2023 National League Riders

[bigred]

On 12/5/2022 at 12:52 PM, szkocjasid said:

I suspect Connor Bailey would do what Max Clegg did last year, sign on an 8.5ish ave & finish above 11!

Is there any other sport that you get “punished” for doing well,Max’s average in both leagues have left him with no team place for 2023.How many other British lads are going to be left out.So long as the Aussie’s are looked after that’s fine……British speedway is a joke no wonder it’s on its backside.

[Fortythirtyeight]

10 minutes ago, bigred said:

Is there any other sport that you get “punished” for doing well,Max’s average in both leagues have left him with no team place for 2023.How many other British lads are going to be left out.So long as the Aussie’s are looked after that’s fine……British speedway is a joke no wonder it’s on its backside.

Nothing against Clegg, he can still do a job for any championship side, but he’s had 12 years in a ‘development’ league.

As for non brits in the NDL….this is a reflection on how many brits are taking up speedway , we can’t fill the teams we have and we have so few to start with.

[Diamonds85]

41 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Nothing against Clegg, he can still do a job for any championship side, but he’s had 12 years in a ‘development’ league.

As for non brits in the NDL….this is a reflection on how many brits are taking up speedway , we can’t fill the teams we have and we have so few to start with.

I don't understand this comment at all? We have an abundance of young British riders coming through and if the NL was set up as such, we could fill 14 teams with the available riders... If the NL was about developing riders who were new to the sport/ANY young British rider/riders doing it for a bit of fun at the bottom level/older riders at the tail end of their career passing on knowledge to the young'uns... Could EASILY have a large league of British only riders... But alas, the rules and costs get in the way of this

[Fortythirtyeight]

16 minutes ago, Diamonds85 said:

I don't understand this comment at all? We have an abundance of young British riders coming through and if the NL was set up as such, we could fill 14 teams with the available riders... If the NL was about developing riders who were new to the sport/ANY young British rider/riders doing it for a bit of fun at the bottom level/older riders at the tail end of their career passing on knowledge to the young'uns... Could EASILY have a large league of British only riders... But alas, the rules and costs get in the way of this

Then you need to open your eyes.

The British youth rounds are the lowest in numbers there have been for years as very few are taking up the sport. Yes, there’s few good ones coming through , mostly now moving into 250’s , but not many, and where are there replacements? You need to look at the ages of those that are around , not many of team racing age. One club who enquired about running in NDL was informed they probably wouldn’t be considered as there wasn’t enough riders of the right quality to fill another team. Yes, the rules are an issue but more so the lack of proper schools where kids can get on a bike and try the sport.

[Sings4Speedway]

1 hour ago, bigred said:

Is there any other sport that you get “punished” for doing well,Max’s average in both leagues have left him with no team place for 2023.How many other British lads are going to be left out.So long as the Aussie’s are looked after that’s fine……British speedway is a joke no wonder it’s on its backside.

Its been a farce for years really that Brits especially those on a 3.5-5 point CL average struggle to get places whilst there is always a string of Aussies signed up (with all the additional costs associated) if only a little of that funding was sprinkled around the Brits perhaps there would be a bit more progression.

[Sings4Speedway]

20 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

Then you need to open your eyes.

The British youth rounds are the lowest in numbers there have been for years as very few are taking up the sport. Yes, there’s few good ones coming through , mostly now moving into 250’s , but not many, and where are there replacements? You need to look at the ages of those that are around , not many of team racing age. One club who enquired about running in NDL was informed they probably wouldn’t be considered as there wasn’t enough riders of the right quality to fill another team. Yes, the rules are an issue but more so the lack of proper schools where kids can get on a bike and try the sport.

The big problem is could you genuinely recommend to anyone with kids to get them a speedway bike and into the sport? Ever increasing costs and regulations with ever decreasing venues to ride/practice and find out if they even like it / are any good at it. Fortunately there is an emerging crop on the 125's but its going to be a good while before they are league age and what state will the sport be in then. How can any parent look at something seriously if there are big question marks over its existence in 15 years time.

[Fortythirtyeight]

33 minutes ago, Sings4Speedway said:

Its been a farce for years really that Brits especially those on a 3.5-5 point CL average struggle to get places whilst there is always a string of Aussies signed up (with all the additional costs associated) if only a little of that funding was sprinkled around the Brits perhaps there would be a bit more progression.

