each to there own but not sure many would swap 3 for those 3 Kubera, Drabik, Sayfutdinov, Laguta, Pedersen, theres a few others that would shake it up!! im sure the response will be that there not as good but who would of thought Holder Bewley etc would be in the top 6 in the world when they entered.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 1 minute ago, phillipsr said: Kubera, Drabik ... Yet who were the top 5 in yesterday's Polish Final? The current Polish GP riders (including Janowski and Dudek who many want to get rid of) and those spritely youngsters Hampel and Kolodziej. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 3 minutes ago, arnieg said: Yet who were the top 5 in yesterday's Polish Final? The current Polish GP riders (including Janowski and Dudek who many want to get rid of) and those spritely youngsters Hampel and Kolodziej. Kolodziej and Hampel remain good in Poland, the former definitely had merit to be in the GPs (wasn't he injured once qualified or did I dream that?). If all GPs were in Poland (we're getting there ) then they may remain contenders but for me the first two you mention have been in it a long time and will never be world champ so let's give someone else a go - surely one of the definitions of 'wild card'. Currently though, your face has to fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 46 minutes ago, racers and royals said: I was going to give you a list of the non-GP riders in the challenge but on the thread you have named Becker, Kvech and Smolinski. Each to there own but not sure many would swap 3 for those 3 Indeed, that's why they weren't wild card picks but I've never been one to follow the masses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPEEDY69 Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 17 minutes ago, phillipsr said: Kubera, Drabik, Sayfutdinov, Laguta, Pedersen, theres a few others that would shake it up!! im sure the response will be that there not as good but who would of thought Holder Bewley etc would be in the top 6 in the world when they entered.... That's right. I wouldn't have had Thorsell down to do much but he was in the mix on Saturday and to finish 11th was creditable, even though others kept trying to have him off! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OveFundinFan Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 5 hours ago, SPEEDY69 said: That's right. I wouldn't have had Thorsell down to do much but he was in the mix on Saturday and to finish 11th was creditable, even though others kept trying to have him off! Thing is with riders like Thorsell is that they can mix it in a one off, but mixing it at the top level for the GP season is another matter, not everyone can do it. Just a few years ago the names of Drabik and Smektala were being branded as ones that can take it to the big guns, just before them it was Lebedevs and Milik. Sometimes its better not to get what you wish for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthsayer Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 9 hours ago, OGT said: It's snobbery, MSM in this country doesn't like motorcycles or motorcycle sport. They only mention the TT if there's a fatality. BSB is well supported but is never mentioned, WSBK and MotoGP events are well attended but again, nothing. It's not snobbery, it's just numbers. The 'MSM' (as you call it) is all about getting the maximum number of eyeballs on their article, because that's what makes money. It's not about what they like. Fatalities create clickbait headlines, which get numbers, hence TT death articles are published. BSB is well supported, but on a typical sporting weekend I would doubt it would get in the top 20 of sporting events by attendance/viewership, probably not even the top 40. It's shallow but if speedway had enough fans to justify publishing articles then speedway articles would be published in your 'MSM'. The media is full of lowbrow activities, who get their share of voice purely because it makes commercial sense for that to be the case, or because they've paid to be there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim G Posted July 17, 2023 Report Share Posted July 17, 2023 11 minutes ago, truthsayer said: It's not snobbery, it's just numbers. The 'MSM' (as you call it) is all about getting the maximum number of eyeballs on their article, because that's what makes money. It's not about what they like. Fatalities create clickbait headlines, which get numbers, hence TT death articles are published. BSB is well supported, but on a typical sporting weekend I would doubt it would get in the top 20 of sporting events by attendance/viewership, probably not even the top 40. It's shallow but if speedway had enough fans to justify publishing articles then speedway articles would be published in your 'MSM'. The media is full of lowbrow activities, who get their share of voice purely because it makes commercial sense for that to be the case, or because they've paid to be there. BSB at Brands Hatch next weekend will definitely be in the top 20 attended sporting events in this country but the media is not interested in motorbike racing. When Carl Fogarty was at his peak drawing massive crowds in WSB he was hardly mentioned in the MSM. Wins a crap celebrity event and they are all over him. BBC News will always show some WSL football match in the round up even though hardly anyone is in the stadium just to come across as inclusive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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