Daniel Smith Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 (edited) (Bracket averages are rolling / team position averages) Belle Vue Aces: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Mark Lemon Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Birmingham Brummies: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Sam Ermolenko Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Ipswich Witches: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Richie Hawkins Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ King's Lynn Stars: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Rob Lyon Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Leicester Lions: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Stewart Dickson Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Oxford Spires: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Peter Schroeck Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Sheffield Tigers: 1. 2. 3. 4. 5. 6. 7. Team Manager: Simon Stead Ave: 00.00 (00.00) Remaining: 40.00 ________________________________ Edited 6 hours ago by Daniel Smith 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTT Posted November 24, 2022 Report Share Posted November 24, 2022 Bellego 5.80 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger Jacobs Posted December 26, 2022 Report Share Posted December 26, 2022 The Rising Star list: https://britishspeedway.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/2023-PL-Rising-Stars-1-1.pdf 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted December 26, 2022 Report Share Posted December 26, 2022 I'm not sure I believe this team building vs rider average malarky & fully expect to see Brennan beginning the season at reserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arnieg Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 9 hours ago, szkocjasid said: I'm not sure I believe this team building vs rider average malarky & fully expect to see Brennan beginning the season at reserve. I'm in agreement with you. But how will Brennan/Mountain/Hume's rolling averages work in 2023? After (say) 6 matches will they: 1) stay on starting average because in effect they have 'assessed' averages 2) have a GSA based on last 4 of 2022 and 6 from 2023. 3) have a GSA based on the six 2023 matches and 75% of the points scored from the 4 remaining 2022 matches? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 All three have valid (10 meeting) Rolling averages. 2023 Rolling Averages revert back to the 20 meetings criteria, so, after your 6 matches scenario, they will have a RA based on 16 meetings. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted December 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 Brennan is at reserve. In terms of rolling averages, it's the same as everyone else. After the first 2023 greensheets Brennan will likely move in to the top 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 (edited) 1 hour ago, Daniel Smith said: Brennan is at reserve. In terms of rolling averages, it's the same as everyone else. After the first 2023 greensheets Brennan will likely move in to the top 5 How can he be at reserve, his MA is higher than both Lidsey and Blodorn. Surely the 25% reduction is purely for team building purposes, his MA remains unchanged. Edited December 27, 2022 by Call me wolfie 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topaz325 Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 (edited) Lewis Kerr reserve for Sheffield ..... or possibly Bellego if averages change... Edited December 27, 2022 by topaz325 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Gambo said: All three have valid (10 meeting) Rolling averages. 2023 Rolling Averages revert back to the 20 meetings criteria, so, after your 6 matches scenario, they will have a RA based on 16 meetings. Very bizarre to make such a big thing of reducing the sample down to 10 through 2022 and then at the first opportunity switch back to 20 in 2023..... I believe it is the correct decision but why not just use a 20 meeting sample from the start 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gambo Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 minute ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: Very bizarre to make such a big thing of reducing the sample down to 10 through 2022 and then at the first opportunity switch back to 20 in 2023..... I believe it is the correct decision but why not just use a 20 meeting sample from the start If you use 20 meetings from the start of 2023, most averages would change from the published 10 match stats. Team places would be swapping before the season started! Riders who missed the 2022 season, (Rory Schlein for example) will start with his 17 meetings from 2021 stats. Rolling Average stats will not include any data from seasons prior to 2021. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, Gambo said: If you use 20 meetings from the start of 2023, most averages would change from the published 10 match stats. Team places would be swapping before the season started! Riders who missed the 2022 season, (Rory Schlein for example) will start with his 17 meetings from 2021 stats. Rolling Average stats will not include any data from seasons prior to 2021. I can see the logic if it has been a late change after team building has largely been completed Should really though have been something foreseen by August/September and simply ratified at the AGM within it causing problems The only teams affected would perhaps have been those manipulating the 10 match set to suit their 2023 plans..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronScorpion Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 17 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said: I can see the logic if it has been a late change after team building has largely been completed Should really though have been something foreseen by August/September and simply ratified at the AGM within it causing problems The only teams affected would perhaps have been those manipulating the 10 match set to suit their 2023 plans..... What!!!! similar to the Championship from 2H 2A back to 1H 1A because some teams running 2 teams didn't realise the could/will not fulfil all their fixtures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted December 27, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Call me wolfie said: How can he be at reserve, his MA is higher than both Lidsey and Blodorn. Surely the 25% reduction is purely for team building purposes, his MA remains unchanged. I actually agree, hence I'd placed him in the top 5, but apparently Mark Lemon confirmed Brennan will be starting at reserve. The 25% should be team building only. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 3 hours ago, Call me wolfie said: How can he be at reserve, his MA is higher than both Lidsey and Blodorn. Surely the 25% reduction is purely for team building purposes, his MA remains unchanged. It is much simpler to use just one average, meaning Brennan's team building ave would put him at reserve. I cannot personally remember any situation where the 2.5% reduction has led to a Brit with a lower average being ranked higher than a foreigner with an actual average for team positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 6 hours ago, arnieg said: I'm in agreement with you. But how will Brennan/Mountain/Hume's rolling averages work in 2023? After (say) 6 matches will they: 1) stay on starting average because in effect they have 'assessed' averages 2) have a GSA based on last 4 of 2022 and 6 from 2023. 3) have a GSA based on the six 2023 matches and 75% of the points scored from the 4 remaining 2022 matches? The 25% reduction works in the same way as any 2.5% reduction ever did - it's a Brits average to start the season on. As soon as they ride 1 match there average will be their rolling average counting 2022 & 2023 matches. From your example it would be number 2 (I've heard nothing official to say it's back to 20 match rolling aves in 2023) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 30 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: It is much simpler to use just one average, meaning Brennan's team building ave would put him at reserve. I cannot personally remember any situation where the 2.5% reduction has led to a Brit with a lower average being ranked higher than a foreigner with an actual average for team positions. King/Riss at Redcar in 2023 will test the theory as well..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call me wolfie Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 1 hour ago, szkocjasid said: It is much simpler to use just one average, meaning Brennan's team building ave would put him at reserve. I cannot personally remember any situation where the 2.5% reduction has led to a Brit with a lower average being ranked higher than a foreigner with an actual average for team positions. Just because it’s simpler, doesn’t make it right 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
szkocjasid Posted December 27, 2022 Report Share Posted December 27, 2022 6 hours ago, Call me wolfie said: Just because it’s simpler, doesn’t make it right But how does having an average used for team building but not team positioning "make it right"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Smith Posted December 28, 2022 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2022 22 minutes ago, szkocjasid said: But how does having an average used for team building but not team positioning "make it right"? Simply because it's his average. The advantage to Brennan & Belle Vue is already given with ¼ off his average. Without that advantage Belle Vue wouldn't have been able to put that team together or Brennan would have missed out completely. With that reduction, starting at reserve is also a 2nd advantage with a rider that is clearly at 2nd string level comfortably. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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