What ‘additional costs’ ? If the club has a permit in existence then there aren’t any. They get the same points money / basic wage guarantee, most are put up as guests by club hosts at no cost to the club so no different to equivalent brits. If anything they are willing to put up with more hardships to try and make it than a lot of Brit youngsters who some times demand way more than they are currently worth but I do agree, the rules with averages dont help the middle order riders, perhaps grading is the fairer way ?

[Mr Blobby]

1 hour ago, Diamonds85 said:

I don't understand this comment at all? We have an abundance of young British riders coming through and if the NL was set up as such, we could fill 14 teams with the available riders... If the NL was about developing riders who were new to the sport/ANY young British rider/riders doing it for a bit of fun at the bottom level/older riders at the tail end of their career passing on knowledge to the young'uns... Could EASILY have a large league of British only riders... But alas, the rules and costs get in the way of this

Try telling the Armadale devils that. No even close to enough riders good enough to put together 7/8 competitive sides in the NDL.  
 

So not really sure where you’re getting that from.

[Diamonds85]

I'm lost... How much brighter do you want British speedway to be?? Let's take a look at how many let's say Bewley and under age riders there are kicking about

1		Dan Bewley	20/05/1999
2		Jacob Clouting	28/08/1999
3		Matt Marson	15/03/2000
4		Josh Warren	12/04/2000
5		Mason Watson	07/08/2000
6		Jack Parkinson Blackburn	02/09/2000
7		Sam Bebee	18/10/2000
8		Henry Atkins	02/01/2001
9		Tom Brennan	02/07/2001
10		Jordan Jenkins	02/08/2001
11		Kyle Bickley	27/02/2002
12		Anders Rowe	09/05/2002
13		Kyran Lyden	18/05/2002
14		Dan Gilkes	21/05/2002
15		Drew Kemp	11/08/2002
16		Connor Bailey	13/08/2002
17		Jason Edwards	14/09/2002
18		Leon Flint	22/02/2003
19		Kai Ward	29/04/2003
20		Gregor Millar	07/12/2003
21		Elliot Kelly	22/01/2004
22		Jordan Palin	19/02/2004
23		Nathan Ablitt	03/03/2004
24		Jake Mulford	04/03/2004
25		Harry McGurk	04/03/2004
26		Dan Thompson	22/04/2004
27		Joe Thompson	22/04/2004
28		Eli Meadows	23/04/2004
29		Mickie Simpson	21/05/2004
30		Sam Hagon	10/10/2004
31		Archie Freeman	29/11/2004
32		Sam McGurk	01/01/2006
33		Freddy Hodder	18/04/2006
34		Ben Trigger	27/05/2006
35		Vinnie Foord	13/07/2006
36		Ace Pijper	06/09/2006
37		Jody Scott	14/02/2007
38		Max Perry	29/04/2007
39		Luke Harrison	15/06/2007
40		Max James	05/07/2007
41		Ashton Boughen	21/08/2007

Every single one of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in the BRITISH development league, regardless of average, attitude, height, hair length, toe count whatever... They're young British riders and they deserve every single opportunity they get to race and show their worth.

41 riders CURRENTLY riding in the British leagues who are younger than Dan Bewley (I may have missed some, and yes you could argue some (JPB) aren't riding anymore, but he seems to come and go and you could say some riders don't deserve to be on this list, but that's how so many young lads have been frozen out in the past, they've been discounted and not given the opportunities they deserve).

39 (Minue Bewley and JPB)/7 = nearly 6 full teams of ONLY under Bewley age... Not to mention all the other NL riders who are aged above who deserve a spot in the NL just as much... It's not the lack of riders that is the problem IMO, it's the rules of the league. The NL needs to be strengthened, it's too far away from the CL level, numerous young riders throughout the years haven't been able to make such a big leap and have been frozen out and lost to the sport... Open your eyes!!

There's 5 riders born in 2007, 5 riders born in 2006, 11 riders born in 2004... All of these riders are still teenagers!! I would say British speedway hasn't looked this bright in decades?? Obviously there's way more Poles and quite possibly more Danes about, but I refuse to believe there's that many young Swedes or Aussies... I do look into that sort of thing because that's the kind of thing that (sadly) fascinates me... Who will be the big nation of the future...?

That's not even including some of the younger riders who are only a year or two out.

William Cairns

Billy Budd

Ashton Vale

Jody Scott

Stene Pijper

I'm sure there's more...

Who knows which 4-8 year olds are going about their day to day lives without realizing that they're the next big British speedway star... Time will tell.

As you can probably tell I'm at work and there's not a lot going on...

5 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

Try telling the Armadale devils that. No even close to enough riders good enough to put together 7/8 competitive sides in the NDL.  
 

So not really sure where you’re getting that from.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Edinburgh's main issue is funds and geography...?

[Fortythirtyeight]

13 minutes ago, Diamonds85 said:

I'm lost... How much brighter do you want British speedway to be?? Let's take a look at how many let's say Bewley and under age riders there are kicking about

1		Dan Bewley	20/05/1999
2		Jacob Clouting	28/08/1999
3		Matt Marson	15/03/2000
4		Josh Warren	12/04/2000
5		Mason Watson	07/08/2000
6		Jack Parkinson Blackburn	02/09/2000
7		Sam Bebee	18/10/2000
8		Henry Atkins	02/01/2001
9		Tom Brennan	02/07/2001
10		Jordan Jenkins	02/08/2001
11		Kyle Bickley	27/02/2002
12		Anders Rowe	09/05/2002
13		Kyran Lyden	18/05/2002
14		Dan Gilkes	21/05/2002
15		Drew Kemp	11/08/2002
16		Connor Bailey	13/08/2002
17		Jason Edwards	14/09/2002
18		Leon Flint	22/02/2003
19		Kai Ward	29/04/2003
20		Gregor Millar	07/12/2003
21		Elliot Kelly	22/01/2004
22		Jordan Palin	19/02/2004
23		Nathan Ablitt	03/03/2004
24		Jake Mulford	04/03/2004
25		Harry McGurk	04/03/2004
26		Dan Thompson	22/04/2004
27		Joe Thompson	22/04/2004
28		Eli Meadows	23/04/2004
29		Mickie Simpson	21/05/2004
30		Sam Hagon	10/10/2004
31		Archie Freeman	29/11/2004
32		Sam McGurk	01/01/2006
33		Freddy Hodder	18/04/2006
34		Ben Trigger	27/05/2006
35		Vinnie Foord	13/07/2006
36		Ace Pijper	06/09/2006
37		Jody Scott	14/02/2007
38		Max Perry	29/04/2007
39		Luke Harrison	15/06/2007
40		Max James	05/07/2007
41		Ashton Boughen	21/08/2007

Every single one of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in the BRITISH development league, regardless of average, attitude, height, hair length, toe count whatever... They're young British riders and they deserve every single opportunity they get to race and show their worth.

41 riders CURRENTLY riding in the British leagues who are younger than Dan Bewley (I may have missed some, and yes you could argue some (JPB) aren't riding anymore, but he seems to come and go and you could say some riders don't deserve to be on this list, but that's how so many young lads have been frozen out in the past, they've been discounted and not given the opportunities they deserve).

39 (Minue Bewley and JPB)/7 = nearly 6 full teams of ONLY under Bewley age... Not to mention all the other NL riders who are aged above who deserve a spot in the NL just as much... It's not the lack of riders that is the problem IMO, it's the rules of the league. The NL needs to be strengthened, it's too far away from the CL level, numerous young riders throughout the years haven't been able to make such a big leap and have been frozen out and lost to the sport... Open your eyes!!

There's 5 riders born in 2007, 5 riders born in 2006, 11 riders born in 2004... All of these riders are still teenagers!! I would say British speedway hasn't looked this bright in decades?? Obviously there's way more Poles and quite possibly more Danes about, but I refuse to believe there's that many young Swedes or Aussies... I do look into that sort of thing because that's the kind of thing that (sadly) fascinates me... Who will be the big nation of the future...?

That's not even including some of the younger riders who are only a year or two out.

William Cairns

Billy Budd

Ashton Vale

Jody Scott

Stene Pijper

I'm sure there's more...

Who knows which 4-8 year olds are going about their day to day lives without realizing that they're the next big British speedway star... Time will tell.

As you can probably tell I'm at work and there's not a lot going on...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Edinburgh's main issue is funds and geography...?

But all of those are in teams now ! Where are  these others you seem to think are waiting in the wings  for the ‘14 ‘ teams your producing out of thin air ?

[Diamonds85]

9 minutes ago, Fortythirtyeight said:

But all of those are in teams now ! Where are  these others you seem to think are waiting in the wings  for the ‘14 ‘ teams your producing out of thin air ?

Not all of them are in NL teams though?? That's my point, if this is a BRITISH development league, all of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in it, regardless of how good they are... I can't for the life of me think of any sport who doesn't let an u-21 play/ride whatever in a development league because they're too good.

If the rules of the NL were as such, there's would be no issues with a big league whatsoever

If the race format was as such so heatleaders vs heatleaders; reserves vs reserves/second strings; second strings vs second strings/heatleaders. Something I have gone on about in the past also, then there wouldn't be any Kyran Lyden vs Anders Rowe races. It would be Kyran Lyden vs Gregor Millar in one race and Anders Rowe vs Drew Kemp in the next, all young rider who deserve a chance, but I agree shouldn't race eachother. As long as there are 4 riders in each race of similar standard to eachother, the race will be good.

But of course I get shot down every time I talk about this because no one can face change, which is what British speedway desperately needs...

Edited December 20, 2022 by Diamonds85

[Mr Blobby]

46 minutes ago, Diamonds85 said:

I'm lost... How much brighter do you want British speedway to be?? Let's take a look at how many let's say Bewley and under age riders there are kicking about

1		Dan Bewley	20/05/1999
2		Jacob Clouting	28/08/1999
3		Matt Marson	15/03/2000
4		Josh Warren	12/04/2000
5		Mason Watson	07/08/2000
6		Jack Parkinson Blackburn	02/09/2000
7		Sam Bebee	18/10/2000
8		Henry Atkins	02/01/2001
9		Tom Brennan	02/07/2001
10		Jordan Jenkins	02/08/2001
11		Kyle Bickley	27/02/2002
12		Anders Rowe	09/05/2002
13		Kyran Lyden	18/05/2002
14		Dan Gilkes	21/05/2002
15		Drew Kemp	11/08/2002
16		Connor Bailey	13/08/2002
17		Jason Edwards	14/09/2002
18		Leon Flint	22/02/2003
19		Kai Ward	29/04/2003
20		Gregor Millar	07/12/2003
21		Elliot Kelly	22/01/2004
22		Jordan Palin	19/02/2004
23		Nathan Ablitt	03/03/2004
24		Jake Mulford	04/03/2004
25		Harry McGurk	04/03/2004
26		Dan Thompson	22/04/2004
27		Joe Thompson	22/04/2004
28		Eli Meadows	23/04/2004
29		Mickie Simpson	21/05/2004
30		Sam Hagon	10/10/2004
31		Archie Freeman	29/11/2004
32		Sam McGurk	01/01/2006
33		Freddy Hodder	18/04/2006
34		Ben Trigger	27/05/2006
35		Vinnie Foord	13/07/2006
36		Ace Pijper	06/09/2006
37		Jody Scott	14/02/2007
38		Max Perry	29/04/2007
39		Luke Harrison	15/06/2007
40		Max James	05/07/2007
41		Ashton Boughen	21/08/2007

Every single one of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in the BRITISH development league, regardless of average, attitude, height, hair length, toe count whatever... They're young British riders and they deserve every single opportunity they get to race and show their worth.

41 riders CURRENTLY riding in the British leagues who are younger than Dan Bewley (I may have missed some, and yes you could argue some (JPB) aren't riding anymore, but he seems to come and go and you could say some riders don't deserve to be on this list, but that's how so many young lads have been frozen out in the past, they've been discounted and not given the opportunities they deserve).

39 (Minue Bewley and JPB)/7 = nearly 6 full teams of ONLY under Bewley age... Not to mention all the other NL riders who are aged above who deserve a spot in the NL just as much... It's not the lack of riders that is the problem IMO, it's the rules of the league. The NL needs to be strengthened, it's too far away from the CL level, numerous young riders throughout the years haven't been able to make such a big leap and have been frozen out and lost to the sport... Open your eyes!!

There's 5 riders born in 2007, 5 riders born in 2006, 11 riders born in 2004... All of these riders are still teenagers!! I would say British speedway hasn't looked this bright in decades?? Obviously there's way more Poles and quite possibly more Danes about, but I refuse to believe there's that many young Swedes or Aussies... I do look into that sort of thing because that's the kind of thing that (sadly) fascinates me... Who will be the big nation of the future...?

That's not even including some of the younger riders who are only a year or two out.

William Cairns

Billy Budd

Ashton Vale

Jody Scott

Stene Pijper

I'm sure there's more...

Who knows which 4-8 year olds are going about their day to day lives without realizing that they're the next big British speedway star... Time will tell.

As you can probably tell I'm at work and there's not a lot going on...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Edinburgh's main issue is funds and geography...?

How many of them are actually any good and going to make Ito it of a championship reserve or 2nd string role? Maybe a couple. 
 

Geography mainly is the issue as riders don’t want to travel. Could probably put a 7 together but wouldn’t be competitive at all.

[Diamonds85]

3 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

How many of them are actually any good and going to make Ito it of a championship reserve or 2nd string role? Maybe a couple. 
 

Geography mainly is the issue as riders don’t want to travel. Could probably put a 7 together but wouldn’t be competitive at all.

But does every rider who ever put their leg over a bike need to make to to the CL and above... A Development league needs riders to pad it out, like the Ben Morley's of the future. Not everyone is going to make it, but why should they not be allowed to ride and enjoy the sport just because they haven't made it...? That's why some riders chuck the towel in, they lose enjoyment out of it because there's always this drama of who's going to be the next big thing and who isn't. I'm speaking first hand from experience here, me and many others before me have given up because we were classed as 'not good enough anymore' because we weren't the next Tai Woffinden, it's ridiculous.

Plus... How do you know who is and who isn't going to make it until you've given them a chance, and I don't mean one or two seasons in the NL then throw them in the bin, I mean a proper stint with a bit of stability. Who knew that Jason Doyle was going to be world champion until his late 20s... If he was British he'd have been thrown in the bin years before that happened and no one would be the wiser.

[Diamonds85]

24 minutes ago, Mr Blobby said:

Geography mainly is the issue as riders don’t want to travel. Could probably put a 7 together but wouldn’t be competitive at all.

Which riders would you say are in the run in for a Devils spot then? I imagine the Millars at reserve, Josh Embleton would jump at the chance... It's the top end yous are struggling with I guess??

I personally can't wait to come to Edinburgh next season, it's a track that's completely evaded me somehow, despite being to the city numerous times, but I want to make sure I get up there next season, because I thought at one point this winter I was never going to get the chance... Looking forward 

[phillwhitewasmad]

39 minutes ago, Diamonds85 said:

Not all of them are in NL teams though?? That's my point, if this is a BRITISH development league, all of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in it, regardless of how good they are... I can't for the life of me think of any sport who doesn't let an u-21 play/ride whatever in a development league because they're too good.

If the rules of the NL were as such, there's would be no issues with a big league whatsoever

If the race format was as such so heatleaders vs heatleaders; reserves vs reserves/second strings; second strings vs second strings/heatleaders. Something I have gone on about in the past also, then there wouldn't be any Kyran Lyden vs Anders Rowe races. It would be Kyran Lyden vs Gregor Millar in one race and Anders Rowe vs Drew Kemp in the next, all young rider who deserve a chance, but I agree shouldn't race eachother. As long as there are 4 riders in each race of similar standard to eachother, the race will be good.

But of course I get shot down every time I talk about this because no one can face change, which is what British speedway desperately needs...

Fantastic post I personally believe riders should be graded at the start of the year for team allocation and should be regraded at the halfway stage of the season. With riders only being able to go up or down 1 grade regardless of the points they are averaging.
exactly as you say there should never be a kyran v anders race if one is a heat leader and the other a reserve should be heat leaders v heat leaders and heat leaders v second strings. The others should then be second strings v second strings , reserve's v reserves and reserves v second strings. Riders should race the grade above or below only . Grading should be A heat leaders ,B second strings , C reserves , D reserves in first season or not achieved a 3 point real time average during previous season. D graded riders should stay at that grade all year 

[Diamonds85]

19 minutes ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Fantastic post I personally believe riders should be graded at the start of the year for team allocation and should be regraded at the halfway stage of the season. With riders only being able to go up or down 1 grade regardless of the points they are averaging.
exactly as you say there should never be a kyran v anders race if one is a heat leader and the other a reserve should be heat leaders v heat leaders and heat leaders v second strings. The others should then be second strings v second strings , reserve's v reserves and reserves v second strings. Riders should race the grade above or below only . Grading should be A heat leaders ,B second strings , C reserves , D reserves in first season or not achieved a 3 point real time average during previous season. D graded riders should stay at that grade all year 

Very similar to how the Danish league runs... So we're not talking complete bo!!ocks... People are just scared of change.

Tbh the issue of number 1s vs number 7s isn't an NL issue, only every league needs restructuring imo... Watching Robert Lambert or Steve Worrall in the same race as Danny Phillips at Brough was incredibly boring at times... Honestly I think this is one of the biggest issues with British speedway, but no one will listen

Edited December 20, 2022 by Diamonds85

[Mr Blobby]

1 hour ago, Diamonds85 said:

Which riders would you say are in the run in for a Devils spot then? I imagine the Millars at reserve, Josh Embleton would jump at the chance... It's the top end yous are struggling with I guess??

I personally can't wait to come to Edinburgh next season, it's a track that's completely evaded me somehow, despite being to the city numerous times, but I want to make sure I get up there next season, because I thought at one point this winter I was never going to get the chance... Looking forward 

Top and middle order, well a team that won’t get humped every week tbh. Both millars have decided not to ride NDL this year and are just doing NJL instead. Embo first name on the team sheet for me. 

[phillwhitewasmad]

Looking at the list 2004 seems to of nee a productive year for riders. With at least 9 of those riders coming through Neil Vatcher's youth program, all the other years seem to have similar numbers, 

with the increased points limit the league is actually easier to get into for higher average riders than the last couple of years even if a team picks a 12 point rider still scope to have a decent team .

would also like to know the team who was interested in joining or is it just hear say.

[Fortythirtyeight]

4 hours ago, Diamonds85 said:

Not all of them are in NL teams though?? That's my point, if this is a BRITISH development league, all of these riders should be given the opportunity to ride in it, regardless of how good they are... I can't for the life of me think of any sport who doesn't let an u-21 play/ride whatever in a development league because they're too good.

If the rules of the NL were as such, there's would be no issues with a big league whatsoever

If the race format was as such so heatleaders vs heatleaders; reserves vs reserves/second strings; second strings vs second strings/heatleaders. Something I have gone on about in the past also, then there wouldn't be any Kyran Lyden vs Anders Rowe races. It would be Kyran Lyden vs Gregor Millar in one race and Anders Rowe vs Drew Kemp in the next, all young rider who deserve a chance, but I agree shouldn't race eachother. As long as there are 4 riders in each race of similar standard to eachother, the race will be good.

But of course I get shot down every time I talk about this because no one can face change, which is what British speedway desperately needs...

Might be because out of 40 you have listed only one doesn’t ride in a team and that’s because he’s packed it in.

As for some of them listed,  NO they shouldn’t be in a development league as they are beyond that level and , by their own admission, get nothing out of it….read Jason Edwards piece in the S/S . Anders Rowe rides in Poland , the Premiership and the championship and you want him to ride in the NDL !

You said there was enough riders to fill 14 teams, there isn’t !

Edited December 20, 2022 by Fortythirtyeight

[Fortythirtyeight]

2 hours ago, phillwhitewasmad said:

Looking at the list 2004 seems to of nee a productive year for riders. With at least 9 of those riders coming through Neil Vatcher's youth program, all the other years seem to have similar numbers, 

with the increased points limit the league is actually easier to get into for higher average riders than the last couple of years even if a team picks a 12 point rider still scope to have a decent team .

would also like to know the team who was interested in joining or is it just hear say.

I’ll tell you when I see you next but you were interested in joining them when it was first put forward.